Mini supercharger on 1zz

Started by Carolyn, February 26, 2016, 19:14

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Carolyn

#50
Quote from: "lamcote"Sounds good but a shame about the complexity.

Isn't it possible to use a longer drive shaft to the supercharger allowing you to mount the supercharger unit to the left hand end of the engine thereby moving the supercharger out of the way of the exhaust. This would mean it could be mounted further away from the subframe because you would only need room for the shaft past the block rather than the whole unit?

We considered that. It generates as many issues as it solves, I'm afraid.  We're not interested in making a business out of this.  For us it's just an interesting one-off project.

Once the subframe jig has been built, however, they could be produced in some volume.  The exhaust will be the same.  Then, perhaps, someone who is in the business could take it over and produce the stuff.  There'll be a ready market for the subframe, I should think.

I've yet to see a real performance enhancement for these cars that isn't expensive.
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Jrichards20

#51
Quote from: "Carolyn"Once the subframe jig has been built, however, they could be produced in some volume.  The exhaust will be the same.  Then, perhaps, someone who is in the business could take it over and produce the stuff.  There'll be a ready market for the subframe, I should think.

  s:D :D s:D  yes I think there will be a market for the subframe! I've been looking at one in America but they are just so expensive. A reasonably priced tubular subframe would probably get quite a few takers!
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jeffsimply

#52
How much is the one from America?

I can't imagine it will ever be cheap but are we talking more/less/the same as the one from Toyota @ circa £300 ?

Jrichards20

#53
I'm quoting figures off the top of my head here, but I think it was $600+ then add shipping and duty on top of that and it was rather expensive! I don't think they have as much need for subframes like us though so I doubt the demand is high enough to get enough produced to lower the price.
[strike]2005 Black - MR2 Roadster[/strike]
[strike]2004 Sable MR2 Roadster TURBO[/strike]
[strike]2000 Red - MR2 Roadster[/strike]
[strike]Lotus Elise S2 - Silver[/strike]
[strike]2000 Blue - MR2 V6 Roadster[/strike]
Street Triple 765 RS

Carolyn

#54
Can't see it being as cheap as the pressed steel Toyota one.  But they are all out production and sooner or later the stock will be gone.
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jvanzyl

#55
Quote from: "Carolyn"We considered that. It generates as many issues as it solves, I'm afraid.  We're not interested in making a business out of this.  For us it's just an interesting one-off project.

Que major disappointment from all the subscribers to this build thread!....
Well, if one person can do it, I think that's the start!  :-) :-) :-)
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J03

#56
I'm currently having a tubular subframe jigged but haven't got a set price yet. How much would you envisage yours costing Carolyn?
The Silver Shed - 2zz Rotrex ........  viewtopic.php?f=88&t=53969

Carolyn

#57
Quote from: "J03"I'm currently having a tubular subframe jigged but haven't got a set price yet. How much would you envisage yours costing Carolyn?

I'll come up with a price once we've built one.  Don't like to guess but it would be cheaper than paying someone else to build the jig.
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lamcote

#58
My concern about non standard subframes is what insurers will think. It's such a fundamental part of the car, won't they want to see some evidence that the structure is suitable and safe (in both design and construction), and if so, how would that be demonstrated?
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Jrichards20

#59
Quote from: "lamcote"My concern about non standard subframes is what insurers will think. It's such a fundamental part of the car, won't they want to see some evidence that the structure is suitable and safe (in both design and construction), and if so, how would that be demonstrated?

You will have to ask your own insurance about price increases, but I highly doubt they will be wanting evidence of a safe and suitable structure seeming that you can change your wheels, tyres, suspension, engine and a whole load of other things that will effect how the car is suitable/safe in a crash etc much more than changing the sub frame ever would, yet they don't require any safety standards to be demonstrated.
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[strike]2004 Sable MR2 Roadster TURBO[/strike]
[strike]2000 Red - MR2 Roadster[/strike]
[strike]Lotus Elise S2 - Silver[/strike]
[strike]2000 Blue - MR2 V6 Roadster[/strike]
Street Triple 765 RS

lamcote

#60
Maybe, but most people fit wheels, suspension bits etc made by large reputable companies with a long track record of selling products which are demonstrably robust and safe, and even then, if a wheel or spring does break that isn't a catastrophic impact on the integrity of the vehicle. Plus, surely all tyres, aftermarket wheels etc pass British/EU Standards which the insurers must expect and rely on. I can't believe I would be insured if I made my own tyres and started driving round on them?

Likewise, if someone gets a subframe built by a local garage as a one off, where is the safety track record of that part, and if it fails, the whole of the back of the car (and the engine) falls off! If I was insuring that car I would be quite worried!

Sorry if I sound like a jobsworth HSE freak...... I'm not defending the insurers I just wonder whether it is a point worth considering?
Silver 2004 MR2 -  Unmodified but very shiny.

Jrichards20

#61
Even if a wheel or Spring does brake that isn't a big impact on the vehicle??? Are you kidding me lol! I'd rather my subframe not be structurally as strong than be driving along at 70 on the motorway and have a wheel shatter or a strut collapse. Or my brakes fail or my engine spontaneously combust  s:) :) s:)  i'd be more worried about the majority of mr2s driving around with chocolate subframes that only take a whack of a hammer to disintegrate.

Insurers also can't keep a database of all "reputable" companies that provide aftermarket items. i think your thinking to much into it, but if your worried give your own insurer a call to check. With the modifications that go on to car it's not an uncommon thing for one of parts etc to be a structural part of a car.
[strike]2005 Black - MR2 Roadster[/strike]
[strike]2004 Sable MR2 Roadster TURBO[/strike]
[strike]2000 Red - MR2 Roadster[/strike]
[strike]Lotus Elise S2 - Silver[/strike]
[strike]2000 Blue - MR2 V6 Roadster[/strike]
Street Triple 765 RS

jeffsimply

#62
Quote from: "lamcote"Maybe, but most people fit wheels, suspension bits etc made by large reputable companies with a long track record of selling products which are demonstrably robust and safe, and even then, if a wheel or spring does break that isn't a catastrophic impact on the integrity of the vehicle. Plus, surely all tyres, aftermarket wheels etc pass British/EU Standards which the insurers must expect and rely on. I can't believe I would be insured if I made my own tyres and started driving round on them?

Likewise, if someone gets a subframe built by a local garage as a one off, where is the safety track record of that part, and if it fails, the whole of the back of the car (and the engine) falls off! If I was insuring that car I would be quite worried!

Sorry if I sound like a jobsworth HSE freak...... I'm not defending the insurers I just wonder whether it is a point worth considering?

How many pictures of failed Rota wheels have you seen online?

Providing you declare it as a "modified suspension component" so that your backside is covered I really can't see it being a problem. The only time you might come under scrutiny is if you barrel rolled through a school bus stop, and I very much doubt anyone would say it was the subframe that caused the accident in that scenario.

Carolyn

#63
Perhaps someone should start another thread on subframes.  This one is for supercharging.... and lots of relevant input will be needed.
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lamcote

#64
Re the discussion I started on the other thread, I thought it might be possible to create a mounting plate which hangs off the left hand end of the engine for the supercharger so it is mounted on the engine, and run the driveshaft and secondary belt to it as I described. This would allow the standard exhaust manifold and subframe to be retained. The only fabrication required would be the supercharger mount.
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Carolyn

#65
It's a thought.. we'll take a look at the possibilities... I'll let you know.
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Carolyn

#66
Just had a look at #2 car and the supercharger as it sits on the engine on the engine stand.  It would actually mount on the gear box (which would be ok..) Bearing in mind that we have to the direction of rotation, I looks as though we'd simply be transferring the subframe clearance issue to the other side of the car. .Bugger - 'cos it was a nice idea!
A Rotrex would be much simpler but they ain't cheap.
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lamcote

#67
I am totally guessing all this because I don't know what the issues are but couldn't the supercharger be mounted up high, level with the cylinder head, where the air filter box is, out of the way of everything? The belt from the driveshaft could run up past the side of the exhaust manifold to meet the supercharger drive.

As you can tell I am desperate for you to find a simple solution to this because it is such a great project.
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Carolyn

#68
I can tell you're very interested - sent you a PM.

We're not fazed by fabricating subframes and manifolds.  We've done a lot of high-end fabrication, so it's really not a worry.  There's no reason why we cant do two subframes and manifolds if you want to play too!
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lamcote

#69
I would love to get involved, what lets me down are my practical skills and a total lack of tools and facilities. That's why I so want there to be a simple solution because I reckon a cheap supercharger on a 1zz is THE perfect engine for the MR2. Can't tell you how pleased I was that you were giving it a go. I reckon a simple DIY solution would be very popular.

Be interesting to hear people's thoughts?

(No PM arrived)
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Carolyn

#70
Sent another PM...
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shnazzle

#71
I fully agree. The GT25 commonly used is a great turbo for the MR2 but there's still lag. A supercharger would really bring it home as far as driveability goes.

As my car has passed 66k, I'm starting to look into where the future of my 2 lies. 1zz Turbo, 2zz, 2zz turbo, oorr....1zz supercharged?  s:) :) s:)

Keeping my eyes on this thread  s:) :) s:)
...neutiquam erro.

jvanzyl

#72
Personally I think Carolyn made the case at the beginning of the thread really well for the use of the supercharger over the other options  :-) :-) :-)  

I'm totally sold on the idea and subscribed to the thread as I think it's a great idea, having driven a WRX and experienced power without character (personal opinion), I think the supercharger would go a long way to preserve the character of the engine and provide the power....
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Carolyn

#73
If enough people want to play, a short production run of subframes and manifolds can be sorted.  We have probably the best Tig welder in the country right round the corner.  A matter of building a couple of jigs and notching a bunch of good quality steel tube.
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Carolyn

#74
Also - there's other work to do, which the group could get stuck into.  Fueling - control and injectors (2zz?)

Many of you have far more experience than I with this stuff on a roadster.  Then there's the plumbing for the air/intercooler.  Someone with turbo experience would be handy.

Spread the workload -get a group result, which would be very very cool.  The MROC supercharger kit!?
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