Engine dead - options please???

[Kong]

Hi guys

Only had my MR2 about 2 months and my big end has gone, I've been advised not to drive it.

It's a 52 plate early facelift in otherwise mint condition with 74k miles.

Four options I can see:

1 - Basic rebuild service drive in, drive out  - £800

2 - MattPerformance rebuild - £1300 (this was a tailored quote for my particular needs - he offers a few options)

3 - 2ZZ swap - £2000 minimum

4 - break the car/sell it as it is and buy another

A basic rebuild or breaking the car would cut my losses but I'd still need to buy another car which could have the same problems..

How much would a Matt rebuild or a 2zz swap add to residual values? As an enthusiast how much extra would you pay for a car with either of these?

Any suggestions welcome!

[1979scotte]

Sorry to hear about your troubles nightmare!
It depends on your wallet and requirements.
I would go either for Matts rebuild or a 2zz.
I trust Matt so would rather have his services rather than anyone else's on my 2.
2zz if you want more performance and like reving the nuts off your engine.
Form the performance increase think 2zz isn't great value for money unless you're doing the spanner work yourself.
I am biased I like my turbo.
I love my 2 couldn't break it or sell it.
Best of luck.

[Kong]

Thank you for the reply

I used to have an Exige which had the 2zz engine and I'm certainly a fan of the high revving nature. However I had engine failure on that too (thought Toyota were suppoosed to be reliable?) so I'd be worried about having the same problems again in the MR2 - by which point the total bill is getting ridiculous. At least with the Matt rebuild I could have some worry free motoring.

I'm very impressed with the MR2 but my main reason for not breaking with would be the £1000 worth of modifications I've just fitted!

[AndyM]

Hi mate,

Sorry to hear you're having some issues.  s:( s:(

My 2p worth is that none of them will particularly increase the value of the car. The 2zz might add a bit but being realistic probably not what you'll pay to get it in there in the first place.

In my opinion if you intend to keep the car then a MattPerformance rebuild would be my number one choice. You'll end up with a solid car and a drive-in/drive-out rebuild probably won't be as thorough in sorting out the 1zz to the same degree. Plus, Matt's name attached will certainly hold weight with people in this club for example if/when you come to sell it.

Personally I don't support breaking them unless there is much more significant damage, especially as you describe it as a mint condition example. If you did want to move on I'd much rather see the rolling chassis going complete to someone who is looking to do an engine swap etc...

Andy

[Tomo70]

+1

I agree with the above. I had the same dilemma as you though the idea of 2 zz never entered my mind. I opt for a low mileage running engine from a what was mint 05 plate car that had been written off. Saw engine running checked oil etc bought. With injector, inlet manifold, newish clutch, all ancillaries £ 500.00

Changed oil and filters changed auxillary tensioner and belts and pulleys decat the precat, Altogether just over £1000 fitted.

The car now stands me £ 3700 as I keep finding jobs to do. Example radiator, brakes you have to give the cars plenty of TLC so my advice would be " Better the devil you Know" sort out what's at hand at your given budget and enjoy.   s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes:  

Tom

Best of luck

[1979scotte]

Thank you for the reply

I used to have an Exige which had the 2zz engine and I'm certainly a fan of the high revving nature. However I had engine failure on that too (thought Toyota were suppoosed to be reliable?) so I'd be worried about having the same problems again in the MR2 - by which point the total bill is getting ridiculous. At least with the Matt rebuild I could have some worry free motoring.

I'm very impressed with the MR2 but my main reason for not breaking with would be the £1000 worth of modifications I've just fitted!

Modifications? Where is your thread?

[Kong]

Yea I'm leaing towards the 'better the devil you know' stance. I've had no luck with cars recently, bought a Z4 Coupe which lunched it's gearbox (£2,200), my Exige needed an engine rebuild for £4,000 and bought a tidy little MK4 Golf for pottering I even had to spend £800 getting that through it's MOT. So looks like the MR2 is maintaining form!

To be honest I only paid £1500 for it so + £1300 for a quality Matt rebuild + belts and a new clutch I'm looking at about £3000 all-in for a 'fully sorted' car. - if I use man maths I could be made to look ok :/

The modifications are just as per my signature, nothing too excitingjust trackday stuff - but I'd lose a fortune selling them off straight away   s:( s:(

[AndyM]

Based on those figures then I'd be even more tempted with the Matt option!

£3k for a sorted car you can trust is better than many people have.  s:) s:)

[1979scotte]

Yea I'm leaing towards the 'better the devil you know' stance. I've had no luck with cars recently, bought a Z4 Coupe which lunched it's gearbox (£2,200), my Exige needed an engine rebuild for £4,000 and bought a tidy little MK4 Golf for pottering I even had to spend £800 getting that through it's MOT. So looks like the MR2 is maintaining form!

To be honest I only paid £1500 for it so + £1300 for a quality Matt rebuild + belts and a new clutch I'm looking at about £3000 all-in for a 'fully sorted' car. - if I use man maths I could be made to look ok :/

The modifications are just as per my signature, nothing too excitingjust trackday stuff - but I'd lose a fortune selling them off straight away   s:( s:(

Wow that's poor luck.
Definatley go for Matts rebuild you won't need any luck with that.

[dori dori]

Same situation but a year down the line and big ends already done toyed with the idea of getting an engine but never pulled the trigger as could find the trust to buy something unknown, spoke to Matt on the weekend just gone about various options safe to say my car is going to him to be fixed

[Alex Knight]

If I was in your position, I'd 2ZZ swap. It totally transforms the car into something interesting to a proper weapon.

I'm surprised you had a 2ZZ failure in your Exige. I have done ooooodles of research on the 2ZZ, and it's generally regarded as being pretty much bulletproof provided it's well maintained.

[Anonymous]

If I was in your position, I'd 2ZZ swap. It totally transforms the car into something interesting to a proper weapon.

I'm surprised you had a 2ZZ failure in your Exige. I have done ooooodles of research on the 2ZZ, and it's generally regarded as being pretty much bulletproof provided it's well maintained.

And a baffled sump or dry sumped!

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't waste £1300 putting a 1zz in a roadster, especially as it's a track car as you have said.

I'd put that £1300 towards a 2zz conversion every day of the week

[Kong]

Is there a list of garages who do the 2zz swap? I'm slightly against the clock with an Alps driving holiday late July so can't afford to have it in bits all summer!

[Anonymous]

Bonsai Motorsport (in Alex's sig) are going to be my choice

[Kong]

Are there any 'drive in, drive out' prices for a garage to do the swap? Been looking through the Performance section and most people seem to be DIYing to some degree   s:( s:(

[Anonymous]

Yeah bonsai. Drive both cars there, drive one epic one away  s:D s:D

[MattPerformance]

How much would you say is the total cost Meeerk?

[MattPerformance]

If I was in your position, I'd 2ZZ swap. It totally transforms the car into something interesting to a proper weapon.

I'm surprised you had a 2ZZ failure in your Exige. I have done ooooodles of research on the 2ZZ, and it's generally regarded as being pretty much bulletproof provided it's well maintained.

Not sure where you did the research Alex, I guess not on SELOC.  Loads of engine problems with the 2zz in Lotuses, especially on track, and I mean LOADS.  Plenty of problems with 1zz engines as we know, but this bulletproof label that is given to the 2zz is a myth.

[Anonymous]

Total cost depends on what options you go for. It can / will vary depending on many factors and choices, eg;

- manifold
- exhaust system
- how you approach the wiring
- sump
- ecu
- engine choice (on a pallet or buy a car and break the rest to recoup some money)
- LSD / gearbox choice

There is scope to do it for a couple of thousand, there is scope to spend over double that!

It's down Personal choice and budget.

Wild guess here - you're suggestion is to have the 1zz rebuilt ?  s;) s;)

[MattPerformance]

My suggestion is to compare apples with apples so as to give people proper information with which to make a decision.
The MR2 has an LSD (vitally important if, as is the case here, we're talking track use) so that's a must, not an option. Same with a baffled sump.
The only fair comparison is to use the 'engine on a pallet' solution (if Kong, or anyone else is in a position to buy a car, break it etc etc they're not going to be phased by doing an engine swap on the MR2 so the £1300 1zz cost is not the right figure).
So, reading between the lines, it's probably fair to say that a professionally installed 2zz will cost close to £4k whereas a 1zz costs less than £1300.
I have no agenda (believe it or not) trying to convince people to stick with 1zz engines because I can just as easily start doing 2zz conversions but I simply don't think that a professionally installed 2zz is particularly good value (whereas I completely see the merits of a DIY install, breaking the donor car to get bits and recuperate costs etc)

Edited to say: don't forget that when using off the shelf swap over parts (manifold, ECU, stock cat) you won't see much above 170bhp from the 2zz

[B42]

It's always a difficult call, Kong. I'd say if your car's bodywork is really sound then a rebuild makes sense.
However, I note your options include:  4  "...buy another."  IF you decide you want to pursue this option then look me up on 'selling' . I live in North Yorkshire - just outside Skipton - and may be able to help?

[Anonymous]

It's personal preference at the end of the day. And budget.

If the guy wants to spend £1300 to have his engine rebuilt, then fine, but that only gets him back to square 1.

To then extract more power from that engine will realistically be FI, I guess your looking around £3000 for a used kit, fitted, maybe I don't know (?).

So the £1300 option isn't really directly compatible to the 2zz swap option because the 2zz is a big upgrade, whereas the 1zz is just getting the car back to original output.

To achieve 2zz performance with the 1zz rebuild + turbo etc it's probably similar costs.

See what I'm getting at?

[MattPerformance]

Except that the 2zz isn't a "big" upgrade in my opinion. On a bangs-for-your-buck metric, the stock engine or a turbo conversion (bearing in mind that most of the cost of a conversion can be recuperated down the line) offer much better value for money.  We need more cars out on track days together to find out just how much faster a 2zz engined car is (and even then there'll be loads of other variables).

I agree of course that it's a matter of personal preference but you need all the facts to make that decision, pretty much all of which I think have now been presented!

[Kong]

I'd say I have the means and the skills to break down a Corolla/Celica to get the parts and I have people around me who could help me do the 2ZZ swap. However I don't have the time for a big long project, I've got a Nurburgring/Alps trip on 24th of July. Plus having my Exige in bits all last summer I would actually like to be able to enjoy a sports car during the nice weather, so for this reason I'm leaning towards the 1ZZ rebuild as it will should get me back on the road sooner. I have left messages with two of the best know 2ZZ swap garages to get an idea of a cost/timescale but nobody has called me back - unlike Matt who gave up 30 minutes of his time the other day to give me advice. As is being discussed it's hard to get a true comparison, obviously a 2ZZ would be my ideal preference.