Toyo Proxes T1R & T1S

[Comer]

That's sounds completely different to the way my car is behaving with those tyres.  Did you have the tyres put on to the new alloys by a Toyota dealer?  I'm just wondering whether they did a decent job on the balancing?

[Robbie]

Michael, yes, my Toyota dealer swapped the tyres when they put on the new alloys.  There's no juddering through the steering wheel etc that you would normally associate with wheel balance problems....just very annoying, unstable handling. Are you running on stock pressures?

Meantime i'll try Markii's tip of increasing psi to around 28/34 and see how it goes.  I've been higher than this and much lower with no discernable improvement.

Robbie

[markiii]

did they fit the right tyres to teh right wheels?

I hads new tyres put on when I had my alloys changed by MrT

they put the wheels on back to front and it caused a similar sensation.

[Robbie]

thanks for the tip Markiii...I'll check this evening.

Robbie

[Anonymous]

Robbie,

I seem to remember that when I had the T1 S tyres put on they had to be fitted so that the tread pattern was in the correct direction (V forward). I don't know if this is true with the T1R's maybe someone who has them could advise, as this would make a considerable difference to handling.

Iain.

[Comer]

Are you running on stock pressures?

The tyre fitter noticed that my old Yokos had worn more on the outside and inside presumably from low pressures so he suggested running my Toyos on 30 - which they are now I think.  I'll check later.

[Anonymous]

Robbie,

I seem to remember that when I had the T1 S tyres put on they had to be fitted so that the tread pattern was in the correct direction (V forward). I don't know if this is true with the T1R's maybe someone who has them could advise, as this would make a considerable difference to handling.

Iain.

The T1-Rs are directional, yes.  'V's forward (although "right" and "left" are written on the sides of the tyres too!)

[Anonymous]

Robbie:

Your experience is interesting ... and I'd like to explore solutions, if you'd bear with some questions in that pursuit?

Well I am now the owner of standard size replacement alloys (replaced under warranty earlier this month)...plus a new set of Toyo Proxes T1R.

Why? ... were the previous wheels damaged - to the point of replacement?
Was there any occasion for your car to be severely out of allignment ? ... e.g. damage to the whole car?

Are you saying that you have aftermarket replacement wheels?
Would you specify the brand and size, since MR2 "standard size" varies by year i.e. pre or post 2003?

Exactly what size tires are you now running?

... is more susceptible to cross-winds; the car veers to the left as I change up through the gears; it literally "bounces" slowly round corners and it generally wanders over the road when driving at motorway speeds.

These characteristics are usually due to over-inflation.  I'd start by trying lower pressures.  Due to its light weight (and precious-little weight on the front) our MR2's are very affected by tire pressures.  Specifically, they get very 'bouncy' and erratic (touchy in straight line tracking) when the front tires are over-inflated.  Think of less footprint, when you're up on your toes!   s:) s:)    The stock 26 psi front is particularly finnicky in this regard.

I asked for tire sizes, because, if you're running larger tires than stock, their load-bearing capacity may come off as the 'bouncy' feeling, that you noticed, if they are over-inflated for the weight that they're carrying.  So, if your new tires are larger than stock, you may need to use less pressure than the stock 26 psi, especially on the front.

[markiii]

no way on this planet do you want less pressure in proxies on the front than standard,

[Robbie]

Markiii Wrote:

did they fit the right tyres to the right wheels?

yes...checked and big ones on the back wee ones to the front.

eanlow wrote:

I seem to remember that when I had the T1 S tyres put on they had to be fitted so that the tread pattern was in the correct direction (V forward).

checked out ok..v's all facing forwards...as are the rotation indicators on the tyre walls.

MikeCoughlin Wrote:

Why? ... were the previous wheels damaged - to the point of replacement?
Was there any occasion for your car to be severely out of allignment ? ... e.g. damage to the whole car?

wheels replaced due to cosmetic bubbling only....car has never been in an accident...never even brushed a kerb....(came close a few times though on wet Edinburgh cobbled streets) The car drove perfectly until wheels/tyres replaced by Mr T.

are you saying that you have aftermarket replacement wheels?
Would you specify the brand and size, since MR2 "standard size" varies by year i.e. pre or post 2003?

Exactly what size tires are you now running?

the replacement wheels aren't aftermarket..they are direct like for like replacements of standard 2002 MR2 wheels..  I'm currently running bog standard tyre sizes 185/55R15 and 205/50R15

Today I ran standard pressures of 26/32 and it was terrible.

Thanks for the replies everyone.  I guess there's nothing really for it except  to continue to experiment with the tyre pressures for now. I've set the pressures for 25.5/31 for tomorrow and I'll see how I go.
  s:? :? s:?

[Anonymous]

Hmmm ... well, Robbie, if you're not experiencing dramatic improvement by the time you get down to 24 psi up front, then:

1.  I would have the allignment checked - carefully.

2.  While rare, it's not impossible for a tire's inner belts to break.  A volume tire store will see their share of them.  It IS possible that you got a defective tire.

[markiii]

Markiii Wrote:

did they fit the right tyres to the right wheels?

yes...checked and big ones on the back wee ones to the front.
  s:? :? s:?

not quite what I meant

front should be 185/55/15 on 6" rims rear should be 205/50/15 on 6.5" rims

however while having all 4 wheels and tyres seperated in order to swap the wheels under warranty, the silly buggers actually gave me

front 185/55/15 on 6.5" rims and rear 205/50/15 on 6" rims.

while teh front isn't so bad 205 on 6" rims especially when teh sidewalls are as soft as proxies are is not a good idea.

The only way to check is to take the wheels off and read teh sizes from teh inside of teh wheel spokes.

[Robbie]

Markiii wrote:

not quite what I meant

front should be 185/55/15 on 6" rims rear should be 205/50/15 on 6.5" rims

Sorry my reply wasn't very clear.....Although I didn't check exact rim sizes I did "eyeball" them to check that the bigger rims were on the rear and had the larger tyres on them...and that seemed to be the case.  I'll check exact rim sizes tomorrow though just to be on the safe side.

[Anonymous]

Been following this and thinking of what might be the problem.  It's bewildering me, especially as I currently (still, must chase up the fronts!) have RE040's on the front and new T1R's on the rear and the car is absolutely fine!  

Only idea I have is try taking all the wheels off and rolling them to check for a distorted tyre?  Have you any vibration that might indicate this?

[roger]

Been following this and thinking of what might be the problem.  It's bewildering me, especially as I currently (still, must chase up the fronts!) have RE040's on the front and new T1R's on the rear and the car is absolutely fine!  

Andy, just out of interest - you have 16" on the back? What size tyre did you go for? Thanks

[Anonymous]

Been following this and thinking of what might be the problem.  It's bewildering me, especially as I currently (still, must chase up the fronts!) have RE040's on the front and new T1R's on the rear and the car is absolutely fine!  

Andy, just out of interest - you have 16" on the back? What size tyre did you go for? Thanks

Yes.  225/40x16 Rear and 195/50x15 Front.  Both 10mm wider and 5% lower aspect ratio compared with standard, so that rolling radius remains close to standard.

[Robbie]

Andy s Wrote:

Only idea I have is try taking all the wheels off and rolling them to check for a distorted tyre? Have you any vibration that might indicate this?

Andy,
no vibration to speak of, but at low speed (I was caught in some roadworks on the A1 this morning) I noticed that scuttleshake has increased.  I'll examine the tyres this evening though when I check out the wheel sizes.

Today's drive to work was no better on 25.5/31 psi

Robbie

[roger]

Been following this and thinking of what might be the problem.  It's bewildering me, especially as I currently (still, must chase up the fronts!) have RE040's on the front and new T1R's on the rear and the car is absolutely fine!  

Andy, just out of interest - you have 16" on the back? What size tyre did you go for? Thanks

Yes.  225/40x16 Rear and 195/50x15 Front.  Both 10mm wider and 5% lower aspect ratio compared with standard, so that rolling radius remains close to standard.

Andy, phew

There was I thinking you had 225/40 rears ('cos I don't think Toyo make the 205/45 rear) but stock RE040 on the front, and you said you had no problems. You obviously changed the RE040s at some time. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Been following this and thinking of what might be the problem.  It's bewildering me, especially as I currently (still, must chase up the fronts!) have RE040's on the front and new T1R's on the rear and the car is absolutely fine!  

Andy, just out of interest - you have 16" on the back? What size tyre did you go for? Thanks

Yes.  225/40x16 Rear and 195/50x15 Front.  Both 10mm wider and 5% lower aspect ratio compared with standard, so that rolling radius remains close to standard.

Andy, phew

There was I thinking you had 225/40 rears ('cos I don't think Toyo make the 205/45 rear) but stock RE040 on the front, and you said you had no problems. You obviously changed the RE040s at some time. Thanks.

I think I'm confusing myself here!  I think the actual size of the rear T1Rs is 215, not 225 which would be 20mm wider than std.  I am running these with standard 185 fronts and expected things to feel wrong but it feels surprisingly little different, even when pushed fairly hard or at high(ish) speed.  The front T1R's are arriving tomorrow and I'm wondering what that's going to be like.

[Anonymous]

The front T1R's are arriving tomorrow and I'm wondering what that's going to be like.

We'll all be looking forward to a full skidpad, slalom & track lap times report, Monday morning!

  s:P s:P

[roger]

Andy

Sorry I asked, I get VERY confused over tyre & wheel sizes.

Anyway, tomorrow is the day - for your new tyres AND my chip programming!

[Robbie]

Robbie Wrote:

I'll check exact rim sizes tomorrow though just to be on the safe side.

Wheel sizes are fine 15" x 6" front and 15" x 6.5" on the rear.  The tyres also look ok...no lumps or bumps or any obvious signs of damage...a bit of wear on the outside edge of both front tyres as well as the inside.  I'd really only expected inside edge wear but I guess that's down to me messing about with pressures.

I've set the pressures to 28/33 for tomorrow's test run.

  s:( s:(

[Robbie]

Robbie Wrote:

I've set the pressures to 28/33 for tomorrow's test run.

definitely not the right setting...worse if anything.  I'm having to continually correct the steering and it's a bit unnerving at higher speeds.

Car's booked in for service and 1st MOT next week though so will ask them to check out the c@*p handling.

Did notice when I was checking the rim sizes that it looks as if someone has tried to jack the car up and depressed and ripped through part of the plastic nappy at the rear. (No damage previously) I wonder if Mr T could have put the jack on a suspension part instead of a jacking point and put something out of kilter?  Hopefully I'll find out next week.

Thanks for all your responses anyway....I'll let you know how I get on.

[Anonymous]

Robbie,

I've just had the T1R's fitted to my 03 (plus alloy wheel replacement) and I'm not experiencing any problems, except the usual run-in period for Toyos.

I don't have the problem with wrong tyre placement as I have the 16" rears. I run 28 front and stock 32 on the rears.

If you haven't used Toyos before, I'd give your self 300-500 miles to bed the tyres in, but you do seem to be experiencing some odd driving conditions. This is my second set of Toyos, my 1st set were T1S's.

Send me a PM if you want a second opinion or direct comparison, as I also live in the area.

regards,
Gordon

[Anonymous]

OK, my car now has T1R's on all wheels.  First impressions, after a very quick scrubbing -in are interesting.  I think the car is noticable less prone to tramlining and nervousness at motorway speeds, though admittedly this is inevitably a comparison with part-worn RE040's.  Turn-in with 27psi front seems good, but need to push it harder over the next few hundred miles to be certain.  

No problems so far and Robbie, I think you must either have a faulty tyre or some kind of damage to suspension inflicted by the garage.  Hope you get it sorted soon.