The '3 Amigos' WILL NOT seal!?!? NOW FIXED!!!!

1ZZ-FE · May 9, 2014, 23:26

UPDATE: It's not the manifold. While the stainless manifold has added a nice lump of midrange torque the annoying tick remains. The tick is there only under throttle/load.

Could there be a pin hole in the cat pipe under the heat shields? Could the heat shields themselves be creating this noise? Some of the bolts on the heats hold are in bad shape.

Knackered tappets/followers?

Never in my experience of attending to my own cars have I come across a problem like it. I'm open to suggestions, I'm completely through with this problem.

Regards,
Jim

wotugonado · May 9, 2014, 23:55

Main cat Heat shields Can make a rattling noise usually around 2500 to 3000 revs. Very annoying rattle does for all the world sound like its Coming from the engine. Jumbo Jubilee clips around them cures it.

1ZZ-FE · May 10, 2014, 00:20

I had considered this but it's at all rpm when revved. I can't imagine heat shields making a ticking noise!?!? Worth a try though!

1ZZ-FE · May 12, 2014, 10:04

Anyone know of a spark plug(s) coming loose on these engines? A quick gooogle of "engine ticking causes" throws up a large number of results for loose spark plugs on various marques. Thoughts?

Regards,
Jim

p3t3 · May 12, 2014, 16:55

You say you had new flexi's welded on.. If it is blowing, it sounds to me like the welding has warped the mating surface of the flange. Even when torqued up there could be a gap that would never be closed? Also could be exaggerated when the pipe is hot or cold? Maybe why the smoke test didn't show anything up?

I gutted my pre cat and didn't notice any change in noise really, especially not a tapping noise.

Keep us posted

tomaky · May 12, 2014, 17:54

Interesting thought manifold was it.

1ZZ-FE · May 12, 2014, 18:33

It's not the spark plugs either!!! Another £12 wasted. I'm convinced it's got something to do with the flexi joints that were welded in. A pin hole? Either way, I'm so close to part-exing this car....the stress is breaking me.

Regards,
Jim

1ZZ-FE · May 12, 2014, 18:45

Injectors? They are known to 'tick' when knackered? Surely this would be accompanied by an engine management light if failing?

Joesson · May 13, 2014, 13:30

I may be paranoid about timing systems but ticks for me have been associated with the timing system.
I noticed your comment on another thread and so it would seem this is an area you haven't yet considered.
Last weekend I changed the auxiliary drive belt and the chain tensioner O ring seal.
The belt tensioner was fine but the belt was obviously cracked at around 60k to be expected.
The O ring leak was apparent and is in close proximity to the belt tensioner and could be mistaken for a leak from the CHAIN (edit) tensioner !?
Could it be that it is the CHAIN (edit) tensioner that is malfunctioning, causing the chain to loose some tension and cause a tick?
For sure I know timing chains tick and just maybe that is what is happening with your 2.

1ZZ-FE · May 13, 2014, 13:42

That sounds plausible, however, I've had a smoke generator on the car and there are no leaks. The generator has a bung which goes in the tail pipe and is sealed. It pumps white smoke in and will escape at any point not making a seal. Not even a whiff of smoke came out.

I am tempted by a new cat. Shame they're so bloody expensive!!!

Jim

Joesson · May 13, 2014, 13:57

To check the tensioner would cost £0.00.and would get that out of the way.
The tensioner seems to be a hydraulic action. When removed the piston is extended. To reinstall a catch is depressed and the piston pushed in and retained with a latch to install. Installing releases the latch and the piston extends. So if you do this with the tensioner off the car, depress the plunger (some oil squirts out), engage the latch and then release it. If the piston extends I guess the tensioner is working.
If it is not working a replacement is around £30.00

1ZZ-FE · May 13, 2014, 14:17

I had considered a timing chain tensioner. However, if you rev the car slowly and gradually build the revs rather than blip the throttle, there is no noise (that I can tell). As soon as you 'load' the engine, the sound is obvious.

Is it a fairly easy job? Access doesn't look great, if I'm honest!!!

Joesson · May 13, 2014, 14:38

easy job. Remove clip from adjacent O2 sensor and let cable hang down.
10mm socket on extension and move nuts to just short of stud ends.
Straight screwdriver between block and flange of tensioner to lever flange off the block.
When it goes it will pop back towards you, hence reason to leave nuts on.
Remove nuts and pull put tensioner.
You will see a piston with a rack machined into it also what looks like a gate lach.
The piston should be out when you remove it. There is a rectangular button device which must be depressed while you push in the piston, it may squirt oil at you! When fully depressed put the latch onto the pin.
I suggest remove the latch and if the piston extends then the tensioner is working.
To replace, repeat above push and latch procedure and enter tensioner into the block with latch upwards.
Push in towards block and replace nuts tightening progressively to overcome the O ring friction.
I understand a click should be heard when the catch releases, I don't hear very well and so I removed a the tensioner again to find that it had released.
torque is 8 INCH pounds.
Do not overtighten .
There is an illustrated how to on spyderchat but i'mnot good with links

1ZZ-FE · May 13, 2014, 14:59

Wow, a very thorough guide! Thankyou for taking the time to type all that out!

I take it, firstly remove the auxbelt by levering the tensioner forwards, get the belt off (needs replacing anyway) then do what you said above?

Definitely a job for the weekend!

Many thanks,
Jim

Anonymous · May 13, 2014, 15:03

No! It's easier than it sounds it's a 2 min job.
It doesn't affect the aux belt. It's just a tensioner assembly which goes in the front of te block, looking at the exhaust manifold it's just to the right.

1ZZ-FE · May 13, 2014, 15:21

Hang on, I think we're getting mixed up between timing chain and aux belt tensioner a here! The item you describe to the right of the manifold is the aux belt tensioner, the other that Joesson describes is the timing chain tensioner?!?!?

Anonymous · May 13, 2014, 15:25

I'm talking about the timing chain tensioner, as is Joesson

1ZZ-FE · May 13, 2014, 15:38

A picture paints a 1000 words - had a quick google. The two are effectively next to one another. 2 nuts against an oval-ish plate!

Apologies - stressed!!!

Regards,
Jim

Joesson · May 13, 2014, 17:18

Thanks Meeerrk, I've had my eye of this ball for a while.
Hope you are OK now Jim, as you say the chain tensioner is an ovalish plate and it is tucked away and you have to be looking for it to notice it.
They two tensioners are very close to each other hence my thoughts about the leak.
It took me longer than 2 minutes but I de rusted and painted the flange before replacing it!

Joesson · May 13, 2014, 17:38

When you replace the auxiliary drive belt look for trevsMr2 post on here.
He did the post from memory, I did this on Sunday and can edit trev as follows.
I found it necessary to move the charcoal filter.
Get the correct belt one is for basic car another longer belt is for car with air con which has an extra pulley for the compressor.

Use a 6 point (I found a 12/multipoint socket started to round the nut off) 19 mm socket and a long wrecking bar on the cast "nut".
You need to PUSH to relieve the belt tensioner.
The bar needs to be as far back as you can get it and you will be touching the rubber seal on the engine compartment frame when the tensioner is relieved enough to replace the belt.
I borrowed son- in-law to do the pushing while I fitted the belt as I could not do both.
As trev says sketch out the belt run as it is a tortuous route!
I pinched the belt together just below half way and then put the pinch between the idler pullies and the resultant belt loop over the crank pulley.
I ended up as trev says with the alternator pulley but could not push and fit the belt solo.

1ZZ-FE · May 13, 2014, 17:53

Thanks again guys. I'll do the timing chain tensioner check this evening when I get a free 30 mins/a break in the weather as I'm at work. I'll eliminate that first, if it's not a chain issue i'll move to the belt and check all pulleys/idlers for rough play - this will have to wait until the weekend.

After that, I'll go for a new cat pipe in case the flange has been warped when welding-in the new flexis. I can cash-in the original Toyota cat at one of the local scrappies to off set the cost a little. I can sell the decatted original manifold (replaced with a stainless mani in error) to recoup more cash. After that I think it must be the cam/followers.

I did a video on my phone today but Photobucket just gives me errors - it uploads 'successfully' but then can't find the video it's just uploaded!!?

Regards,
Jim

1ZZ-FE · May 13, 2014, 21:26

All is well with the tensioner! Was tricky getting to unlatch when placed back into the engine but I managed it by wind ing the nuts all the way down then backing them off leaving a 1mm gap between nut and plate. A few light taps with a hammer later, the plate had the sprung feel I was after, nipped up the nuts....done.

We can strike chain tension off as an issue.

Thanks guys,
Jim

Joesson · May 13, 2014, 22:21

Sorry that didn't resolve the issue.
But as a positive it is another item off your list.
I'd like to think that it isn't (engine) life threatening! But I sympathise that it is being so elusive.
I once said to Redarrow: perseverance is the best tool in the box. I think it applies in this case!

1ZZ-FE · May 13, 2014, 23:03

That's fine mate, I was happy to explore the engine a little further than what I'm familiar with. Changed the oil again (it was due) with 5w40 but made no difference. When I changed the plugs, i checked the coilpack-end of the plug to see if there were signs of spark-jump but none were found.

Will bang my head a bit more.

Regards,
Jim

1ZZ-FE · May 14, 2014, 17:03

Had the car over to an independant Toyota specialist in Lincoln today for an expert-ear. The technicians' immediate reaction was "exhaust leak, definately!" After I'd told him the long list of expense, he then said it would be worth checking the cam/follower clearances - the rocker gasket needs replacing any way so will be the perfect opportunity to do this. I'm sure i've seen a guide somewhere? TDC on no1, measure so many, then TDC on no4 and check the others?

Otherwise, I have a new main cat arriving tomorrow. I have little faith in the fitment of the repaired item. Got a new auxiliary belt to put on too. After these have been replaced and should it not fix it, it really will be part-ex time.

Kind Regards,
Jim