My first post ...... another pre-cat death in the family

Anonymous · January 14, 2005, 17:08

Hi everybody!

After months of reading the various MR2 forums (indeed, thanks to you guys I've recently purchased a Road Angel and was about to purchase the lowering springs!), I thought I would add my first post. Although, it is not a happy one! After reading all sorts of threads on 'Pre-cat' failure, I feel obliged to inform you all that my 2000 Roadster is now poorly in a Toyota garage. So add me to the unenviable list of victims!!

Yes, my faithful little motor (not one problem in the previous 52k miles) started to show all the 'classic' signs of pre-cat failure just before Christmas (which was particularly noticeable when I could not even overtake a tractor on New Years Day!)

I took my car (armed with numerous printouts from the forum – cheers!) to Toyota and verbally informed the service department to the likely cause of damage. After a week in the garage I was told that the Cat needed to be replaced but the pre-cats were OK. The Cat was replaced. However, whilst travelling to pick the car up, I was told that one of the pre-cats was missing and I needed to also replace the manifold. Unfortunately, my trust in the 'famous' Toyota reliability (this being the reason I went for the MR2 above the Elise) lead me to believe that an extended warranty would not be required, big mistake!! I've now paid approx £1200 to get the car repaired!

I am now preparing to see my engine go down the pan and drink oil like I drink beer on a Friday night! I have no problem in paying for a new manifold and Cat (I took the risk with not extending the warranty), but the thought that a poor design is likely to kill the engine is very upsetting! I have just rang the Toyota Customers Service and expressed my concern and await a call back from their Technical Department.

Has anybody 'fought' Toyota regarding the pre-cat problem and if so, did Toyota give any financial contribution to a new engine?

Also, assuming the engine will die slowly, is there a 'parts and labour/ warranty' package available that I can purchase to guard against the engine dying later in the year?

I would be extremely grateful for any suggestions!

Right, off to the pub I go ....for a good moan!

Andy

Peter Wright · January 14, 2005, 17:32

Toyota Lexus are having problems with thier pre cats also
m http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/ ... opic=18839 m

Anonymous · January 14, 2005, 22:12

Quoteis there a 'parts and labour/ warranty' package available that I can purchase to guard against the engine dying later in the year?

I have just purchased a policy with warrantydirect for £220/year which includes engine failure etc etc and breakdown cover, you have to haggle a little to get them to agree to have the car repaired at a toyota garage if the unthinkable happens

I got my 2 a month ago and (touch wood) have had no problems - im loving it!

darrenjuggins · January 16, 2005, 00:39

Hi Andy,

Sorry to hear about your problem and your bill....

As for stopping the engine wear problem, I really don't think you can, mine just gave up at 61,500 just after the 60k service, no symptoms before hand !

The only hope is that, the engine will be replaced by toyota as a poorly manufactured part.

My whole cat assembly was replaced and substancial cost (as you have found out) by my extended warranty, but the actual engine replacement, labour, £1,400 worth of parts, etc, was paid for by Toyota themselves.

all I paid for the engine replacement was the sparkplugs, beleive it or not !

So if you do have an engine failure, then toyota my well stand the cost as long as your service record is upto date !

As discussed in previous threads the two issues my well not be related, but unfortunately do seem to happen close together, if the engine is dying, it may cause the cat / pre-cats to fail prematurely !

So - hmmm have i just given you good or bad news

!!

hmmm well at least you have a little more info now.

hope everything goes well when you get it back.

Cheers

Darren J

New engine, new pre cat, new cat and many other items replaced by Toyota - but I still love the car.

Anonymous · January 17, 2005, 13:28

Thanks for the advice guys!! These forums' are brilliant!

I gave a call to 'Warrantydirect' this morning and have paid for a 12 month (+ 1 month free) extended warranty for £215.

My car should be ready for collection tomorrow (unless anything else goes wrong!) after having the manifold and cat replaced. I am assuming that, in the eyes of the Toyota garage, the car will be returned fully fixed with no outstanding faults. As a result, I will hope to claim that any engine damage/ failure that may occur in the future is not a direct consequence of the pre cat failure (although 'unofficially' we all know this may not be the case).

I wonder what effect this type of failure will have on the second hand market, particularly if they become more common place in the future?

I'll keep you all up-dated with the 'recovery' process!

Cheers

darrenjuggins · January 17, 2005, 14:47

Hi Andy,

Hope all goes well after you pick the car up.

Even when mine was loosing all it ran really well, so please, do check your all before all long runs and also at least weekly.

I had done an 800 mile stint with no issues (oil checked before and after) then I travelled 100 miles and back to Nottingham and then - 4 litres gone, just like that.

Best be safe than sorry.... I hope you don't have anymore problems, but for-warned is for-armed.

Cheers

Darren J

Anonymous · January 17, 2005, 15:13

Thanks Darren,

I travel 70 miles a day in my MR2, so I assume I will have to regularly check the oil during lunch breaks and at weekends?

Assuming that I regularly check the oil and fill up when required, would I be right in suggesting that my car could continue like a 'creaking gate' for a while, or is more likely that the car would just die after time?

Also, how long did it take for the dealer to replace your engine?

Again, thanks for all the info, very much appreciated!

Anonymous · January 19, 2005, 23:54

My engine survived a pre-cat (or warm up cat) failure. I cought it just in time before high back end pressure had a chance to warp the engine.

I heard of a few cases (without extended warranties) where Toyota agreed to pay for all the parts (i.e. a new engine) but the customer had to pay the cost of labour...

I'd get hold of my legal insurance and get them to put pressure on Toyota. The aim being to obtain some good compromise with them.

so.simple · January 20, 2005, 01:13

Quote from: "phat"I heard of a few cases (without extended warranties) where Toyota agreed to pay for all the parts (i.e. a new engine) but the customer had to pay the cost of labour...

And there's my case. I didn't even pay for the labour: http://www.mr2roc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5275

Anonymous · January 20, 2005, 09:18

Hi,

I pick up the MR2 tomorrow (Friday) – and really cannot wait! The Toyota garage has completed the installation of the new Cat (£614 + VAT) and manifold (£395 + VAT) at a combined cost of approx £1300 (luckily I have saved in the region of £300 in petrol costs since I last drove the car to work on Friday 17th December – been hitching rides from the girlfriend and mates!).

FYI, one of the pre-cat discs within my old manifold had fallen into the Cat, so I asked if the garage would gut the remaining disc rather than buy a new manifold. They would only do this if I signed a disclaimer that sheds any responsibly of the garage if there was any future damage caused to the engine (apparently there is a chance that the engine would 'over-fuel' without the pre-cat discs!??! News to me).

I hope that my new extended warranty will cover any future problems, however I'll heed your advice regarding contributions paid by Toyota towards past engine failures (although I did not feel too confident after speaking to Customer Relations!). Thanks for the info guys!

The first thing I'll do tomorrow is buy some oil and keep it safe in the car in case of 'lay-by emergencies'!! First, let's hope it gets me home from the garage – finger's crossed!

loadswine · January 20, 2005, 10:34

Glad to hear that you are getting your 2 back, let's hope its OK now.
I've never heard of the " over fuelling" where precats are removed. Maybe some of our more technically advanced members can tell us if this artistic licence on behalf of MrT.
Good luck. s:? :? s:?

Tem · January 20, 2005, 10:36

I bet it was just their way of saying "We don't want to do it and will give you a bogus reason why it's dangerous" s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

markiii · January 20, 2005, 10:37

It won't overfuel per see, as the o2 sensors are before teh cat matrix anyway.

What will happen is any unburnt fuel won't no be absorbed by the cat, so you will get some slight popping especially on overun, sounds good though, and does no harm.

Anonymous · January 20, 2005, 12:00

Quote from: "markiii"It won't overfuel per see, as the o2 sensors are before the cat matrix anyway.

What will happen is any unburnt fuel won't no be absorbed by the cat, so you will get some slight popping especially on overun, sounds good though, and does no harm.

I wanna gut my cats now, that sounds awesome.

markiii · January 20, 2005, 12:05

with a H&S it does

Anonymous · January 20, 2005, 12:28

jon, you may the first person on record who's managed to find a shop that will extract the precats. Sign that waiver and have 'em do it, but be sure they understand that the header must be thoroughly cleaned before reinstallation.

After I put on a dual exhaust system, I was getting some occasional faint popping and burbling noises on deceleration. After removing the precats, those sounds got quite noticeable and give the car a more agressive note.

Anonymous · January 20, 2005, 13:26

Hi,

Unfortunately, I bottled it (it was Friday evening and I was stressing out!) and did not sign the waiver to have the remaining pre-cat disc gutted. As a result, I now have a brand new Manifold (which includes both pre-cat discs). Although I may gut them in the near future!

Being a pessimist and resigned to my engine failing in the future, I was concerned that any slim chance I may have of claiming from Toyota (or through my new extended warranty) for a new engine (or parts) would be greatly diminished if it was proved that I ignored the recommendation of a Toyota Main Dealer.

If the engine does go, I'd try to get medieval on Toyota's arse and would want a clean service history.

Also, I did not feel confident enough to assume that the old manifold would have been fully cleaned of pre-cat debris.

Andy

Anonymous · January 20, 2005, 14:44

Well if they didn't replace any of the engine, and the pre-cat had disintegrated I guess that there's a reasonable chance you'll see oil consumption go through the roof and require them to replace bits of your engine, in which case signing the waiver probably would have been bad.

Anonymous · January 20, 2005, 14:51

Not signing was sensible imo.

With brand new kit as well, it'll be an easy job to decat yourself, bolts not having rusted. Then if they raise issue, say they must have both disintegrated as you've been driving around.

Anonymous · January 20, 2005, 14:56

Quote from: "markiii"with a H&S it does

check... got one of them. s:)

s:)

heathstimpson · January 20, 2005, 19:22

Quote from: "phil4"
Quote from: "markiii"It won't overfuel per see, as the o2 sensors are before the cat matrix anyway.

What will happen is any unburnt fuel won't no be absorbed by the cat, so you will get some slight popping especially on overun, sounds good though, and does no harm.

I wanna gut my cats now, that sounds awesome.

So do I s8)

s8) When are we arranging a decat session around Mark' newly installed pit as my Unichip is now on its way, and they need to be out before the rolling road tune s:? :? s:? And I want the popping noise for the spring s8)

s8)
<EDIT Sorry seen the next post with the arrangements s:oops: :oops: s:oops: >

Liz · January 20, 2005, 22:42

If you need further proof about the noise see this Heath:

Quote from: "mph"Something that hasn't been stated loudly and obviously enough for my liking is how amazing Liz's '2 sounds now. The combination of the A'PEXi intake, decatted manifold and H&S exhaust should be considered a must have for those who long for that real sports car sound.

s:D

heathstimpson · January 20, 2005, 23:49

Quote from: "Liz"If you need further proof about the noise see this Heath:

Quote from: "mph"Something that hasn't been stated loudly and obviously enough for my liking is how amazing Liz's '2 sounds now. The combination of the A'PEXi intake, decatted manifold and H&S exhaust should be considered a must have for those who long for that real sports car sound.

s:D s:D

I have seen a few comments previously; I have the H&S twin, H&S intake and TRD panel filter so it may not be quite as loud as yours with the Apexi s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Anonymous · January 26, 2005, 09:25

Hi,

Sorry I'm interrupting the thread, guys, but I did promise an update!

Like a phoenix from the flames, the mighty 'W758 SDM' is back from the dead with a brand new Manifold and Cat. It sounds lovely (not as revvy as before but more tuneful and smooth – girlfriends description, not mine). It also seems to have more poke at high speeds.

I have religiously checked the oil on a daily basis since picking up the car last Friday and have done 500+ miles since then without any noticeable oil loss. Although I know oil consumption can fluctuate and I will keep an eye on it.

One problem though, the 'engine malfunction light' came on within 15 mins of leaving last Friday. I took the car back to the main dealer on Saturday morning. The garage said one of the O2 Sensor was faulty due to the heat of the blocked Cat. The service manager said the faulty sensor would not adversely affect the car and suggested to delay replacing for a while so it could be done under my new warranty, which I was still organising at the time.

Like I said, I have done 500+ miles with the malfunction light engaged and the car seems fine. Does anybody know if I'm doing any damage to the car in driving it with a dodgy sensor, or should I relax and believe the Service Manager?

Hope you can help!

Cheers,

Tem · January 26, 2005, 09:52

Quote from: "jon36038"Like I said, I have done 500+ miles with the malfunction light engaged and the car seems fine. Does anybody know if I'm doing any damage to the car in driving it with a dodgy sensor, or should I relax and believe the Service Manager?

You'll probably just consume a bit more fuel, cause the sensor can't finetune the mixture...I wouldn't worry about it.