HELP! 1st spin in the wet & wheels need re-aligning

Anonymous · July 28, 2003, 22:12

Well it finally happened tonight is rainy Scotland........ my 1st spin.

I was going round a motorway roundabout (a circular road / junction for you folks accross the pond) turning right. At my juction, I turned off to the left onto the motorway slip road (on ramp). As I was turning left....... I applied just a bit too much power as the wet slip road started to go downhill.

In a flash (it didn't happen in slow motion) the back end was out!..... the front passenger wheel hit the kerb and turned the car throyugh 180 degrees.

I was then traveling down the grass verge backwards with drivers side wheels on the wet grass and the passenger wheels on the tarmac. I managed to keep it straight and apply the brakes (lightly). As the car wasn't slowing down that quickly, I tried to steer the car and get all 4 wheels onto the tarmac again (while still going backwards), but then the drivers side wheel came off the kerb the car spun through 180 degrees again. The car ended up pointing in the right direction again.

After composing myself, I inspected the car and to my relief everthing was still intacted, including my new mudflaps. I even walked up the road to look for bits, but still nothing.

Here's the BUT !!!

Then I drove off, the car tracked striaght when I toke my hands off the wheel, but the steering wheel now sits at the 11 O'clock position. Have I shifted the wheel alignment / tow etc ?

If so, does any one have a copy of the MR2 (2003 model) settings, so that I car take them along to my local dealer. I don't want them to make an balls up.

cheers,
Puggman

Anonymous · July 28, 2003, 22:46

Just as a matter of interest, how many other owners have spun their '2 in the wet?

Anonymous · July 28, 2003, 23:02

Quote from: "Lee"Just as a matter of interest, how many other owners have spun their '2 in the wet?

I span in the wet trying to miss a fox, back end went and i pulled it back in then the frickin' fox ran back again and the car span the other way round. This time it hit a curb before I could do anything and I mounted a round about. Got away with min damage.

Anonymous · July 29, 2003, 02:48

Quote from: "Lee"Just as a matter of interest, how many other owners have spun their '2 in the wet?

Once on ice I nearly lost it, but recovered. Otherwise, only on a course where you prictice car control.

A few days ago there was a guy behind me in an Opel Dumpster, sorry Speedster, who decided to try and be clever and pass me. As he accelerated he lost his back end, but recovered and swung again in the opposite direction before recovering again. He was very luck not to loose it. For some reason, he didnt try to overtake me again...Wonder why? s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

Anonymous · July 29, 2003, 08:18

Sorry to hear about your spin, but it sounds like you got off lightly.

My steering wheel was pointing at 9oclock to go straight so looks like your lucky - just pop down to Mr T and they will sort it out for you... might be worth them checking over the car just in case you did some damage you cant see.

good luck.

Anonymous · July 29, 2003, 09:44

Quote from: "Lee"Just as a matter of interest, how many other owners have spun their '2 in the wet?

I haven't spun my '2 (unintentionally anyway!). In the wet or snow you need to give it lots of respect, just like you would with any car.

In the dry (and in the wet if you know what you're doing) it's easy to hang the tail out and control it. A lot of people here recommend drivers tuition which sounds like a good plan to me. I've not had any tuition but I never have any problems because I know what to do when the tail steps out.

Unfortunately most drivers don't know what to do (as they were never taught) and the instinctive reaction can sometimes be the wrong one! Just remember to be smooth on everything, never jump straight off the gas or hard on the brakes and use smooth and controlled steering inputs.

It's wise to explore the limits of the car slowly, i.e. don't go out gunning it to the limit the first time you drive it, especially if it is your first RWD car!

--H--

darrenjuggins · July 29, 2003, 09:47

Sorry ot hear about your spin, easily done. I managed a good 360 at least in mine, but unfortunately stuffed it into someone front garden, that was all in about 60 yards.

To all at JAE, the guys who put here back together did an excellent job, no one seemed to notice it had any work done on it.

anyway back to my point, wet or icey weather is a bit of a dodgy area for the two, ice especially, thats why I came a cropper, on a housing estate 11pm and minus 3 !!!

I not have a outside temp gague fitted as I don't intend having another claim due to a over eager back end.

Most Totyota delalers wil do a lazer alignment, I paid £45 when I first had my new set of tyres fitted, got a read out before and after, very acurate and comprehensive.

good luck, tell us how you get on.

Cheers

Darren s:D

s:D

Anonymous · July 29, 2003, 09:48

Quote from: "Hardcore"In the dry (and in the wet if you know what you're doing) it's easy to hang the tail out and control it.

I've only ever managed to get the back out through backing off the gas... which seems wrong to me. In the dry, doesn't seem to matter how hard I boot it, it just goes. Seems I need driver tuition to show me how to get gooning, rather than how to keep it going straight.

Any ideas?

Anonymous · July 29, 2003, 10:05

Quote from: "phil4"
Quote from: "Hardcore"In the dry (and in the wet if you know what you're doing) it's easy to hang the tail out and control it.

I've only ever managed to get the back out through backing off the gas... which seems wrong to me. In the dry, doesn't seem to matter how hard I boot it, it just goes. Seems I need driver tuition to show me how to get gooning, rather than how to keep it going straight.

Any ideas?

Not that I'm encouraging this sort of thing, you have to be very careful.

However...

LOO is fair enough, doing it that way you can control the tail with the loud pedal quite nicely. I'm surprised you have never had the tail out under power! If there is an apporpriate, safe piece of road you know of you should try it again.

For me there is one particular roundabout, a big motorway style two laner, where the motorway on and off is not open so the only exits go straight over the roundabaout and it's very quiet country roads either side with excellent visability and plenty of room for error. Anyway it's perfect for power oversteer at low speed. As you come off the roundabout it's a sharpe left. The tail will come out with moderate balancing on the acellerator and you can take it round on opposite lock for about 30 yards
or so I'd guess.

Great fun!

--H--

Peter Laborne · July 29, 2003, 11:51

Quote from: "Lee"Just as a matter of interest, how many other owners have spun their '2 in the wet?

Never in the wet (I take it careful), but I did loose it in the damp. Coming out of a village I used to live in, there is a single lane, one way (ie long, raised traffic island), stretch with high curbs on each side and a slight, tight bend in. I had gone through it many, many times before, but this time put on the power just a fraction too soon and the car went out only a tiny bit too far. Unfortunately they had only just redone the road markings and I clipped a nice damp solid white line near the curb. The back end started to come round and was starting to head towards the curb. I knew what I had to do, but inexperience led me to messing up big time. I over-corrected and the back end started heading towards the other curb.....so I over-corrected again and started heading back towards the near-side curb. I knew the single lane was coming to an end and I would have a wider road to play with, so I decided to use the spin of the car in order to avoid the back end hiting the curb.......and floored it. This brought the back end round quicker (and away from the curb) and took me into the other lane. A second or two to catch my breath and I was on my way again.

I've spun through 90deg in the dry to avoid an accident. An old lady pulled out from a junction right in front of me and I knew there was no way I could stop in a straight line in time or whack on the abs and steer round her. So a bit of steering, dip the clutch and ripping the handbrake up stopped the front more-or-less where it was and slowly brought the back end round. We finished off pointing in the same direction, wing mirror to wing mirror no more than a foot apart.

The only other time I have spun is on a skid pan*. Find a decednt one and you will learn sooo much about car control.

Also a bit of racing has helped. There is a big difference a spin, a slide and a skid. You also need to know how to control each one and anticipate which one you are going into. The first one I mentioned above was just a slide, but I treated it like a spin, which is why I lost it.

* I have had other spins and slides etc, but I do not believe the forum should be used to openly talk about (by law) "dangerous driving". I know it was safe, but I know what I was doing and how to control it. The last thing this forum should be used for is giving tips on how to loose the back end under control to inexperienced drivers. I will talk about my mistakes, as you can learn from mistakes.

Anonymous · July 29, 2003, 12:41

Twice.

Turned right out of junction in first gear and hit the revs too high on a damp surface causing the rear to step out with lots of swearing. Touch of opposite lock and reduction in throttle put it back in line but was very scary and caused the traffic to slow around me. Nothing but a red face to show thankfully.

Other time was on a gentle curved entrance at work with some ice causing some mild fishtailing.

Each time I benefited from the very low speeds I was doing and have escape without hitting anything. I know to treat the car with Yokos with a lot respect (i.e. drive slowly in any form of turn) in the wet/damp but in the dry they have never let me down.

Anonymous · July 29, 2003, 13:16

Never done it in the Roadster, but have in the Mk1. Similar handling characteristics suprisingly, although you can imagine what 10 year difference is like.....

Traffic island, small bump in the road and no more than 25mphin the rain. Came around the island, hit the bump and the slightly stiffer dampers I had recently fitted to the car made the car bounce and then the car was off. Did a complete 360 and ended up rding the curb the other side of the road and hitting the Armco. Made a hefty dent in the barrier and took the front end off the car. Was a complete write off. At 25mph. Good job it was late at night and there was nothing coming the other way cos it could have been carnage! Pissed me off big time......

NEVER trust a mid engined car in the wet.......

Comer · July 29, 2003, 13:17

I've got Yokos and never in the dry have I got the back to go. Felt it twitch a few times on roundabouts but I've gently come off the throttle without no problems.

In the wet I got a nice bit of oversteer on a tight right hand bend and the front on the car wanted to carry on going straight!! Again I gently braked and managed to steer the car into the bend a bit wide.

I love the car's handling in the dry but I'm a proper Driving Miss Daisy in the wet!

Anonymous · July 29, 2003, 13:19

Quote from: "Peter Laborne"There is a big difference a spin, a slide and a skid. You also need to know how to control each one and anticipate which one you are going into.

Very well put, and good advice.

--H--

Anonymous · July 29, 2003, 13:55

I had a proper look at the car this morning and also noticed the rear drivers side wheel slightly marked at the rim.

It appears to be only cosmetic, so I will just get a quote for a replacement alloy and change it later in the year.

Unless anyone is selling a 16" rear alloy ?

I also think that the drivers side front wheel is pointing outwards slightly (tow out), accounting for the 11:30 O'clock(ish) position on the steering wheel.

I am aware of the handling issues with a rear wheel drive car and how to control it, but in the heat of the moment and the wet conditions I did lose it. I will admit to pushing it too close to the edge this time and will take it easier in the wet in future. I aggree that dry conditions is another matter, but still deserve respect.

Puggman

Anonymous · July 29, 2003, 14:03

New rear wheel from toyota is £428 - get it repared if its only minor... a hell of a lot cheaper!!!! (and it will look just as good!)

Anonymous · July 30, 2003, 09:43

How much !!!

I estimated a new wheel would cost £250 max, but I didn't account for Toyota rip off costs. I think that I will just get it repaired and re-sprayed.

Car is now booked in for a wheel check next Thursday. Although, I just thought about checking the tyre pressures. One tyre does look soft.

I will insist on a computer print-out before and after, but just to make sure..... is it a '4 poster rig' they use to set up each corner of the car ? I want to make sure I insist on the correct machine for the job.

Puggman

Anonymous · July 30, 2003, 10:05

Yeah, lot of money aint it - i HAD to have one cos my rear wheel was buckled and they could not get it out.

My local dealer actually sent my car to a specialist in a local town to align the wheels on my car after my accident. Not sure what setup it was, but it must have been a full 4 wheel tracking & camber alignment for my accident.

juansolo · July 30, 2003, 17:51

Take it on a trackday and learn to control it in a safe environment. Drifting your car around on public roads at anything other than very small angles is asking to at the very least bend an alloy. It can be quite alarming just how much space you need to gather up a slide.

As it is the balance of the Mr2 is very very good and it's very easy to catch with practise. If you want to catch a big slide though you'll likely need to apply opposite lock VERY quickly (lifting off the power at this point, even gently, is generally a bad idea), everyone has their own way of doing this, I subscribe to the let go of the wheel and catch it method. The wheels will naturally point in the direction of travel. Let go, catch, then steer and give it gas as required. Unfortunately the little engine doesn't have enough grunt to give a long silly slide on exit like you can do in a Caterfield but you can still have a lot of fun and do some quite daft things with it.

But yes, someone mentioned that to provoke a slide you have to lift and I would say that's pretty much right. It simply doesn't have the grunt to invoke powerslides solely with the throttle except at very low speeds. I find trail braking into corners or a quick flick and lift is usually enough to get the backend moving nicely.

FWIW, if you want to practise this sort of thing get yourselves to Anglesey. It really is the best circuit I can think of for gooning small cars. Pretty much every corner on the circuit is goonable in a Mr2 depending on how confident you are.

If anybody wants a ride just collar me when I'm there as I tend to go there quite a bit with BaT.

Anonymous · July 30, 2003, 23:17

I'm now think that the wheel is easily repairable and I have e-mailed a photo of the damaged to repair specialist.

Hope to get a response tomorrow.

Puggman

Anonymous · August 5, 2003, 23:47

I often find the back end squirming when I reach the upper ends of the rev range in second (about 50-60 mph?)in the dry. But then, i do need a new set of rear tyres.

In the dry, it'll keep you safe. In the wet or snow, you have to drive it slower than you would a front-wheel-drive super-mini. Who wants to thrash a car in the wet anyway? It's just asking for trouble.

Anonymous · August 7, 2003, 23:02

Well....... here's the final conclusion to my spin (read dent in my wallet).

The car we into Toyota Edinburgh today and I picked it up at 6pm.

They carried-out a full 4 wheel laser geometry check and everything is ok again. They also checked for damage or bent parts, but again no damage. I did noticed that they had all 4 tyres off the car to carry-out the check.

It looks like i have been very lucky and the only other damage is the mark on the rear alloy.

Here's the good news.......... I am really suprised that the handling is now improved, even compared to before the spin. The steering was slightly dull and heavy after the accident, but now it's ultra light again and I car feel the wheel moving on cambers in the road or even if I drive over a spyder....... i can now tell you how many legs it had :-) :-) :-) . Balance also seems alot more neutral than before with sharper turn in.

So, how much is the dent in my wallet ??
£70 including VAT for the geometry check
£30 estimated to touch up the wheel.

You live and learn.

cheers,
Puggman

Anonymous · August 8, 2003, 08:45

Possibly cos the geometry wasn't set to its optimum before the accident. Now it has been laser aligned, all is as it should be.

Glad you are all sorted. Enjoy it!!!!

Anonymous · August 8, 2003, 13:28

I feel a bit stupid asking this but.. When we talk about 'full 4 wheel laser geometry check' are we talking about just checking the tracking or something more?

Anonymous · August 8, 2003, 13:55

IIRC 'tracking' refers only to the toe angle, a full alignment will also check camber, axel alignment, caster etc!...

--H--