Struggling to get heat into Tyres!

[Alex Knight]

Hi all,

I've just done a (wet) trackday at Bedford Autodrome SEN Circuit.

The car ran faultlessly all day long (approx 130 miles on track), but for some reason I was really struggling to get any heat into both front and rear tyres.

The balance itself was super-oversteery at both low and high speeds. I can deal with the oversteer, but in general I had a real lack of grip accross both axles and I suspect it was because I could not generate heat into the tyres. Even after approx 30 laps (2.7 miles per lap) of oversteering on every corner (turn in, mid corner and exit!   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  ) the rear tyres were absolutely stone cold.

I have had my geometry set recently and all was exactly as I wanted it.

I started the day with 28psi rear and 26 psi front. During the day I dropped the pressures to 22psi rear and 20psi front, and it felt about 5% better, but the tyres were still stone cold.

I'm running Bridgestone Potenza RE002 Adrenaline Tyres front and rear, 205/50/R15 rear and 195/50/R15 front. It's a relatively soft compound, so I would expect some warmth?

I suspect that the balance of the car in the dry would be superb, but in the wet it was borderline psychotic! The most surprising was huge turn-in oversteer going through the 'Follow-Through' section, wihch really upset the balance and left me chasing the throttle throughout the rest of the left-right.

I'm running a stock 2ZZ and Corolla T-Sport gearbox (open differential).

Any ideas/similar experiences?

[dj2k21]

Hi all,

I've just done a (wet) trackday at Bedford Autodrome SEN Circuit.

The car ran faultlessly all day long (approx 130 miles on track), but for some reason I was really struggling to get any heat into both front and rear tyres.

The balance itself was super-oversteery at both low and high speeds. I can deal with the oversteer, but in general I had a real lack of grip accross both axles and I suspect it was because I could not generate heat into the tyres. Even after approx 30 laps (2.7 miles per lap) of oversteering on every corner (turn in, mid corner and exit!   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  ) the rear tyres were absolutely stone cold.

I have had my geometry set recently and all was exactly as I wanted it.

I started the day with 28psi rear and 26 psi front. During the day I dropped the pressures to 22psi rear and 20psi front, and it felt about 5% better, but the tyres were still stone cold.

I'm running Bridgestone Potenza RE002 Adrenaline Tyres front and rear, 205/50/R15 rear and 195/50/R15 front. It's a relatively soft compound, so I would expect some warmth?

I suspect that the balance of the car in the dry would be superb, but in the wet it was borderline psychotic! The most surprising was huge turn-in oversteer going through the 'Follow-Through' section, wihch really upset the balance and left me chasing the throttle throughout the rest of the left-right.

I'm running a stock 2ZZ and Corolla T-Sport gearbox (open differential).

Any ideas/similar experiences?

I've done a fair bit of track racing admittedly on motorbikes because I used to race them but I've done it in my car too. A softer compound certainly helps, I also filled my tyres with nitrogen too which made absolutely no difference on the road but on track whether it was psychological or not I don't know but it did seem to help during cornering. Also a few burnouts helped me to get warmth into the tyres. Use your sighting lap before the race to weave frantically side to side luke you see in F1 as that also makes a difference.  Other than buying a set of tyre warmers there's not much more you can do mate.

[James and his MR2]

Are you supposed to use lower tyre pressures for track driving/racing?

[dj2k21]

It depends what works to be honest.  The majority of test days are used to determine what works best for you. Theory is the less pressure you have the more rubber on the track but there is a fine line where lower pressures cause the car the be slower too. It's all about testing them mate

[steve b]

More toe in at both ends will heat them up quick, will muller them on a dry road though and make it more twitchy.  How worn are they if little tread left will be even harder to warm them up.

[Alex Knight]

More toe in will make it even keener to oversteer!

Don't think I want that just yet.

I'll try it on a dry track soon, and see how the balance is.

The tyres are only <2K miles old, plenty of depth in the tread blocks to get them moving round.

[shnazzle]

What about using the brakes along with weaving? Surely the brakes can be used as little heaters to warm the tyres from the middle out.

This worked alright on a FWD....

[Alex Knight]

I tried everything. I even tried smoking the back wheels all the way through 2nd and 3rd gear, but nope. Stone cold.

It was sliding way more than any weaving would have an effect, but still nothing.

[nathanMR2]

Admittedly I know little about this but for some reason tyres seem to be screaming out at me for some reason. Maybe it's time to choose a different rubber?

[shnazzle]

Admittedly I know little about this but for some reason tyres seem to be screaming out at me for some reason. Maybe it's time to choose a different rubber?

Indeed. If RE002s are anything like RE001s, they'll be "fun" in the wet anyway.

Tried something like Falkens? 453? Or the lovely AD08 Yokos   s:) s:)  GY Eagles will give you heaps of grip on wet corners and are soft compound. Slow you down a bit on straights though, tiny bit.

[ChrisGB]

With a dry optimised tread pattern and hard compound, they are going to stay stone cold. If you had them in warmers they would most likely go cold within half a lap. Tread wear is 220, which is soft in road car terms but would indicate a very hard compound in track terms. Toyo R888 have a 100 tread wear rating and you need to be quite brutal to get them warm in the wet. They are pretty good in the wet, the compound seems to work well even on wet winter roads, but wear is high. My current rears have 2600 miles on them (all on road but fun driving) and are down to 2.5mm and starting to feel a bit twitchy in the wet now.

Geometry wise, I am running 22" total toe in at the rear and 11' at the front which is slight, but it keeps temps even and warm enough in the wet.

[ElliottTennis]

If you need heat you need to INCREASE psi not reduce.

A higher psi will reach an optimum temperature quicker but could "go off" if they get too hot.

other things to adjust is ride height in wet, we also used to adjust the track, wider at front narrower at rear, or soften springs. Obviously what would make the biggest difference is some track tires designed for the conditions on the day!