Mini supercharger on 1zz

Started by Carolyn, February 26, 2016, 19:14

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lamcote

#25
Oh wow, fantastic, can't wait for the detailed "How To" on this....

Is the supercharger outlet at the top or bottom?

Daft rhetorical question of the day: I presume there is clearance between the top of the rear subframe and the bottom of the supercharger once it goes in the engine bay?
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jvanzyl

#26
This looks brilliant!
Are we looking at the next Carolyn performance kit in the making?  :-) :-) :-)  Someone's gotta fill the gap of SP!

I mean who doesn't want a little sticker down the side saying "SUPERCHARGED".... ?  s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:
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Carolyn

#27
There's plenty of clearance for the supercharger.  The exhaust is probably going through a vertical tunnel welded into the subframe.  I intake at top, out put at bottom.  Next job is fabricating the intake plate and tube...
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Carolyn

#28
Quote from: "rbuckingham"Very impressive. Hats off too you. As for routing of the belt looks the same apart from the pulley now gone and a supercharger is it's place.

No M R is correct - that's not the way it should be routed.  We're going to have to add an extra small idler to get the clearances along the top of the belt.  Watch this space it's going to be trick
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Wabbitkilla

#29
Very interesting Carlyn .... I'm looking forward to seeing the project go forward.
Exhaust routing can always be sorted with fabrication.
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M.R.

#30
Quote from: "Carolyn"
Quote from: "M.R."There is more than one thing wrong with that belt routing. Stock route is good, use that.

That's just a alsh-up for alignment. But please do elaborate.  Obviously with the supercharger in the loop, it's not going to be 'stock'.
There is too little crank pulley coverage. It´s gonna slip. Wrong side of belt is in contact with tensioner pulley. It´s not good when grooved side of belt is in contact with smooth pulley. And there is 2 smooth pulleys in row. Belt could wander off.

You could keep stock route since supercharger replaces idler pulley, so route is similar. Cannot tell from pics if it gonna work that easily, but if necessary you can move supercharger up or down to make stock belt routing work without additional idler pulleys.

Anyway, nice to see someone working with supercharger. Too much turbo sh*t nowadays...   s:mrgreen: :mrgreen: s:mrgreen:

Carolyn

#31
Quote from: "M.R."
Quote from: "Carolyn"
Quote from: "M.R."There is more than one thing wrong with that belt routing. Stock route is good, use that.

That's just a alsh-up for alignment. But please do elaborate.  Obviously with the supercharger in the loop, it's not going to be 'stock'.
There is too little crank pulley coverage. It´s gonna slip. Wrong side of belt is in contact with tensioner pulley. It´s not good when grooved side of belt is in contact with smooth pulley. And there is 2 smooth pulleys in row. Belt could wander off.

You could keep stock route since supercharger replaces idler pulley, so route is similar. Cannot tell from pics if it gonna work that easily, but if necessary you can move supercharger up or down to make stock belt routing work without additional idler pulleys.

Anyway, nice to see someone working with supercharger. Too much turbo sh*t nowadays...   s:mrgreen: :mrgreen: s:mrgreen:

As I said before - that was a 'lash-up' to check alignment.  That's not even close to the right belt and (out of shot) it's pinched together with a pair of vice grips!  Rest assured we're going to use the traditional style routing.  There is little scope for varying the position of the supercharger as it turns out because of clearances in the engine bay, so we will be adding an extra idler.

Thanks for the input, though, 'cos we will doubtless get somethings wrong as we go and an external 'critical eye' is always a very good thing.  Good job we've got a spare car to play around with, as fitting it all in is quite a challenge.
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Carolyn

#32
Like this:?
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tommyzoom99

#33
this looks ace always liked a supercharger over a turbo, be interesting to see the power once its all complete.

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cheers tommy
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Carolyn

#34
Quote from: "lamcote"Oh wow, fantastic, can't wait for the detailed "How To" on this....

Is the supercharger outlet at the top or bottom?

Daft rhetorical question of the day: I presume there is clearance between the top of the rear subframe and the bottom of the supercharger once it goes in the engine bay?

Hmmm.... We forgot to allow for the slope of the engine.  So that was not a daft question.  It fouls on the subframe.  Ah well more fabrication to do.
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lamcote

#35
Oh no, really hope you get it sorted, this would be a great option to have. Based on your experience so far, and using the lessons you are learning, do you think this could become a realistic project for others to do?
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Carolyn

#36
Don't know yet.  Depends on how it goes from here.  We've got an old spare subframe in decent nick, so we're looking at modding it.  David (hubby) is planning to fabricate a tubular one, which would make the project more difficult and/or expensive for others to do.  We haven't exhausted all the possibilities of clearing the subframe yet.
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M.R.

#37
Quote from: "Carolyn"Like this:?
Yes. In addition you get more supercharger pulley coverage that way, and that is always a good thing. That thing needs around 20hp to rotate at 14000rpm, so belt slipping is real concern.

grog

#38
a rotrex is a great option, but they are hugely more expensive, as most OEM setups are eaton based, hence cheaper used.
however the Eaton will provide more low down power and the rotrex is better at high revs.

Jrichards20

#39
Subbed. Great idea looking forward to the progress
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J03

#40
The Rotrex pulls exactly the same as an Eaton (mp62) low down, but from 4k upwards it's obviously night & day  s:) :) s:)
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lamcote

#41
All the evidence I have seen suggests that a positive displacement supercharger (eg Eaton) will deliver significantly more torque below 4k revs than a Rotrex. If they were equivalent at low revs I can't think why anyone would use anything other than a Rotrex?
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J03

#42
Here's an old overlay I put together comparing stock 2zz, mp62 (Greddy kit) & Rotrex.

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justinread72

#43
Quote from: "Carolyn"Like this:?

Great work if you not seen the mighty car mods mini build on youtube you should as they came from down under to pick a new mini super charger kit up for there project and went through a lot to fit it to their old school mini with the A series engine

it would be worth seeing if you could make a kit to sell after as I really think if its a easy bolt on its a no brainer

good luck and more pics please

many thanks

grog

#44
Quote from: "J03"Here's an old overlay I put together comparing stock 2zz, mp62 (Greddy kit) & Rotrex.


it depends on sizing of the charger
most people would compare the charger options to achieve the same Max HP, (they assume it the max power which kills the engine)
if you do this the Rotrex will have less low torque,

people assume it's power that kills engines, but equally it can be low torque, or piston speed (revs)
if you compare the the same low down torque, the Rotrex is much stronger up top, as you show,

to do it thoroughly you'd need to set limits on low torque, max revs, and several other things,
you'd probably find the mid band power may be similar, with Rotrex better up top and PD better low down,

all that said i'd choose a rotrex, i just wish they were available a bit cheaper!

lamcote

#45
Absolutely right grog, that chart proves just how much more low end torque a positive displacement supercharger really does provide compared to a Rotrex. If the Greddy supercharger in this example was sized to give the same top end as the Rotrex the torque below 4k would be massive.
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J03

#46
And the charger would be absolutely massive as well. The example above is a real world choice between the 2, comparing a PD which provides the same top end potential is pointless as it'd never happen. But yes, I get the point of a direct pound for pound comparison  s:) :) s:)
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Carolyn

#47
We're busy building a tubular rear sub-frame right now, to give us plenty of room for exhaust, supercharger and plumbing.

I don't see this as a bolt-on kit, it would be quite expensive.  More a project for those with tools and skills.

The whole reason for doing this it get get more bottom to mid-range grunt.  I'm trying to avoid having to spin the hell out of it.  Not because it's better for the engine (the engine is very happy to spin hard) but just because I want the power lower down to suit the kind of driving I do most of the time.

It's a personal taste kind of thing.
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lamcote

#48
Sounds good but a shame about the complexity.

Isn't it possible to use a longer drive shaft to the supercharger allowing you to mount the supercharger unit to the left hand end of the engine thereby moving the supercharger out of the way of the exhaust. This would mean it could be mounted further away from the subframe because you would only need room for the shaft past the block rather than the whole unit?
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jeffsimply

#49
Quote from: "Carolyn"We're busy building a tubular rear sub-frame right now, to give us plenty of room for exhaust, supercharger and plumbing.

I don't see this as a bolt-on kit, it would be quite expensive.  More a project for those with tools and skills.

The whole reason for doing this it get get more bottom to mid-range grunt.  I'm trying to avoid having to spin the hell out of it.  Not because it's better for the engine (the engine is very happy to spin hard) but just because I want the power lower down to suit the kind of driving I do most of the time.

It's a personal taste kind of thing.

Agree with you, I think we're spoilt with torque these days on most cars, so things like a 1.8 NA Roadster feel slow, if it had extra torque it would make it a lot more comfortable IMO.