Yet another Induction kit idea......

tets · July 1, 2016, 14:02

Sorry to hijack but this is where i'm at with building one - Ramair filter, Silicone tube and an old cut down airbox (specifically to keep the veins and airflow)

Lots of interesting reading above. I left the plastic curve there to try and deflect any hot air over the filter - might not work but seemed a fair assumption at the time.

I've not decided how long the hose needs to be yet but reading above i may need to make it shorter to sit behind the battery - i was under the same impression that closer to the vent would be better!!

No idea whether the pic will work as it's the first time i've used dropbox!!

The Other Stu · July 1, 2016, 14:13

Not hijacking at all. It' entirely open to not only suggestions, but other ideas.
It's a common discussion point. Thanks for joining the party s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Be interesting to find out how it works for you.

The hose needs to be really quite short.

tets · July 1, 2016, 14:20

anytime - i don't get on much but enjoy a good read when I do!! At least the pic worked this time - tried unsuccessfully once before!!

What did surprise me is there appears to be no performance gain to be made - me being used to the old style more air = more fuel = more power attitude of the 80's and 90's

I will need to cut it down - Like I said above, I was planning on getting it as close to the vent as possible but that appears not to be the best place.

cheers
Steve

The Other Stu · July 6, 2016, 23:06

I'm getting to the end of my tether with this one.

I'm starting to think that whoever mentioned the Spectre part might be right, although I'm pretty sure some people use these already?

Do you have a spectre MAF holder? Does it work OK?

Here's where I'm at. I decided after the failed K&N cone (which probably has nothing wrong with it), I'd get one of these fake CDA carbon things.
Seems absolutely fine. Brand spanking new. Comes with 3 adaptors which was useful, plus the hose and everything.

Fitted it. Nice and tight. Definitely no stray air gaps. Turned over and instantly started chugging. Not as badly as before, mind, where it went down to about 500rpm, choked and went out, but definitely chugging and sounding like it's gasping for air. RPM was actually OK - i let it warm up and it drifted down to about 750RPM which is normal.

As above, put the hose so that it was popping out the air intake. Even took the air intake off (what a PITA that always is) to make sure I pulled it as far forward as I could. Definitely tons of air available.

Do you really think the two teeny weeny fins on the OEM air box make that much difference? It's the only thing I can really change.Everything else is absolutely spot on. Actually, one more thing I could do..... put a stripped out filter in the airbox and connect a cone or the CDA directly to the bottom of the air box. That might work. You need to use a stripped-out filter because the air box isn't air-tight without a filter in. I have an old cheap chinese one I can rip apart.

Miles: if you're reading this, if and when we next meet up for the other, I'll take the top of an air box off you - let me know how much.

ChrisGB · July 7, 2016, 13:59

"Do you really think the two teeny weeny fins on the OEM air box make that much difference?"

Yes, the vanes shape the airflow for the sensor and the ECU is calibrated for this flow state. Take the vanes away and the flow state is different and the MAF is no longer producing the same output relative to the airflow.

The Other Stu · July 7, 2016, 14:27

Quote from: "ChrisGB""Do you really think the two teeny weeny fins on the OEM air box make that much difference?"

Yes, the vanes shape the airflow for the sensor and the ECU is calibrated for this flow state. Take the vanes away and the flow state is different and the MAF is no longer producing the same output relative to the airflow.

Cheers Chris. They're not really vanes though are they? more like two very thin strips of plastic.

When I first saw this, I was expecting almost fins inside the box itself, worming the air in a particular way.
In reality, it's a tube that looks like this looking from the end

I'll see if I can get a box, rip it to bits and see what happens.

I'm sure there's someone else who used the spectre kit here?

MilesH · July 7, 2016, 19:09

Quote from: "The Other Stu"I have an old cheap chinese one I can rip apart.

Miles: if you're reading this, if and when we next meet up for the other, I'll take the top of an air box off you - let me know how much.

No problem! I'll put it to one side.

If you want to pop over sometime I have no doubt we could sort this and I have a few parts we can try s:)

s:)

The Other Stu · July 7, 2016, 22:05

that might not be a bad idea. I'm stupid busy right now, but I'll see if I can work something out.

shnazzle · July 8, 2016, 06:53

As you'll have noticed, the important thing here is what airflow the MAF measures. The MAF is also calibrated and the intake has been designed around that calibration. Any changes to that and the MAF is no longer "in tune" with the car.
Hence the use of a cut up stock MAF and expensive Eliseparts mafs.

Also, by using less restrictive filters you're not really increasing the amount of air the engine uses. You're just making it easier for the engine to suck in the air it asks for. Hence sometimes the more direct throttle response.
The only thing in the entire setup that MAY have a performance gain is the positioning behind the battery to get the coldest airflow.

So, either mimic the vanes, cut up a stock intake, or buy a designed MAF holder.
Alternatively... There's the MAF Mod. This is designed around changing the structure of the intake tube (no veins, raised maf) and using bigger injectors to compensate.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

The Other Stu · July 8, 2016, 08:22

Cheers Patrick s:)

s:)

I was trying with the cold air intake behind the battery. In fact, the last attempt I had was exactly like the one with the ducting that went almost into the side pod as someone else did above.

The MAF holder was one of these btw
m http://www.jcwhitney.com/2000-2005-toyo ... 005j1.jcwx m

And I quote
" All Spectre products are designed to meet or exceed OEM specifications. "

As I mentioned, I'm sure other people said they'd used one of these. I found the details on the spyderchat forum.

I think I said in my first post, I'm not trying to get any additional power, I'm just trying to get a little more throaty noise. The car sometimes sounds like a whiny Ford Sierra being thrashed! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Essex2Visuvesi · July 21, 2016, 22:02

Ignore me need to read the thread thoroughly

With regards to the vanes and "How much difference do they make?"
Ask any RX8 owner who has messed with the stock intake system, how much difference they make

I'm in the process of creating my own induction kit from one of these kits:-

m http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230795711637 m

The filter is being binned, I was only really after the alloy pipework, this will be connected to a BMC carbon dynamics DCA filter (kicking around from another project) located where the stock airbox lives

Will it work? no idea

The Other Stu · July 21, 2016, 23:00

Quote from: "Essex2Visuvesi"Ignore me need to read the thread thoroughly

With regards to the vanes and "How much difference do they make?"
Ask any RX8 owner who has messed with the stock intake system, how much difference they make

I'm in the process of creating my own induction kit from one of these kits:-

m http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230795711637 m

The filter is being binned, I was only really after the alloy pipework, this will be connected to a BMC carbon dynamics DCA filter (kicking around from another project) located where the stock airbox lives

Will it work? no idea

No worries s:)

s:)
To recap, I bought one of these

It's a MAF holder, specifically designed.
I put a proper silicon tube (which is way bigger than the stock one) connected to it, with both a Carbon filter and originally a Genuine K&N one connected to the other end.

Neither worked. It appears there's a problem (and I think you may find it with the one you've bought too).
If you look into the air filter box (and I've put a picture somewhere, but I can't find it right now) ,you'll see 2 small fins which move the air in a particular way. I think it's these that make all the difference.

The power is just entirely drained with both filters on my car. I don't have a performance problem usually, but as soon as I've tried any induction mods, the power is just awful. With the K&N, the engine dies.

Essex2Visuvesi · July 22, 2016, 00:08

Will be cutting up my airbox to investigate the vanes to see if I can create the same sort of thing s:)

s:)

The RX8 has a mesh to stabilise the airflow just before the MAF and removing this make it run like a dog. So there could be some truth in the missing vanes causing the issue. After all why would they put them in (it costs money) if they were not needed?

I shall report back this weekend with my findings

inside · August 12, 2016, 11:05

Slightly off topic, but related. All that got that cheap carbon airbox filters... do you oil them before use?

Carolyn · August 12, 2016, 12:53

I've read a few studies on induction kits. The consensus seems to be that stock is the best....

Ceebe · August 12, 2016, 18:49

What bend do you need on the silicone elbow? Read some say 45, others say 30... Or do they both work?

The Other Stu · August 12, 2016, 21:52

I was trying both. The stock is around 45 degrees.

Ceebe · August 13, 2016, 07:31

Quote from: "The Other Stu"I was trying both. The stock is around 45 degrees.

And did they both work? I know the best way is to look at it myself, so should probably just stop being lazy! s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

tets · September 10, 2016, 17:56

After loads of reading I made this one using a stock intake (to keep the veins) which I cut down with a dremmel, a new ramair filter and 45 degree hose.

Fitted it today and not sure i've any more power but it certainly goes aswell as ever and sounds great!!

I think everything cost me about 30 quid all in from ebay!!