LTFT on eManage Blue

[shnazzle]

I'd like to place an order for an installation of the box of trickery with aforementioned "GoGo" button!!! @ ding day if possible???

Yup drop me a pm

[shnazzle]

Further adjustments required via a capacitor or timer delay relay.

Reason is, if you switch gears in an area where the car wants to be in closed loop, but you're forcing it open, then you have a sudden judder as you switch from the emanage map to the car map.
So it needs a little 1 second  delay to allow you to switch gears and stay "in-map"

[shnazzle]

All is not well.
Managed to get my obd2 reader working today. Patience was key.
Then I put 4 large displays on the screen in Torque; STFT1, STFT2, LTFT1, LTFT2.

Then I watched in horror as my LTFT was hovering around 25% (the maximum it will trim) pretty much whenever it's in closed loop.
Good news is, whenever it's in open loop, it always maxes out at 4.7%. Which is an odd number, but at least it means that when I'm going for it, the ECU isn't battling me and I'm running purely on the emanage. So as far as that "trick" goes, it works a charm.
Do need to establish though whether the trick isn't ruining my closed loop fueling. Wasn't like this before the Hurricane and the throttle body though.

Need to configure my Torque again because it didn;'t actually log anything useful.
But, LTFT was pretty much always 24-25% when idling and toodling around, and upwards of 13-14% when in closed loop but moving along.

What I could really do with is a remap of the emanage methinks. Properly. With wideband and dyno. To accommodate the new mods and the open loop trickery

[jonbill]

It sounds like a lot of faffing around (aka fun) and ultimately,  compromise.
If you had all the knowledge you have now, but hadn't invested anything yet, would you still start with a piggy back, or would you go for a standalone ECU?

[shnazzle]

I'd go standalone today if I could afford it. That would have been the case from day 1.
There's no comparison really. Especially with Toyota's ECUs. They're too darn clever.

Given the same budgetary constraints I'd do the same mods again.

I;m thoroughly enjoying the farting about, and learning a lot as I go.
Reason I'd do the same is that with the piggyback, I know I can tinker a bit and the stock ecu will protect my engine if I screw something up. It'll cut out or pull back timing for me based on knock sensor input.

To get the same level of protection from a standalone, I'd need to spend 1500-2000 on one of the more expensive units. And I'd never do that unless I was running some serious mods.

So far so good, no logged knocking. So tinkering continues  s:) s:)

[jonbill]

Fair play [emoji41]

[shnazzle]

Forgot to mention...
In my brief stint with a working obd2 I noticed that the car didn't show it was in open loop when the trick was active.

This was when the car was fully warmed up.
So tps control does not open loop make.  s:) s:)  
It must rpm-based as well.

What would be good fun is using the trace function, log a run where I hit every cell. Then cross-reference that with the fuel status to see where the car triggers open loop. With the trickery off.

[shnazzle]

In case anybody is still reading;

I've left the car be for a bit after adjusting my airflows to 0 (via the front panel pots). The previous values were set in by Noble on Rob's car with the 57i intake. I have no idea what the Hurricane intake does to the MAF readings so I figured I'd set it to 0, and let the car run its course and adjust LTFT.

End result after 3 weeks is very simple;
When I'm in open loop (which now oddly seems to coincide pretty much with the open loop mod), the car has a LTFT of 4.7 across the board. I'm pretty happy with that. Not sure what it based that on, and it's a very odd number to have, but if that's all it's trimming when I'm trying to run on my map, I'm happy with that.

In closed loop; full on max fuel trim. 25. 24-25. How I don't have a CEL for that I don't know. I thought it would flag P0171 or P174 for running too lean.
So, unmetered air basically. When I got home I sat on the drive and adjusted the first airflow dial until STFT was showing around -18 to -20. I'll run that for a while to see if I can bring the idle range LTFT back to as close to 0 as possible.
Then I'll apply that airflow correction to the over 4 dials to cover the rev range. The MAF compensation for idle should be the same as for high rev full throttle I reckon.
Then I'll reset ECU and run that for a while.

That should then leave me with LTFT values that aren;t based on airflow (due to the hurricane and throttle body), but on map "issues". Then I can start tuning out the LTFT from closed loop ranges and let the stock ECU do what it does best.

[jvanzyl]

Still reading  :-) :-) :-)  Waiting for you to have figured this out so I can enjoy the fruits of your labour after you install it on mine!

[shnazzle]

Well to be honest John the best way in my humble opinion is to install the mod and take it to somewhere like Redline or another good tuner who can make sure they map the car to get the best out of WOT and pickup while keeping the closed loop areas clear.
Giving them the mod allows them a bit more range to play with.

My approach is the peasant approach, not wanting to shell out 400 quid for a map that will get me either nothing or a few HP.

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[jvanzyl]

My approach is the peasant Mk2 version. Find another peasant who's got the skillz and borrow them ( the peasant ) and get them to work their magic on the car...

[shnazzle]

That's the "lazy peasant" approach

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[shnazzle]

The long and short of it is that I need a wideband AFR gauge.
So much easier and quicker. Instead of waiting for LTFT to come around, just look at what AFR it's running.
Zero map, log stock AFR in closed loop, then go from there.

Hey ho.

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[lamcote]

Yes, definitely still reading. Are you saying the TPS mod now seems to be behaving as initially expected?

I can't understand how you have such a massive STFT adjustment if you haven't changed anything for 3 weeks? Surely it should have fed through to the LTFT by now?

[shnazzle]

No not stft, LTFT. I should have specified  s:) s:)  
STFT swings up and down as expected around -1 to +1. LTFT is stuck at 25 or slightly less.

But yes, the mod seems to be working. I was even trying to get it to go into open loop before the vtec map kicks in but the mod always kicked it into open loop sooner. So yes, I'm still claiming that to be a success and something I'd recommend for anybody with the EMB

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[lamcote]

OK, it's still puzzling if that closed loop LTFT hasn't fed into the open loop LTFT in some way?

[shnazzle]

The 4.7 has to come from somewhere. But it's exactly 4.675 I believe, in closed loop, regardless of rpm.



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[shnazzle]

I cheated. Went for a drive for a couple hours with Helen and figured it was a good opportunity to try to hit as many of the closed loop areas under 3k rpm as I could.

End result; 0.8 and 1.6 across both banks. Result!

And also in the open loop. So, better than 4.7.

Two notes;
1) the stock ECU has SO many cells. Where my EMB is by 10% steps in throttle and 500rpm in revs, the stock ECU literally seems to go in 1% and 10rpm steps.

2) the stock ECU extrapolates LTFTs heavily across ranges.
Once it had determined 0.8 and 1.6,it applied it to a massive range. From 1k to 4k across the board for a whole block of throttle.
So that's interesting

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