Caliper refurbishment, brake hoses and fluid!

[Anonymous]

caliper off car, hose off car, hose onto car, caliper onto car, hose onto caliper.......

repeat  s:) s:)

[Joesson]

What I assume to be OE hoses have a small clip at about mid point of the hose length that attaches to the shock absorber.
Has any body reused or replaced these on new hoses or are the new hoses left to hang free?

[Jandaw]

Personally I would clamp the OE flexi before switching the callipers.
Before fitting the new calliper make sure the coupling to the rigid pipe can be freed off and the mid point support is undone.
New calliper on then loose fit new flexi, then switch top connection to rigid.
The top fixing bracket has an oval hole with a matching fixing on the OE flexi. My HEL flexies did not fit perfectly but are ok.
I intended taking it up with HEL but haven't got round to it yet. They were spec'd as MR2 Mk3.

One reason for not allowing the fluid reservoir to completely empty is that, apparently the seals can flip and that means a new master cylinder. (so I've been told)
All good fun, wish I lived a bit closer.

[B42]

Tricky1138 just to avoid you worrying...
 
Master cylinder seals flipping on modern ABS cars is rare. I've changed all four of my calipers since buying my Roadster in 2003 - without problems. Seal flipping - although rare - is caused by *REVERSING the hydraulic pressure flow in the system.( nothing to do with keeping the the fluid reservoir topped).

When a piston is forced *back into a caliper, to install new pads, without undoing the bleed nipple to release the hydraulic pressure there's a minute chance that the reverse hydraulic pressure generated could flip a seal.

However, given that most people don't bother to open the bleed nipple when fitting new pads it's obviously a rare occurrance!! Nevertheless it IS good practice to release pressure using the nipple when fitting new pads. As you're fitting new calipers you've no chance of generating reverse pressure...as you'll be busy topping up the reservoir and bleeding the new calipers  s:) s:)  Good luck!

Dave

[B42]

A couple more points tricky...

Don't play around with the handbrake mechanism before fitting!

Do clean out the slider holes and clean the pins on the pad carrier unit. I use a SMALL amount of red rubber grease to prevent the protective boots from swelling. Smear a little inside the top of the slider hole PRIOR to replacing the boot . Then add just a thin coat on the sliders themselves. (coating the sliders instead of the holes will simply result in the lubricant being removed from the pin as it passes through the rubber bellows!)

Also, despite, initially, being told I needed new crush washers to attach banjo bolt to caliper body... the local auto parts store said no need...and none of the calipers I've done have had any fluid leaks at banjo/caliper body joint...



Hope this is of help!

Dave

[AndyM]

Also, despite, initially, being told I needed new crush washers to attach banjo bolt to caliper body... the local auto parts store said no need...and none of the calipers I've done have had any fluid leaks at banjo/caliper body joint...

You may well be able to get away with it but having just paid about £2 for enough to do the lot it's not a massive expense for extra peace of mind in my opinion.

[B42]

Quite right AndyM.
However, my point was that if thrifty HASN'T got the washers (given that my local auto parts guys don't bother stocking them as apparently mechanics won't spend £2 on a set) then he shouldn't fret...as  the worst that can happen - if the banjo bolt is tightened to correct torque - is a very slight weep of fluid...
Banjo bolt torque setting is: 22ft.lbs

[AndyM]

True, I think the HEL lines come with new crush washers anyway.  s:) s:)

[B42]

That's good to know. Here's hoping Thrifty's  w/e brake project is trouble free!

[tricky1138]

That's good to know. Here's hoping Thrifty's  w/e brake project is trouble free!

Anything but trouble free!   s:evil: :evil: s:evil:  

Brake hoses won't come free from fixings and have started to round the nut! That was my fault as I couldn't find my 10mm brake spanner and all my mates brake spanners are imperial so was just using an ordinary spanner!

So decided just to leave hoses and just do calipers! Loosened banjo bolt ok. Caliper slider bolt ok! Carrier bolts were a bit of a pain but the hammer fixed that!  s:scared: :scared: s:scared:  

Then there was the handbrake pins! No amount of persuasion would move them! Soaking in plus gas made no difference! Hitting with hammer didn't move them either!  So in the end have had to angle grind them flush and prise the cable off!

7 hours later they're off and new ones on. Even the brake pads fought back putting them on! Worst design ever in my opinion!

So just to bleed tomorrow and reattach handbrake - will a nut and bolt suffice as obviously the pin is no more!

How hard can it be!?  s:roll: :roll: s:roll:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[B42]

That's a shame. Sounds like you've had a real b****** of a day. I think using a nut and bolt will work as a TEMP fix instead of a pin and clip. I'd put a couple of washers on either end...and maybe use a locking nut. But I'd replace pins and clips asap...just to be on the safe side!!

[tricky1138]

That's a shame. Sounds like you've had a real b****** of a day. I think using a nut and bolt will work as a TEMP fix instead of a pin and clip. I'd put a couple of washers on either end...and maybe use a locking nut. But I'd replace pins and clips asap...just to be on the safe side!!

Oh yeah, it was one of them days!   s:( s:(  

And yeah, plan was 2 washers and a lock nut, and a temporary fix.   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[tricky1138]

Oh and just a quick question before I start again in the morning!

Does anyone have the torque settings to hand?

Backing plate to carrier.
Slider bolt.
Banjo bolt. Edit - 22 lb ft.

Thanks.

Oh and order of bleeding?   s:) s:)

[AndyM]

Think these are right...

FRONT
Backing plate to carrier: 109Nm
Slider installation bolt: 34Nm
Banjo bolt: 30Nm

REAR
Backing plate to carrier: 59Nm
Slider bolt: 20Nm
Banjo bolt: 30Nm

[B42]

Well done for sticking with it, Thrifty, hopefully this will be your final job before getting out on a run (cut and pasted courtesy of a posting by Roger!)

1. CHECK PARKING BRAKE LEVER TRAVEL
Pull the parking brake lever all the way up, and count the number
of clicks.
Parking brake lever travel at 196 N (20 kgf, 44.1 lbf):
5 – 8 clicks
If incorrect, adjust the parking brake.
2. IF NECESSARY, ADJUST PARKING BRAKE
(a) Remove the console box.
(b) Loosen the lock nut and loosen the adjusting nut until the
left and right parking brake cranks touch the stopper pin.
(c) Start the engine and depress the brake pedal with the
thread force at about 490 N (50 kgf, 110 lbf) for 10 times.
(d) Tighten the adjusting nut until the cable has no looseness.
(e) Pull the parking brake lever up strongly once.
(f) Release the parking brake lever.
(g) Turn the adjusting nut until the lever travel is correct.
(h) Tighten the lock nut.
Torque: 5.4 N·m (55 kgf·cm, 48 in.·lbf)
(i) Release the parking brake lever and check the brake drag
of the rear brake by turning the rear wheel.
(j) Check that the left and right brake cranks touch the stopper
pin under the condition in which the parking brake lever
is released.
(k) Check that the brake indicator light comes on when operating
the parking brake lever.
(l) Install the console box.

Here's wishing you trouble -free motoring for 2014!

[tricky1138]

Well the nightmare continues!   s:( s:(  

First off bleeding the nsr, loads of air coming out (which I expected!) and peddle not feeling good (which I also expected!) we stopped to top up the reservoir to find a large puddle at the osr!

Banjo nut was done up to spec, but looks like it wasn't sitting in the notch correctly!

So took off, cleaned up and managed to get it to seal!   s:D s:D  

Moved round all bleeding ok, with new fluid coming out ok. Then got to nsf and bleed nipple won't move! No amount of pressure will move it - although I didn't push too hard as didn't want to break it and be completely stuck!

So re bled it again without doing that one and peddle seams ok. Now onto handbrake!

Started car and stamped on peddle several times. Got both cables reattached and then adjusted handbrake.

Must admit it is alot better now but noticed that they seam to be binding a bit even with the handbrake off! Hoping that's normal till I get out for a drive to check!

Also have noticed that the bar that connects the two rear cables to the handbrake are not sitting level - any ideas why?

Stopped for lunch now, so back to it shortly!   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

[tricky1138]

Well everything is back together now, brakes bled as best I can without getting nsf moved still!   s:( s:(  

Handbrake still uneven but thinking that's to do with the bolts holding the cable rather than any problem. Will replace them asap. Anyone know the part number for the pins? Or will any do that fit?

Drove home from my mates and all i can say is they're s**t!

Wasn't expecting fantastic but was hoping a bit better than that. Handbrake seams a little better though! Lol.

Still, with poorly bled brakes and makeshift connections, what else did I expect!

Going to speak to my mate that works in a garage to get it in and bled properly!

Here's hoping for more success this week!  s:scared: :scared: s:scared:

[spit]

Cable pin is 90240-08040. The R-clip is 90468-14019
They're common across a range of Toyota models so should be easy to get hold of stock.

That said,nut'n'bolt should work providing there's room for swivel. If the cable is attached and you have h'brake problems its unlikely to be affected by whether you've used a pin or a bolt! If you use non-standard parts though, leave it in gear when you park up, just in case it lets go   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Congrats on getting this far with it. Hang in there.

[Anonymous]

I had to drill mine out.

CTP supplied replacements, about £5 all in

[B42]

It can take a long time to get all that  air out Thrifty!!

Unless you've got a firm brake pedal - without pumping - there's still air in the system. One thing I'd recommend is not to undo the bleed nipple too far. You want it so that fluid can just flow. If you undo the nipple too far air can get sucked back into the caliper via the thread - bypassing the nice seal you've created between your bleed nipple - plastic pipe and fluid within the jar...and ensure downward pressure on the pedal isn't  stopped before you get the nipple tight...

Here's some late bed-time reading for you. Must say I've never heard of anyone starting their engine to help bleed brakes...but you may find some of the info of help.

 l viewtopic.php?f=11&t=46259&hilit=brake+bleeding l

Cheers Dave

[tricky1138]

Thanks for all your help guys.

Taking it to mate in garage tomorrow to get bleed nipple unstuck from nsf. He can break it and fix it if he does!

Then I'll be able to bleed it properly!   s:) s:)  

Thanks Spit for the part numbers I'll get a price from CTP now! I think the osr isn't swivelling which is the problem!

[Anonymous]

I started the engine on my car which helped  I couldn't get all the air out otherwise...pedal was still a bit spongy

[tricky1138]

I've got working brakes!   s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:  

Garage said the pads were put in wrong and the caliper wasn't adjusted properly to take up the slack!

Plus there was still air in the osr!

So new set of pads installed and fully bled, including nsf which was fine when they slackened it! (I must have loosened it!   s:wink: :wink: s:wink: )

And all working now! Handbrake still comes on at 6 clicks which it still high in my opinion but it's working much better and not sticking at all!   s:D s:D  

All hail the garage!   s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown:  

Was trying to tell them all the things you guys had said but they knew everything I was trying to tell them so all credit to them. Very happy.   s:D s:D

[B42]

Well that's been a steep learning curve for you Thrifty! Anyway, sun expected at the weekend so top down and go enjoy it...you've earned it!   s:D s:D