Mini supercharger on 1zz

Started by Carolyn, February 26, 2016, 19:14

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Carolyn

I've just rebuilt a 1ZZ engine.  It's a spare I took out of my MRS  and I took it apart to see what was inside.  It's had new bearings, latest pistons, re-seated and re-sealed valves and new timing gear.
I was thinking about going for a 2ZZ for my car, but when I'm driving around normally, as we do 90% of the time, I realised I didn't want an engine that had to rev hard to give more power.  I want quick grunt when I press the loud pedal. So I started looking at supercharging.  Hubby, Dave, and I have done lots of racing cars and dragsters, and there's no doubt that if you want grunt lower down, supercharging is the way to go.

I've priced Toyota superchargers and they are, well, more money than I want to spend on a car that will never be worth more than £3.000.

So we're going for a mini supercharger. Yes we will have to make a mounting bracket to fix it to the side of the engine, and make a custom exhaust manifold to make space for it.  It's not going to be a simple job.  We have all the kit to do that, so we're going for it.

We'll learn a lot on the way, and there will, doubtless be teething problems, but after building a rocket powered car, we're fairly confident we can pull it off.  Cabbydave said it's been looked at before.  I'm sure it has.  I don't think it has been done, though.  I'd love to be proven wrong on that, because someone out there has already been through the learning curve.

Anyone who's interested, please take part in this thread., so we can share ideas.

I'll be posting pics as we go.  The engine is on the stand and the supercharger arrives on Monday..
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

Anonymous

#1
I'll get my popcorn on this.

As constructive suggestion I looked at fitting it in place of the ideller by the exhaust so using the stock belt and tensioner. Also you will need a bypass valve on that type of charger.

Carolyn

#2
Popcorn?  Please elucidate.
Yep it has a bypass valve with it, not yet sure how to operate it until I get a good look at it.  And yes, I agree with substituting it for the idler pulley. Somehow I doubt the stock belt will be the correct length, but belts of all lengths can be got.
Throttle body on the input side and the same with the MAF sensor.  Haven't figured out what to do about injectors yet!!  And there'll be loads of custom plumbing and wiring.  I think we're on the same page here.

We'll know more once we've got it mounted!

Should be interesting??
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

loadswine

#3
This sounds very interesting and something I think could work very well on the Roadster, once you manage to set it up. The superchargers are reasonably priced to get hold of, so there could be a few people who would like to do similar, if you can suss it all out. There was a guy called Carver over on Spyderchat, who did some work on this concept.  m http://www.spyderchat.com/forums/showth ... er+charger m   Hopefully bits on there, may be useful.
I think, with a bit of intercooling, this could be a great project.
I shall watch with great interest. Well done!  s:) :) s:)
No Roadster any more, Golf 7.5 GTi Performance

J03

#4
A guy on CelicaClub fitted one to his 1zz, obviously a different layout but maybe worth a look.
The Silver Shed - 2zz Rotrex ........  viewtopic.php?f=88&t=53969

Carolyn

#5
Quote from: "loadswine"This sounds very interesting and something I think could work very well on the Roadster, once you manage to set it up. The superchargers are reasonably priced to get hold of, so there could be a few people who would like to do similar, if you can suss it all out. There was a guy called Carver over on Spyderchat, who did some work on this concept.  m http://www.spyderchat.com/forums/showth ... er+charger m   Hopefully bits on there, may be useful.
I think, with a bit of intercooling, this could be a great project.
I shall watch with great interest. Well done!  s:) :) s:)
Where would you put the intercooler?
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

cabbydave

#6
Carolyn I have a spare charge cooler if you need to use that. I also have a small turbo with I think a t4 mount same as the mk2 mount. I was going to buy a ebay manifold at about £150 then go from there but the charger kit came along so I thought it easier to do that. I think Headcase had a look at doing the Mini or Merc compressor but passed on that. I do know a lot of Mini compressors failing but that could be down to badly looked after cars.

Carolyn

#7
Quote from: "cabbydave"Carolyn I have a spare charge cooler if you need to use that. I also have a small turbo with I think a t4 mount same as the mk2 mount. I was going to buy a ebay manifold at about £150 then go from there but the charger kit came along so I thought it easier to do that. I think Headcase had a look at doing the Mini or Merc compressor but passed on that. I do know a lot of Mini compressors failing but that could be down to badly looked after cars.

That cooler could be handy.  I think we have couple in the workshop - but they might be on the big side.  Let me know what you want for it.  The amount of miles I'll put on it,(not that many)  hopefully the supercharger will stand up!!

Thanks for the help, your experience is respected here.  I've done a lot of stuff but I'm new to these little cars, no point re-inventing the wheel!!
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

lamcote

#8
I just found the following from a 2008 thread:

"An Eaton M45 off a mini cooper-s. It will be a really tight fit. I did try one off a Mercades SLK but the ports were in the wrong locations to fit to I flogged it on ebay. Bespoke brackets & piping still to be fabricated.

sjspitz"
 
Not sure if he ever fitted this, best of luck with yours, it is a great idea.

You have prompted me to do some research into why superchargers are so often fitted directly on to the inlet manifold rather than blowing into a pipe leading to an intercooler and then to the engine, as with a turbo installation. I believe I have now discovered that this is because a positive displacement supercharger blowing into a pipe (rather than directly into a plenum/manifold) is extremely noisy. The reason for the odd shaped outlets on positive displacement superchargers is to provide noise attenuation. (Hence the reason for the rather odd flat and wide shape of the Mini's intercooler inlet, from the supercharger,  rather than being a simple pipe). This seems to be why the Rotrex option is more prevalent.

Another point I have picked up is that superchargers usually have to be fitted the right way up (for correct oil flow) so when you combine this packaging limitation with the need to also line up precisely with a suitable drive pulley and with the complexity of the plumbing/noise issue you begin to understand why this isn't done very often on a road car using a positive displacement supercharger.  

However, I really do hope you are able to pull it off, I still think a supercharged engine is very tempting.
Silver 2004 MR2 -  Unmodified but very shiny.

Carolyn

#9
Good steer on the oil-flow. We'll have to pay attention to that.  Hadn't thought about the noise!!  Probably have to figure out how to quiet it once we've got it working.
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

Carolyn

#10
Just found this - yes it's the other way round but it still gives very good info:
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

J03

#11
Here's the Celica thread...  m http://www.celica-club.co.uk/forum/inde ... 8-vvti-sc/ m

The Silver Shed - 2zz Rotrex ........  viewtopic.php?f=88&t=53969

Anonymous

#12
Not sure about that Celica one, you really want the belt to go at least half way round the pulley.

Carolyn

#13
I think the belt is just sitting loose.  Just realised all the work to get all the wiring, hoses and throttle cable to the throttle-body.  Must be mad!
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

JoeCool

#14
Rotrexes may be expensive, but you can see why they're a nice option! The one on the Mx-5 I rallied was no bigger than a hefty Alternator.

It would be nice to see if this can be done, but as ever there's no such thing as a cheap option for those of us who haven't spent a lifetime building fabrication/welding/mechanical skills!
2ZZ '02 Roadster

Wabbitkilla

#15
Space in the right place is always the issue with supercharging the 2.
I always thought a neat rotrex unit mounted where the aircon pump goes would be neat.
sjspitz gave up on supercharging and sold up in the end, the on he had was never going to fit.
Carver was doing good work on Spyderchat but disappeared after detonating a couple of cars, a shame as I really thought he was onto something.
Cute & fluffy animals were definitely hurt during the production of this post, there're plenty more where they came from
Aztec Bronze S2 Elise 111S
Campovolo Grey Abarth 595 Competizione

cabbydave

#16
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Space in the right place is always the issue with supercharging the 2.
I always thought a neat rotrex unit mounted where the aircon pump goes would be neat.
sjspitz gave up on supercharging and sold up in the end, the on he had was never going to fit.
Carver was doing good work on Spyderchat but disappeared after detonating a couple of cars, a shame as I really thought he was onto something.
Watch this space Rotrex plus bracket for charger where the a/c is mounted cooler ecu etc ready to go here.

Carolyn

#17
Quote from: "cabbydave"
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Space in the right place is always the issue with supercharging the 2.
I always thought a neat rotrex unit mounted where the aircon pump goes would be neat.
sjspitz gave up on supercharging and sold up in the end, the on he had was never going to fit.
Carver was doing good work on Spyderchat but disappeared after detonating a couple of cars, a shame as I really thought he was onto something.
Watch this space Rotrex plus bracket for charger where the a/c is mounted cooler ecu etc ready to go here.
Tempting... ah well, I'm committed now!
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

J03

#18
Always makes me chuckle when I handle the Rotrex, 200 extra horses in the palm of my hand   s:D :D s:D  

The Silver Shed - 2zz Rotrex ........  viewtopic.php?f=88&t=53969

wafers

#19
Could be interesting. I love the sound of a 'charger as well. Keep us posted on updates!

DoctorsDad

#20
Hi Guys,

What's the latest on this? Is it still a go-er?

Dave.

Carolyn

#21
Taken a while as Rocket Car business took over...  Finally got it mounted to the engine and all squared up on all three axes.  We'll be making a custom exhaust manifold to go round it all.  


Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

M.R.

#22
There is more than one thing wrong with that belt routing. Stock route is good, use that.

Carolyn

#23
Quote from: "M.R."There is more than one thing wrong with that belt routing. Stock route is good, use that.

That's just a alsh-up for alignment. But please do elaborate.  Obviously with the supercharger in the loop, it's not going to be 'stock'.
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

Anonymous

#24
Very impressive. Hats off too you. As for routing of the belt looks the same apart from the pulley now gone and a supercharger is it's place.