Car drives like a pig!

[The Other Stu]

OK, history in case you've missed my rants lately.

Subframe was absolutely rotten. Whilst I had the cat out, I replaced that and the manifold too.
Obviously, car drove like a pig until I got the tracking sorted a couple of days later - probably a total of 20 miles driven like this - it's not a daily driver.

Also, failed MOT on brakes (ho-hum). Since had handbrake cable, calipers, disks and pads replaced.

Pretty much around this time, I've had a problem.

When I brake from heavy speeds, the car pulls out a little on me and I have to correct the steering. It's quite scary some times, although it's not that big a "skip".
I thought perhaps the brakes were nipping, but it's got brand new calipers and still doing the same thing.

When I then accelerate, I feel the whole car shudder back.

Now, in addition, when I go around a corner and accelerate hard out of it, the same thing happens. I get a tug where I have to correct the steering, then again as I hit the straight.

Up until the subframe replacement, the car has always driven on rails as it should. I'd like to say perhaps this is caused by "spirited" driving, but I daren't work the car hard at all as it keeps catching me out, so it's not that.
I've checked all the bolts - they're all sturdy and don't look to have moved since the tracking was sorted. The engine mount that I had to remove is definitely sturdy too and the bolt is on securely. It was in good shape when I took it off - the rubber hadn't perished at all.

So...... thoughts are........

Engine mounts- they look OK, hard to get to of course, but I clearly don't have a clue on how to simulate hard(ish) braking at 60mph or pulling out of a tight bend.
Shocks. The car passed its MOT last week and the guy said that the car looked in excellent shape. It doesn't have nappies, so I'm not hiding anything.

[Call the midlife!]

Obviously I'm very much a novice but I seem to remember someone having issues with the shocker not rotating in the top mount, don't know wether that would cause a gripping feel if it's not letting the geo move as it should? And the shudder as it straightens out again? Probably just a stupid thought.


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[Carolyn]

does sound like a problem has developed up front.

[SteveJ]

Sounds more like a failed bush on the rear suspension to me. Nothing on the front would cause a shift in direction under acceleration without being seriously vague all of the time.

Suspicion would fall on the toe links to start with.

[jvanzyl]

I vote for bushes as well... your car is old, the bushes are original, I'd seriously suggest putting some polys in..

[MR TWO]

If it was driving perfectly well prior to your repairs/ improvements, its very likely that something has been put back incorrectly, or damaged during the process.

Upgrading to the bushes etc is all well and (probably) good. Personally I would change as little as possible until I found the current problem.

[The Other Stu]

Obviously I'm very much a novice but I seem to remember someone having issues with the shocker not rotating in the top mount, don't know wether that would cause a gripping feel if it's not letting the geo move as it should? And the shudder as it straightens out again? Probably just a stupid thought.

I'm a bit confused with this one. Do you have a picture I could look at? It does feel like something moves back into position after I pull away.

does sound like a problem has developed up front.

Problem is definitely behind me. I don't know how to explain, but it feels loose at the back, like when you drive in the wet and the rear wants to pull out on you.

If it was driving perfectly well prior to your repairs/ improvements, its very likely that something has been put back incorrectly, or damaged during the process.

Upgrading to the bushes etc is all well and (probably) good. Personally I would change as little as possible until I found the current problem.

I tend to agree. I'm not entirely sure what to check. Replacing the subframe is fairly straightforward.
I didn't have any bolts left over or anything. In fact the only thing that is different is that I didn't bother putting the nappies back on.

I might jack it up and see if I can spot any missing bolts.

I do wonder though, by simply removing the thing, I've jigged something else which has caused the bushes to fail.

[carolineasb]

Possible stupid question, did you get an alignment done after subframe changed?

[The Other Stu]

Possible stupid question, did you get an alignment done after subframe changed?

Absolutely - as above, within 20 odd miles.

Not a stupid question at all, but it drove odd rather than like this.

[carolineasb]

Sorry reading too fast and missed that!

[carolineasb]

PS get it checked again? In case something has moved?

[The Other Stu]

PS get it checked again? In case something has moved?

I did think about that. If I'm going to pay good money for that kind of thing, I might consider driving up to Loughborough and letting D1 Steve have a butchers.

Thing is, if it was alignment, I'd expect it to drive "odd", if you will. When the subframe was replaced, it felt like it was leaning (and it was - the camber was absolutely terrible).

Because of the brakes, I've had the thing up on stands an awful lot over the last few weeks. The camber looks fine and the wheels are no longer pointing inwards   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  
It's more of a shudder, but not a shudder (it doesn't make noise, it just feels like it's shifting behind me).

The more I think about it, the more I think about the one engine mount I did move which was the one that connects to the subframe.
Would the "fill it up with tigerseal" trick do it? It did look in good nick, but I guess it's' under immense force all the time. Also, I wonder about Carolyn's brace!

[mikek]

Stu. I'm having a similar problem. Car is not as planted as it was. Great at fast corners but almost skittish at slow speeds and under braking. I had a fast road set up and I'm wondering if it's that??? Other than that I keep thinking I've done something wrong? But as you say it's a pretty simple  job. I'm booked into my local garage for them to check everything is done up right and re check the alignment.

[The Other Stu]

mike, obvious question, and mine is much improved, did you check the tyre pressures?
I'm struggling right now to find a garage round here that I can trust too, hence why I'd like someone who knows our car. I'd rather not have heart surgery done by a foot specialist if you get my point. They all seem to be Vauxhall, BMW, Volkswagen specialists (or simply tyre places that happen to do MOTs and the odd brake/exhaust).

My clutch is starting to slip and that's not a job that a) I think I'm capable of and b) I'd like an untrained monkey with a spanner to have a go at.

[mikek]

Yep, I've checked everything. Twice! Our village garage is a volvo specialist but they look after all our cars and I trust them. One of the mechanics builds and races 3 series bmw so is happy with modified cars. They changed kates clutch last year charged me £350 but also told me they don't want to do another one!

[The Other Stu]

Yep, I've checked everything. Twice! Our village garage is a volvo specialist but they look after all our cars and I trust them. One of the mechanics builds and races 3 series bmw so is happy with modified cars. They changed kates clutch last year charged me £350 but also told me they don't want to do another one!

Maybe I should take it to Mr Clutch and have it done under the "fixed price" policy   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[Topdownman]

If you had the alignment done recently I would go back and tell them the problem and ask them to check/re-do. Even if they find it fine they may look at your bushes etc as if they can find another fault then its not their work thats at fault so you could get some free diagnosis time on their ramp?

It is always possible that something has moved so its normal to have it checked after a week or two anyway.

You may be able to cross some things off your list afterwards even if you dont find the answer?

[Topdownman]

Yep, I've checked everything. Twice! Our village garage is a volvo specialist but they look after all our cars and I trust them. One of the mechanics builds and races 3 series bmw so is happy with modified cars. They changed kates clutch last year charged me £350 but also told me they don't want to do another one!

Maybe I should take it to Mr Clutch and have it done under the "fixed price" policy   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Pretty sure that Steve at D1 will do a fixed price fit for you.

I know who I would rather use!

[Ardent]

Other stu

it's always good to pay steve a visit. If theres something not right under there he will find it.
however, do bear in mind he does not do alignments.
You are closer than I am, so no excuses. For a top notch geo. Wheels in motion.
but see steve first so not wasting money at WIM.

[jonbill]

Is everything torqued up right Stu? Some of those bolts need to be quite tight, and even very small movements can feel dramatic.

[The Other Stu]

Good point jon, They should have been tightened by the alignment fellas.
I have the requisite tool. Do you know where I can find out the torque details?

Jason; interesting, I thought he could do regular alignment. I genuinely don't think it is an alignment problem, but I'm happy to be proved wrong.
I'd happily pay for an hour of his time, even if it was just to tell me what was wrong!

Simon; I might just do that. It was a few weeks ago, but I still have the receipt somewhere. They did say to come back if I wasn't happy.

Probably just need to get it up on a ramp and it'll seem obvious!

[jonbill]

Toyota-tech.eu has it all if you can't find it elsewhere on line.
I'd start with quick and dirty  - I reckon  all bolt heads 17mm and bigger should be as tight as you can make them with a normal spanner or socket ratchet

[The Other Stu]

Carolyn will tell you, she didn't trust me with the calipers because I am like a bull in a china shop with bolts - I often tighten them so much, I end up threading them.
I've been really careful, particularly with the copper bolts with the holes in!

But I'll try that tomorrow  s;) s;)  Many thanks

[Ardent]

Thats the thing with Steve. Everything is torqued correctly.

[Carolyn]

I would get the pry bar out and check for movement in all the joints.  Do it with the suspension down and then again by jacking under the hub to put it where it would be with the weight of the car on it.

I did my forward links nice and tight on the ramp, ran the car round the block and both needed re-tightening.