2zz at Santa Pod

doodlepugg · May 3, 2015, 19:14

So, this weekend I've been to Santa Pod (400 mile round trip for me) in the MR2Z. Decided to do a couple of runs for benchmarks - the car is my daily so I wasn't going even slightly hard on the launch, and it's also fair to say that I cannot drive for toffee... BUT all that said I managed a 15 flat. My last run being against a DC5 integra (220bhp K20) and launches aside, 2nd gear right through to the top of 4th at the end of the quarter mile I was absolutely bang on side by side, nothing in it. Though a slick shift from 3rd - 4th gave me a slight pull on him. So with that in mind, book 1/4 mile time for a DC5 is 14.3. There is no doubt in my mind that an MRS will easily beat a DC5 off the mark when launched due to weight & drivetrain advantages. That to me means with a heroic driver breaking into the 13's is definitely achievable, even with the HP draining Chinese mani I have on mine.

Happy days indeed - rejoice 2zz owners, we can do Hondas on the straights, and in the corners s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

~Andy

doodlepugg · May 3, 2015, 19:16

I'll upload my time slip and a pic when I get chance (don't hold your breath, I still haven't done a newbie intro yet!!!)

Lee H · May 3, 2015, 19:33

A standardish 2ZZ will 100% not do 13's on the 1/4. No matter how heroic it is definitely not easy to shave more than a second off your time.

Also my full fat EP3 with a few breathing mods ran a 14.0 so the DC5 driver obviously wasn't all that.

I'd love to be proven wrong but seen a few 2ZZ's on the strip and they are 15 second cars really.

mikey P · May 3, 2015, 22:29

I would hope a 2zz could get into the high 13s the mid engine layout and power to weight should make it quicker than a ep3 type r. Wouldnt like to do it to à clutch in a car i owned though.

doodlepugg · May 3, 2015, 23:56

You are missing the point I made. Book time for a DC5 is 14.3. We both ran a 15 flat, but that was irrelevant. What I am saying is that throughout the rev range up through the gears my 2zz MR-2 was EXACTLY the same speed. There is no way in hell a heavier car with less grip will launch quicker, so a 2zz will definitely beat a 14.3.

doodlepugg · May 3, 2015, 23:57

It's more things like driveshafts & gearboxes that die at Pod, so much grip at such a sudden launch strips teeth off shafts for fun.

Lee H · May 4, 2015, 08:07

Quote from: "doodlepugg"You are missing the point I made. Book time for a DC5 is 14.3. We both ran a 15 flat, but that was irrelevant. What I am saying is that throughout the rev range up through the gears my 2zz MR-2 was EXACTLY the same speed. There is no way in hell a heavier car with less grip will launch quicker, so a 2zz will definitely beat a 14.3.

I'm totally not missing the point, It just will not happen and until someone runs the times its all speculation. I know someone who has dragged their 2ZZ Roadster quite a lot and can't break out of the 15's. A Lotus Elise only just runs 13's and that is a hell of a lot lighter than a Roadster.

The DC5 was clearly not running or driven right if it only ran a 15 and book is 14.3, more than likely an over zealous driver struggling for traction (or dropping out of vtec on gear changes). I'm not sure what more there is to understand and that is the most relevant point in the post, the car was 0.7 seconds off its proper pace which is a hell of a lot in drag terms.

What were the terminal speeds for both cars? And 60ft times?

Edit - most sites have DC5 down as 14.6 or slower.

m http://www.torquestats.com/index.php?car_id=158 m

Wabbitkilla · May 4, 2015, 08:56

Book time vs real time. Temperature, air pressure, altitude, wind speed and direction, fatness of driver, tyre models and pressures, all have to be the same to be comparative.

stupink · May 4, 2015, 09:39

pop your time up, and you can see how the launch was, a 60ft of 2s or less is a good launch irrelevant of how hard you pushed it. any more than 2.2s and yeah you were having a little nap in a car like the 2. (assuming you have a working clutch and tyres.. that said i've never dragged my 2, just putting numbers together from previous cars and road tests)
Also top speed shows roughtly the capability of the car reguardless of launch etc, as time will vary massively due to driver, but tbh speed won't.

Lee H · May 4, 2015, 09:52

I recently ran a 13.7 @ 102mph, 60ft was 2.1 and I'm running about 270bhp in my Roadster, however car was holding back over 5k rpm. I also had a 2ZZ roadster and the difference between that car and this is night and day.

doodlepugg · May 4, 2015, 10:04

My fastest 60ft was 2.2 flat, like I said I was taking it very easy of the line. Launched absolutely flat out, there is no doubt in my mind it could drop a second off the time.
By the same speed as the DC5, the launch was irrelevant. No he wasn't dropping out of vtec or miss shifting, up at that speed when someone is next to you, you can tell if they chuff up. No two ways about it, my car was exactly the same speed once rolling, that is what I'm saying.
No one that owns a 2zz mr2 goes to pod with the intentions of going flat out regardless of what they break, so you're not likely to ever find out. This is annoying me now, and if I ever go to pod again I will try and trailer the mr2 there just so I can run it absolutely flat out. Just for you.
At Pod, grip is really not an issue in the mr2, it's nigh on impossible to break traction. Just walking down the strip your feet stick to the floor.

Lee H · May 4, 2015, 10:09

I don't understand the point of drag racing and not going full out, I always have done and always will.

You have said grip is not an issue so that factored in you would need to take more than half a second off your 60ft to achieve a second by the end of the strip, that will not happen. The time is in the launch, pretty sure you are flat out the rest of the way up the strip.

doodlepugg · May 4, 2015, 15:53

If you're doing 2.1 60ft then you're not going 'all out'. That, or the surface that you're drag racing on is shocking. At pod you can do a 7k launch and it'll bite. I'm not going all out because my mr2 is my daily, and I like it. That, and I had a 200 mile drive home. You are beginning to irritate me if I'm honest, and I feel absolutely no need to justify my opinion any more.
Drag racing is willy waving, money, and the ability to not give a damn when you break something, which you always will, every time. I had a great weekend, had a go to say that I had, and came back happy with my respectably quick, economical daily.

cabbydave · May 4, 2015, 15:59

What gearbox have you got in your 2zz conversion?

Lee H · May 4, 2015, 16:03

2.1 was on road tyres with a hell of a lot more power on a worse surface (York).

You are also irritating me with your misleading speculation and nothing actually backed up with real times so let's just leave it there.

I take drag racing quite seriously and the proof is in the times at the end of the day, nothing else.

I will bow out of your discussion now.

Enjoy the rest of your bank holiday weekend.

mikey P · May 4, 2015, 21:32

Maybe there should be a mr2roc rwyb meet, the mr2oc used to go quite a bit and it was always good fun, (mainly a bit faster as many were turbos) but i think it would a good meet if we had a good number there on the same day all doing a few runs. (Have never heard of breaking anything more than a clutch unless you have really modified the car) i know the mk3s will not be challenging anything too fast up there and are not ideally suited, but still think it could offer some entertainment.

ChrisGB · May 4, 2015, 22:14

Probably a car or two around here that could dip into the 12s if their owners are brutal enough. I've seen plenty of stuff broken on the strip. It's sticky, so loads on the drivetrain are potentially huge in 1st, stripped driveshaft splines, blown differentials, it's all possible and all expensive.

doodlepugg · May 5, 2015, 13:50

Yeah, anything that joins to something else on the drivetrain is at risk of breaking, regardless of power. That's why I just slipped my clutch instead of launching it. There were a few SW20's doing the strip, at pretty embarrassing speeds if I'm honest. Up in the 17's. There was only on that managed a mid 14, presumably the only turbo. There was a fiat 126 with a 3sge turbo pulling 11's though!!

Drag racing is total folly, though. Running down a strip made largely of rubber and sticky syrup is no real world comparison. That's why I mentioned being the exact same as a DC5 rolling, that's comparable acceleration. On a normal, less sticky road the odds are even more in favour of the MR2.

doodlepugg · May 5, 2015, 13:52

I'm running the corolla 6 speed in my car, with an mr2 lsd.

doodlepugg · May 5, 2015, 18:44

Quote from: "Lee H"2.1 was on road tyres with a hell of a lot more power on a worse surface (York).

You are also irritating me with your misleading speculation and nothing actually backed up with real times so let's just leave it there.

I take drag racing quite seriously and the proof is in the times at the end of the day, nothing else.

I will bow out of your discussion now.

Enjoy the rest of your bank holiday weekend.

You completely invalidated your own argument by saying your time wasn't the best it could be. I'm not in any way saying a 2zz is even close to as fast as your turb, but I strongly stand by my reckoning that it could break into the 13's. But I'm saying perfect conditions, perfect driver etc. Just like book times. And in that same respect, I would think with your terminal speed, if you were to drag at pod, use launch control to spool the turbo up to full and give it a proper launch you'd be in the low 13's.

This is exactly why I gave the reference to a ROLLING DC5. When heroic launches are taken out of the equation.

mikey P · May 5, 2015, 21:10

Doodlepug have to say I kind of agree with your estimations but would like to see it proved too. Lee I would have thought your mr2 should be in the high 12s by comparison. (My old almost stock mk2 mr2 turbo just got in the high 12s with 258bhp, and must have been a lot heavier than a roadster with similar power.

doodlepugg · May 6, 2015, 18:51

Yeah, there's a monumental difference in doing a clutch slip start, and doing a redline launch. People that are used to their local airfield simply cannot compare their times to someone that launches at Pod. Walking down the strip in the evening, your shoes stick to the surface!

But still, if someone wants to slate and argue with me that's fine. Each to their own.

Anonymous · May 6, 2015, 18:58

I'd be interested in a santapod meet s:D

s:D it's been ages since I've been there

Lee H · May 7, 2015, 07:21

Quote from: "doodlepugg"Yeah, there's a monumental difference in doing a clutch slip start, and doing a redline launch.

I tried to bow out but I can't when I'm being accused of arguing and slating, I'm just trying to be realistic and have a discussion from experience.

Please tell me how much you would need to drop your 60ft to run a 13.9 given you were probably at full attack after the start to stay in lift? Genuine question.

doodlepugg · May 7, 2015, 09:32

It is LITERALLY all about the launch at Pod. Have you ever been? You could set your car on launch control at 5k rpm and dump the clutch and it'd just go, even on your slippy T1r's. 1 tenth 60ft can make up 3 tenths terminal, so 1.9 60ft in a 180hp 1000kg is not unrealistic. We're not talking times you can pull off all day every day. This is why I didn't go all out, I like my car drivable especially when I had a 200 mile drive home & work the following day. I would love to see you go 'all out' at pod. You'd get some brilliant times, and break something. I'll even prepare my best 'told you so' speech.
I'm in favour of a Pod meet s:)

s:)