Black soot / blobs out of exhaust on startup / cold start

[shnazzle]

The Toyota obd2 port has a pretty pathetic refresh time and limited bandwidth. I wish it didn't. So the metrics are always a bit lagged. Particularly things that change instantly like throttle.

I could send you a video of mine if that helps. It's "buttery". But if I open my emanage piggyback  live logging, it's instant, because it reads it straight from the tps.

Removing controller is very easy.
Remove the controller and plumb the wastegate straight into the turbo housing.
Basically just take the tube from the turbo housing to the controller off, remove the tube from the controller that goes to the wastegate. You're left with one tube coming off the wastegate; put that on the housing. It's in a very awkward place behind the output pipe. So remove that first.

The discharge pipe really shouldn't be going in front of the MAF. That'd be very odd, as you said, you'd have a lot of un metered air. The turbo would never suck air through there as the pressure is always going to be more than atmosphere when it vents.

[stevex]

Carolyn, is that some sort of hydraulic lift? Not seen something quite like that before  s:) s:)

Shnazzle, thanks for the info, I think I should be good, appreciate the offer of the video. I'd sure be interested in MAF readings though at idle?

Regarding the running rich, I bit the bullet today, after leaving the battery off over night I jumped in the car and had a co-pilot monitor the live data, between two motorway junctions as we needed to head somewhere for work. I made sure I packed tools, oil and provisions in case!

I verified all data had been reset in the ECU and it had, it was all showing zero. I then fired the car up, instantly the STFT went to -10 to -19, driving around on cold start slowly it appeared to be over fueling, however once up to temperature I sat the car at a steady cruise of 3000rpm @ 70 mph. STFT stayed around zero and LTFT were around -1 to -4. However, I hit traffic on the motorway, queue a knocking noise from the back of the car, it wasn't the engine instantly checked rise and fall of RPM with the clutch in and made no difference, but sounds like something clonking with tyre rotation on the driver side rear, pulled over and took a look, nothing obvious, will have to have a look under later.

Anyhow, after the traffic freed up I did the rest of the journey, 40 miles in total, mostly motorway. Did a few WOT accelerations, STFT went to zero (I believe it uses LTFT for WOT). That did show -19 ish at this point.

Once I had parked the car up, I recycled the ignition and checked the data. Overall it showed LTFT1 as 0 and LTFT 2 as -5.5.

Not really sure what this is telling me at the moment, other than perhaps at Idle or WOT it's too rich?

[stevex]

Here's a thought, so on cold start is the MR2 on open loop? So just relying on the MAF signal to fuel? That's when I get black junk firing out of the exhaust, also smells rich at idle any time.

Shouldn't then the cold start not effect the LTFT? #confused

Have to admit never going into fueling this much with the sensors. Have checked if O2's and MAF's are in spec before, but I had the manufacturer's figures to go on in GPS for the MAF, can't find that anywhere for the Mr2 / 1zz. Also not familiar at all with how the ECU and piggyback behave together. What I can say is the O2 sensors seem to be doing their job and giving very similar readings to what they should so they appear fine.

[shnazzle]

Does indeed use LTFT at WOT and idle (unfortunately).
One test to do is to idle and watch the stft. Then increase rpm to about 3k and hold. What does stft do?

[stevex]

Righto, so came home, also found the clunk at low speed, just the intercooler pipe needed adjusting and tapping the undertray - sorted.

It looked positive ish on the way there, now I am back so 80 mile round trip, LTFT are back to -19 and -24.

Also at idle, STFT were close to zero and going either way give or take + / - 1, but, holding at 3k rpm, STFT was going nuts, it was at -15 or 20 more!!! With burbles coming our of the exhaust. MAF was reading 11ish GP/S at 3k - no load.

Pretty sure it would have tripped the codes so checked, and sure enough, pending codes for both banks being too rich now.

A little stumped on where to go from here. I guess I could try a new MAF, then pull the injectors. Could it be a dodgy map? I noticed that I found in the add before the previous owner that it said re-mapped. I mean that is just hearsay, he could have just meant it had the aftermarket piggyback...

[shnazzle]

Have you looked behind the passenger bin to see if there is an aftermarket piggyback? Or just the intended tte piggyback.

MAF readings seem OK.
This is mine today stood still in traffic.


Injectors or lack of compression are options.

[stevex]

Thanks for the info, normal piggy back it would seem, and can't find any tampering with it.

It doesn't have low compression, I've tested a couple of times, in fact compression was a bit on the high side, probably due to the oil around the top of the pistons. Once blowing that out, they were all around 180-200.

MattPerformance said he had some known good MAF's, so I've bought one off of him to be double sure. Might check the coolant sensor too.

After that it will be removing and cleaning the injectors.

After that I am out of ideas...

[Carolyn]

That's too high.  Max fresh out of the factory is 185.  An older engine should be less than  180.  That indicates wet rings.  
Re-build time, I'm afraid.

[stevex]

Made some progress. So the old valve cover gasket was leaking, I pulled it because oil was pooling in the plug wells. After cleaning up and using I discovered the seal on each plug tube was leaking. The coil packs were wet on the outside with oil, and oil was working it's way down the threads of the plugs. That's sorted now with a new gasket, also some oil was leaking where no sealant had been placed near the timing chain end of the head - again sorted.

I've fitted a new oil return feed, that was indeed leaking slightly. I fitted a new MAF, this massively sorted the rich running issue, I also replaced the bank 2 O2 sensor, although this didn't make a difference but hey at least both pre cat sensors are new now.

After sorting I took it for a run and did some data logging. Bank 1 was perfect, LTFT -4, Bank 2 was still -14 (better than -25!). Suspecting a leaky injector I pulled the fuel rail, before I even removed it fuel started peeing out of injector no4, it had a damaged O-ring.

I replaced all O-rings and swapped 3 and 4 with 1 and 2. Then guess what? Both banks evened out but were still -10. Seems a couple of injectors are also duff.

So I am ordered four new injectors. Hopefully once they are replaced the rich running will be sorted  s:) s:)

Also oil consumption may be under control with fixing three leaks and the leaky plug seals.


Cheers.

*Edit, forgot to add, I blew low pressure through the injectors I switched, and both leaked while un-powered. Seems real issue for Rich running was an over-reading MAF and dodgy injectors.

Also ordered VK20's the correct plugs, Banzai fitted the wrong one's a couple of months back (17's which I subsequently also replaced before finding out they should be 20's for FI).

Once the car is running smooth, my hope is oil consumption is also under control and then I can look to what the future plans for the car are (body work tidy up, aero kit, and maybe look at building a new forged engine).

**another edit, forgot to mention seal on the filler cap was also worn and flat, allowing oil to leak out in that area, replaced and cleaned, it's been good now - all dry in that area.

[stevex]

[attachment=0:af4pk0ds] ia0 IMG_4022.JPG ia0 [/attachment:af4pk0ds][attachment=1:af4pk0ds] ia1 IMG_4025.JPG ia1 [/attachment:af4pk0ds][attachment=2:af4pk0ds] ia2 IMG_4027.JPG ia2 [/attachment:af4pk0ds]Few pics...

[stevex]

That's too high.  Max fresh out of the factory is 185.  An older engine should be less than  180.  That indicates wet rings.  
Re-build time, I'm afraid.

Yep thanks, did a retest after sorting some issues and I got 178, 175, 180, 182

Long term plan is probably a forged / better build, depends how I Feel.

[shnazzle]

Well done! Sounds like serious progress

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[stevex]

Well done! Sounds like serious progress

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

Sure, slow steps, well, at least I think so but it has only been a few weeks.

To be fair, this motor only has 52k, two owners and is in alright nic. I think I could spend 14k on a VX220 turbo, 12k on an old lotus elise, and it probably would't be as quick as this or would need work.

Also taking a 59k mazzer home yesterday made me think, really, for the money even if I spend 10k on this car in the long run it is a bargain...

My main objective is to make sure suspension, brakes, ECU and management plus all ancillaries are good before deciding on a long term plan for the motor.


Thanks,


Steve

[Bossworld]

Sounds like you're making progress  s:) s:)

Do you mind me asking what app you're using to get the data? Is it Torque or something else?

[beavisrules]

That top end looks real clean for a 1zz , I'd rekon it's had a rebuild already?. maybe they fudged a few last minute details.

[stevex]

Sure I use a handheld code reader, an Autel eu702, cost about £160 back in the day, but I am sure they are much cheaper or better ones now for the price.

It's still a nice reader though, does realtime data, even has programs you can load into it specifically for certain cars such as mercedes, and does ESP, ABS, transmission modules as well as ECU in such cars.

It does look clean too I thought Bevis, it does only have 52k though. There are some things that have been removed previously and not put back right.

[stevex]

Have you looked behind the passenger bin to see if there is an aftermarket piggyback? Or just the intended tte piggyback.

MAF readings seem OK.
This is mine today stood still in traffic.


Injectors or lack of compression are options.

I noticed your timing advance is 12, mine is 6 deg on tickover.

[stevex]

Found some interesting data.

According to the workshop manual 1zz-FE should idle between 1.4 - 2.0 gps, that's for an NA though. Without load at 2.5k should be 7.9 gps.

Engine Idle should be 750rpm

Idle timing ADV should be 10-18 degrees (although not uncommon to retard timing on boosted application to make safe when running lower octane fuel)

It also says acceptable ST / LTFT is 0 + / 1 20% (I don't buy that)

Throttle position fully closed 6-16%, fully open 64-98%

O2 B1 S1 states idle value 0.1 - 0.9

[shnazzle]

Have you looked behind the passenger bin to see if there is an aftermarket piggyback? Or just the intended tte piggyback.

MAF readings seem OK.
This is mine today stood still in traffic.


Injectors or lack of compression are options.

I noticed your timing advance is 12, mine is 6 deg on tickover.

Not sure why you're at 6, that seems quite retarded (tee-hee).

You can see that I have my airflow adjustment a bit off the mark for idle. It's adding fuel and the g/s is a bit high. I'll need to drop that 1%. No biggie at all.

I wouldn't be too pleased with +20 stft+ltft. but if you're talking tolerances,yes I suppose it's "ok" to compensate for crappy o2s or dirty maf sensors.



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[stevex]

Have you looked behind the passenger bin to see if there is an aftermarket piggyback? Or just the intended tte piggyback.

MAF readings seem OK.
This is mine today stood still in traffic.


Injectors or lack of compression are options.

I noticed your timing advance is 12, mine is 6 deg on tickover.

Not sure why you're at 6, that seems quite retarded (tee-hee).

You can see that I have my airflow adjustment a bit off the mark for idle. It's adding fuel and the g/s is a bit high. I'll need to drop that 1%. No biggie at all.

I wouldn't be too pleased with +20 stft+ltft. but if you're talking tolerances,yes I suppose it's "ok" to compensate for crappy o2s or dirty maf sensors.



Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

True, thanks for the info.

Well, the refurbed injectors turned up today, cost £80 which was a bargain I thought. Fitted them apart from, split two Orings!!! Got some compression ones the same size from a local diesel place and they are in.

Driving it around fueling looks almost perfect, + / - 3 ish. Still shows a bit high at idle mind, -11.0 but is going down, might need time to adjust as I didn't reset the tables this time.

Going to fit the proper SK20 plugs next.

Took it out of town today, 150 miles, no sign of noticeable oil usage yet, although the dipstick is a pain in the ass to read (half one side full on the other!). Plug tubes looking much nicer, no oil pooling.

New oil return feed dry as a bone.

[shnazzle]

Sounds so simple doesn't it... You assume injectors will always be ok. I need to do this with Helen's 440cc injectors as well.
80 quid isn't bad at all.

If it's at -11 and going down you're probably golden.
Well done. Bet it drives much nicer now

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[stevex]

Sounds so simple doesn't it... You assume injectors will always be ok. I need to do this with Helen's 440cc injectors as well.
80 quid isn't bad at all.

If it's at -11 and going down you're probably golden.
Well done. Bet it drives much nicer now

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

Thanks - hope so! My hope is with the correct plugs in as well things should improve again.

To be honest, it could have just been an odd one, but, there was a listing for the same denso injectors on flea bay tested and refurbed with new filters etc. One NEW injector is £200+ in ECP!

For the price I figured swap them all out. Apparently you have to be careful on ebay though, there are listings that look like the typical Chinese ones that claim to be in the UK with new injectors for £20 each, they are dodgy Chinese clones - worth doing research first.

One thing also to note, even with the ignition off and fuel cap open, a LOT of fuel came out of the rail. I cleaned up the front and had paper towels around it, but what I hadn't realised until fitting the others is that there were pools of fuel sat in the dimples on top the intake manifold that had leaked down the back - there was literally a cup of fuel sat in them... Glad I spotted it, although getting it out wasn't easy - lots of wrags and a long handled screw driver.

Here is another set I found  m http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOYOTA-CELICA ... SwCU1Y4QZr m

The chinese ones tend to be lighter in colour and not have the denso markings and part no on - have to be careful! These ones look ok and the same as what I bought.

The best way I found to fit them without removing the fuel rail is to sit them into the lower o-rings as central as possible, and apply some silicone spray on the new compression o-rings on the top, then line up and gently massage the fuel rail in a circular motion whilst pressing down firmly. It's not feasible to push the injector in the rail on the 1st cylinder with the fuel rail connected as there just isn't enough room and you end up breaking an O-ring - just my experience.

I might later send the old ones off to be tested, or buy a new kit for them and have a go at refurbishing - might be worth it for £30 for the kit.

[stevex]

Oh one thing I forgot to mention, spark advance is actually ok, it's 6 on cold start, when warm and moving I did some checks, it's going between the expected ranges. Must remember to check these things when moving and not in CL!

[stevex]

LTFT -9.2 now after another spin last night, 200 miles down since oil change, I appear to be 1/4 of a litre down on oil at a guess, the dipstick is hard to read sometimes still looks full sometimes, but, that was before the gasket change and a few other bits (oil return pipe, filler cap gasket, plug gaskets etc) and I haven't touched it since. The oil appeared to be after leaving all night and taking a fresh reading to be 1/5th down the dipstick. I read 1.3 litre from E to F so about 1/4 of a litre down i'd guess.

Oil is starting to dirty a bit now, so I am dropping it again this weekend, new bosch filter again, and fresh 5w40 helix ultra. Going to carry on and do a few short term oil intervals to help clean the bottom end out. Plus I had added 500ml of MMO to the oil in the last change, so about time to drop it out now. Also, something interesting, revving yesterday at idle when warm just saw a small puff of black soot come out the exhaust not oil / smoke lingering like I saw before the gasket change?

I'll probably do the same again, stick 3.4 litres-ish shell helix in with the new filter, and top it off with MMO, then drop it again after another 200 miles or when the oil starts to dirty. As you saw from the pictires under the valve cover, it is clean, so I can't imagine it could be too gunked up underneath?

Hesistation at 3k rpm also gone since MAF change, could have also been partially caused by a duff injector (thanks MattPerformance for the MAF and advice).

Also spoke to a local engine builder yesterday, he is familiar with 1zz and 2zz, said no problem dropping it and fitting parts supplied, just waiting for a quote. Things starting to look a bit more positive now, I'll carry on with maintenance and make sure everything is sorted and running well, found a full MAG rebuild kit with modded pistons for £300 inc shipping - keeping my options open. Also saw Monkey Wrench do forged pistons, although the chap I spoke to is familiar with turbo charging NA high compression engines, he is convinced stock internals are fine if IAT is kept down for up to a bar of boost, he said crank and rods start to feel the strain around 250hp / 250ft lb mark. Happy with the default values though TBH, so that's good to know.

Car is also still going into the bodyshop early August to get the rear quarter dents sorted, scratches on the front wing and a total front bumper respray (some scuffs and bad touch ups on it), £300 all in, so pretty decent.


Cheers.

[stevex]

Well, new Denso sk20r11's in!

Also dropped the oil again today, did a small piston soak and put a new filter in again. Going to do some short interval changes to clean the bottom end up in the interim.

Noticed one of the intercooler pipes had tape over it, so suspected damage, I disconnected the intercooler and pulled the pipe off and it had a tear in it. So I went to a local place and bought some new silicone pipe, had to get a meter of it for a small piece! Anyway, replaced that now too.

Running alright, LTFT's are all good under acceleration and cruise, within + / - 5. Idle is still around 9.6, not too botherd about idle as the logging shows everything else is nice now.

Getting there, should really be taking pictures of all this work...