No power, doesnt rev much. help

[Anonymous]

Sadly if a dealer wants to repair you must give them the chance. The rules state that they must give you a full refund or suitable alternative or a chance to repair. However they do only get one chance to put it right.

[AckersMR2]

Sadly if a dealer wants to repair you must give them the chance. The rules state that they must give you a full refund or suitable alternative or a chance to repair. However they do only get one chance to put it right.

Thats what I thought, I know someone who was in the same situation, although I don't think the precats had broken up at that stage as they didn't have any loss of power, it was just burning a ltr every 400 miles. The trader had the engine flushed a couple of times with that engine flush stuff (Forte possibly?) Seemed to do the job though as their still driving it around now, a couple years later.

[GT4thomas]

Toady im getting the precats removed, then will flush the engine change with good quality fully syn oil.

Mine inst really burning oil, level hasn't changed dramatically. Would the oil be black on the dip stick ?

[mikews]

Why are you doing anything to it ? Listen to the comments and take it straight to the garage for them to repair.

You'll be fighting a never ending battle, especially if you need a full engine rebuild. At least if the garage does the work and it goes on to fail a week later you won't be out of pocket

[andyroo104]

I tried doing the same with my previous mk3,but the engine flush just made the problem worse,also by removing the pre-cats(of which judging by your pics on the other thread are practically non-existent) you are affecting your chances of returning your car to the dealer.
The only way to repair your car is as stated numerous times a new engine or rebuild,you must return it to the dealer ASAP,simples.

[Treboeth]

Why are you doing anything to it ? Listen to the comments and take it straight to the garage for them to repair.

You'll be fighting a never ending battle, especially if you need a full engine rebuild. At least if the garage does the work and it goes on to fail a week later you won't be out of pocket

What he said  s:? :? s:?  

Please take the car back to the garage and save some future heart ache.

Loadswine hit the nail on the head with his post.

[Davegtst]

Some people just won't listen.  It's too late for your engine, the pre cats are already knackered.  Sorry to be harsh but if you don't take the car back immediatly and stop spending money on it you need your head testing.

[GT4thomas]

Some people just won't listen.  It's too late for your engine, the pre cats are already knackered.  Sorry to be harsh but if you don't take the car back immediatly and stop spending money on it you need your head testing.

I haven't spent money on it.

Spoken to the dealer and he said hes found a precat on ebay. He doesn't have a clue about whats happened to the engine. He Doesn't seem to believe me about the engine will need rebuilding or whole new one plus most of the exhaust system.
He wants to repair it but i know it wont be done properly

This is a copy of the email i sent:

"The 40 quid precat on ebay isn't going to solve the issue. Its been gutted already, can do that my self for nothing.
 
If you aren't willing to repair it properly, i need to return it to you for a refund.
 
On the trading standards site it says i can reject the car if isn't fit for purpose or road worthy. Do i have to get trading standards involved ?
  m http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advi ... s-sum6.cfm m
 
Thomas."

I really hope it doesn't turn into one of those petty legal battles. I cant just drive 80 miles and leave it on the forecourt and demand my money back. Nor do i have the time/effort/money/resources to do the whole court thing
if it comes to that.

[Anonymous]

Only the main cat will need to be replaced and gut what's left of the manifold. Get him to do that. Then in give it a month to monitor the oil usuage with him accepting that if it uses to much then a refund will be given, have him put that in writting signed and dated. That will cover you for future problems and shows some middle ground with him. Either way he can force you to having to either accepting the car as is or taking it to him for repair.

[Joesson]

The pre cat/ damaged engine situation has been discussed at some length on this and other forums.As I understand it there is no definitive explanation for what occurs but the result is the same, a dead engine.
One explanation is that the oil control rings on the pistons do not do the job they are intended for. This results in increased oil consumption which in turn is burnt in the cylinder head and exhausted via the pre cats in the exhaust manifold. This burnt oil breaks up the pre cat honeycomb material.In a particular situation the engine reabsorbs the exhaust gases. These are then reintroduced to the engine but now contain the pre cat material. This being abrasive it exacerbates the cylinder wear and more oil is burnt and the cycle continues. A larger amount of the pre cat material is forced into the main catalyser, partially blocking this and reducing the engine performance as the exhaust gases have difficulty exiting the system.
This cycle continues for a period until the engine expires.
An alternative theory is that the precat  material break up is the start of the damage cycle. This is sucked back into the engine and abrades the cylindered leading to increased oil consumption and the cycle once started continues as in the first theory until the engine is dead.
So which ever theory is correct the result and symptoms are the same.
This is a progressive failure and symptoms will be noticed prior to demise.
This means that when you purchased the car any experienced motor engineer would have been aware of the symptoms!
This in turn means that you were knowingly sold faulty goods and have the right in law to a full refund.
That is my opinion.
If I were in your situation I would explain as above and then it is up to the dealer to disprove the statement or make good your loss.
Please don't roll over

[cabbydave]

I bought a car exacly the same symptoms as this. Engine was knackered, When I changed the engine for a known good one it still wouldn't rev. All I had around me at the time was a decat pipe put that on and it was sweet. I think you need a engine recon and a new main cat. If you insist on trying to fix it yourself just loosen off the 3 nuts where the manifold bolts to the downpipe and start it up I bet it will rev all the way to the red line but it will be noisy.

[GT4thomas]

Precats and main cat have been gutted, And wow car has been transformed. now revs easily, gains speed normally, sounds normal (if a little louder)

Im going to monitor oil usage for a few weeks.

There was a sensor next to the oil filter that wasn't plugged in, so plugged it back in. (didn't light up the CEL all this time strange)

[carolineasb]

Can I ask how you managed to gut precats that were already gone?

If you do end up trying to take this car back, you may find you won't be able to and will have no legal standing as you have played around with the engine and admitted to it on a public forum so the dealer is likely to tell you where to go  s:( s:(

[andyroo104]

There is no helping some people. s:-( :-( s:-(

[Davegtst]

Precats and main cat have been gutted, And wow car has been transformed. now revs easily, gains speed normally, sounds normal (if a little louder)

I'm going to monitor oil usage for a few weeks.

There was a sensor next to the oil filter that wasn't plugged in, so plugged it back in. (didn't light up the CEL all this time strange)

Well done mate.  Now not only do you need to pay for a new main cat when it comes to the MOT but now the dealer can quite easily say you have caused any damage to the engine.

[wotugonado]

Precats and main cat : have been gutted   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:    s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  , And wow car has been transformed. now revs easily, gains speed normally, sounds normal (if a little louder)

I'm going to monitor oil usage for a few weeks.

Really   s:roll: :roll: s:roll:   after all the advice you've had, i think you've just shot yourself in the foot.
I really hope that cures all the troubles, but i think it most unlikely.
Could be a very expensive mistake........................
The only winner here is whoever you get to do the engine rebuild.

[loadswine]

Oh dear, I fear this may not work out well for you now, which is a great shame. Thing is, it is very likely to be an oilburner and, yes, it will rev freely with the blockage removed, but this hasn't cured the root of the problem, ie an unhappy engine.
I feel for you, I really do, but returning to the dealer was by far the best plan. Options from here on will be very limited and unfortunately, expensive too.
Sincerely hope that I'm wrong, but as reported thus far, thats how things look.

[StuC]

I really hope that cures all the troubles

+1

davegtst is correct in highlighting that come MOT time you will need a cat of some description to pass.
Are you going to be looking a stock replacement now things are cleared out? Assuming that the oil level doesn't nose dive.

[GT4thomas]

I really hope that cures all the troubles

+1

davegtst is correct in highlighting that come MOT time you will need a cat of some description to pass.
Are you going to be looking a stock replacement now things are cleared out? Assuming that the oil level doesn't nose dive.

The dealer wants evidence that the engine is damaged. He was only going to fit a gutted precat, no matter how many time i explain it to him that wont fix the internal damage.

So does he want to see pictures of the cylinder walls and pistion rings and oil passages ?.

Yes ill get a stock main cat come mot time if it get that far.

[Jrichards20]

The proof??  It wasnt revving and struggled to get to 40mpg as you say? Well that was before you decided to fix it so i guess that options out the window?

[StuC]

The dealer wants evidence that the engine is damaged.

I guess the only evidence you can provide now is oil consumption. As Toyota issued an "oil usage" guideline. Which I believe is 1l/1000 miles)

Quote, Car Mechanics mag Sept 2007:

'Toyota.....but their latest engines are letting them down somewhat, especially 1.8 VVT units fitted to cerain Aventis, Celica, Corolla and MR2 models.
Essentiallly the problem is excessive oil usage due to the standard piston oil control ring not being man enough for the job and giving up the task at around 75,000 miles.'
Goes on to confirm that Toyota will replace short engines with full Toyota service history using a litre of oil in less than 1000 miles.
To my knowledge, Toyota never admited to any problem with pre-cats.

Taken from here

[Eastsoutheast]

Surely your dealer offering to replace the pre cat is accepting its faulty. The engine problems are well known to be symptoms of faulty pre cats. There is plenty of documented evidence of the issues caused by faulty pre cats.

Please please reject the car in writing but accept the dealers offer of fixing the car. Once he returns the car as fixed take it for a long test drive, monitor oil usage and have it checked over by a specialist.

If the issues remains you should have enough evidence to support the return of the car to the dealer.

Best of luck.

[Anonymous]

Oh well we did try and help you, as stated he could fit a new manifold and it wouldn't of been fixed as the blockage was in the main cat, but that now gone. All i ask is can i know what oil you will use so i can buy some shares in it.

[MartinC]

I really do hope it all works out for you buddy.

Stay lucky.  s:D s:D

[Treboeth]

All i ask is can i know what oil you will use so i can buy some shares in it.

  s:mrgreen: :mrgreen: s:mrgreen:  

Fingers crossed it will "cure" itself.