Under steer ?

[GT4thomas]

I have stock wheels and tyres (sizes) yet i get a fair bit of under steer, and even more so in the wet.

Tyres are pretty old, have plenty of tred but are different makes front and back. at 28/32 psi.

Is this normal ?.

[AndyM]

Is this normal ?.

It is common given your current tyre situation but isn't a handling trait of the car when setup properly/has decent tyres on all round. If you get some decent rubber on it I think you'll see it disappear.  s:) s:)

[maybeturbo]

I'll get shot down for this but I don't care it's my feelings.
Though I don't currently own an mr2 I have owned 5 in the past, and driven every type apart from a mk1 sc and my favourite handling set up was when I had my mk3 pfl with yokohama parada spec 2's on the front and some black round tyres on the back (think they were called sport one-cheapos) the balance was perfect, would get a little loose on heavy breaking into bends and transition to composed oversteer so sweet. When I replaced them with good rubber I was really disappointed.  

Now somebody shout at me for advocating cheap tyres.   s:scared: :scared: s:scared:

[AndyM]

I'm not going to shoot you down. I'd be a hypocrite as I ran a Yokohama/Bridgestone mix for a while when I first had the car and it felt great, however... while mixed tyres may inadvertently end up giving you a great handling car, there is no doubt that it is putting some faith in a lady luck and you could equally end up with something horrible.

Having a set of matched tyres gives you a stable and consistent base to start from. Plus, with mixed tyres when you get into adverse conditions they can act differently and massively unbalance the car, at least with the same on each corner they will generally react the same to a given situation so become more predictable.

Going back to the main topic... I think the 'old' comment is probably the key here, the rubber on the front has probably have gone off.

[maybeturbo]

Diplomatic way of saying- no that's wrong. Lol.

The tyres are trying to do very different things though, two of them are pushing forwards (ore sideways) and two of em are telling it where it's going.

There's a lot to be said for not having to push to silly levels to get it on the limit too. My old mk2 turbo with about 320 hp and big eagle f1's on the back, when you got on the power through a round about and slid a bit, when it corrected you'd be propelled at your exit at warp speed. Was insanely scary.

[AndyM]

 s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  I'm just saying that, in my opinion, I wouldn't do it again personally.

I completely agree that the tyres are doing different things, my point is that unless you know the qualities and characteristics of all the major tyres in the market to make an informed choice to match them up then there is the potential for getting it wrong and, in the worst case, making it dangerous.

Also all car manufacturers/race teams/etc use matching tyres makes (even if the compound and sizing is tweaked) and I don't think I know more than them.  s;) s;)

It's all personal preference though, I like having lots of progressive grip for road driving to corner fast (and avoid idiots) and I'm not that bothered about actually getting the rear to break away (although granted it can make roundabouts more fun). If I wanted to drift my way to work I'd probably get myself a Skyline or GT86 though.  s:D s:D

[Anonymous]

I had toyo t1r on standard wheels and it still had a fair amount of under steer, that's how it's designed, for safety.

I've fitted an underbrace, front upper brace and wider front tyres and the transformation is amazing, absolutely no under steer, feels pretty amazing actually

[maybeturbo]

Oh yeah, completely agree, total pot luck.

I always found the pre face lift under steered a bit if you weren't forcing grip to the front by lifting off and the face lift was just an understeer machine! I know it's probably only geometry changes but felt totally different to me.

[GT4thomas]

If i approach a t-junction fairly quickly, turn in then accelerate mid corner it will just go straight regardless of lock lol.

But as soon as i lift off the grip is back and the rear snaps into place.

Or it could just be my bad driving lol.

How do to correct if the rear is really out without spinning ?.

[Wabbitkilla]

Sounds like a combination of things.

1. Old rubber is as bad as cheap and nasty tyres and mixed tyres, you will be mega surprised by the difference new rubber makes.
2. Driving style, if you are used to driving front wheel drive you essentially need to relearn cornering and make note and feel your way around turns.
3. Maybe you are just plain going too fast for the tyres and conditions, again adjust driving style to meet.
4. Might be worth getting a 4wheel geo/alignment check and adjust, these cars really should be checked at least every 2 years.

I have actually experienced the same as you in my early days of ownership, I had driven fwd for years and it took a while to get used to the difference. Coupled with hard and relatively old tyres it taught me to really respect the car and understand the feedback I got from the chassis. Once I got used to it and had new rubber on it was a revelation, hence why I have the same car several years later.

[steve b]

Oh yeah, completely agree, total pot luck.

I always found the pre face lift under steered a bit if you weren't forcing grip to the front by lifting off

Lifting off ?  You mean trail braking surely?

As said it only takes a bit of geometry adjustment and a tyre change to banish all understeer.  Unless specifically provoked or appalling driving.

[GT4thomas]

I'm thinking the tyres are gone on the front. Just really really old.

Once/if I get the car sorted tyres and alignment will be the next job.

[maybeturbo]

In road driving I meant, not track. Lifting off to encourage better cornering, on say approaching a roundabout. But yeah, trail braking into corners would be similar on track driving.

What is the weight split of these cars?

[AndyM]

Pretty much 50/50 I believe (if the spare wheel is retained and based on average cabin weight).

[Wabbitkilla]

Well yes I would just call that proper driving of a rwd car, get your speed down and correct for entering the turn and then smoothly apply the power through the second half of the turn. Depends on conditions and it's hard to describe the formula in writing, it's more about what you feel from the car than specifying rules. But it's hugely different from fwd or awd.

[Joesson]

My 2 is silver (not red!) So what driving style should I be using?

[maybeturbo]

For sure. I hate when people exactly describe how and what to do to drive a car properly,   it is 100% about a feel for the car and grip, balance etc. That's why you get great drivers with such different approaches and styles, everybody's different.  
I like a car that's not too stiff and quite loose, find most coil overs even on softest settings to be too stiff on the road and end up upsetting the car more than aiding grip. Good dampers and springs, bushes and some adjustable shiny bits is ideal for me.

[Wabbitkilla]

My 2 is silver (not red!) So what driving style should I be using?

Rwd   s:roll: :roll: s:roll:   dyac!

Corrected   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[Wabbitkilla]

For sure. I hate when people exactly describe how and what to do to drive a car properly,   it is 100% about a feel for the car and grip, balance etc. That's why you get great drivers with such different approaches and styles, everybody's different.  
I like a car that's not too stiff and quite loose, find most coil overs even on softest settings to be too stiff on the road and end up upsetting the car more than aiding grip. Good dampers and springs, bushes and some adjustable shiny bits is ideal for me.

Absolutely, though I disagree about coilovers and bracing, though I have my coilovers set to the way I like them and the breastplate adds stiffness while still allowing a bit of compliance. The car handles great and suits my driving style well, combination of stiffness, suspension, and tyre makes a big difference.

[maybeturbo]

My point exactly. Everyone's style and feel is different. Eg, two teammates of an f1 team with identical cars and nothing between lap times will often have totally different set ups. I guess truly great drivers are able to make the most of anything.
For me a car that's too stiff I usually end up spinning out, a bit of flex gives you a fraction more warning of what's about to happen, like a lamppost in your lap, maybe I have slow reactions?!

[maybeturbo]

Having said that I havnt driven a mk3 with any bracing, only heard/read great things.

[FGrob]

Coilovers (coil spring over shock) - also sometimes called a Macpherson strut, which is not the same as a shock and spring (meaning they are not mounted together) I'm sure my 3 came with coil overs as new from the factory - none adjustable of course.

As for setting - it's really down to the individual and driving skill, one mans track / road beast is another mans ring stinger, plus it also depends how much cash you want to throw at it, this discussion is no different to anything that was said 8 years ago and probably in another 8 years to come - people only hear what they want and always think they know best.

[maybeturbo]

There's always one, that's forums..... alright, what i was getting at was that any aftermarket coil over I've used,  I have found comes with springs too hard for road use and the damping rates are too stiff even at the soft end as most aftermarket coilovers are aimed at track use no potholes and speed bumps and drain covers etc to upset the car.
Sorry for not making my opinion clearer.

[Wabbitkilla]

One of the best advantages pf sport coilovers is the rebound damping which you don't get in standard type dampers.

[Bernie]

I have Robs 2 with the set up below and run it at a softer setting and yes it's a firm ride but it's perfect for my driving style and not at all uncomfortable very planted and corners on rails


Been mentioned in another post but well worth reading Porsche high performance driving handbook by Vic Elford some great tips and insight into RWD techniques

Suspension

Tein MonoFlex Coilovers plus EDFC controller. (30mm drop)
Megan racing rear adjustable Tie bars C/W pillow ball ends (Camber, Toe and caster)
Standard front and rear Anti roll bars – nylon coated
Super Pro up-rated anti roll bar mountings
Twos R Us Heavy Duty front and rear Drop links

Chassis

Standard 04 front and rear bracing
TTE centre cross brace
Cusco Front Top tower brace
C-One Rear Top tower brace


Back to the OP second the previous opinions good rubber at correct pressures and4 wheel alignment are a good start point