[SOLVED] How can I get this bolt out?

[onion86]

So when I took my turbo off my old car it turns out one of the bolts broke off and I forgot until I fitted it to my new car...  I remember thinking "I'll sort that out later" doh   s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:  . I thought I'd try a bolt remover and then a helicoil if that didn't work. I've now tried 4 different brands of 2mm/3mm Cobalt drill bits and about 3 hours drilling, as you can see I've managed to do the square root of fa having got less than 2mm down into the bolt (Maybe 10% down the bolt). These seem to be made of some kind of indestructible metal (they're Allen bolts) it'll be weeks and hundreds more drill bits before I can even get a bolt remover in, let alone drill the whole thing out.

Does anyone have any advice? I can't really install it as it is even with loads of Fire Putty on the gasket as I expect it will blow out pretty quick. Anything else I can try? Just keep going? Take it to a specialist?

Cheers!

20170902_123533

[Carolyn]

Take it to a machine shop.  They can use a carbide drill on the mill (so it goes straight).  Get it as close as possible to the threads without touching them, then an extractor should get the last bit out.

[onion86]

Cheers Carolyn, always try to do things myself but best to take it to someone that can do it properly before I ruin it completely.

Just got to find one in Bristol now  s:) s:)
Will try giving this place a call on Monday: http://www.dsmachining.co.uk/index.html

[K T M Rider]

Got to agree on the machine shop, personally I'd try to find one with an EDM a.k.a Spark Erosion machine.

When I snapped off an exhaust stud on one of my motorcycle cylinder heads some years ago I got the broken stud spark eroded out and when I got the head back the thread was completely clean and undamaged. It's a super accurate process, I used to work for a company that used it to make machine tooling accurate to microns.

[Essex2Visuvesi]

Left handed drill bit is another option

[onion86]

Left handed drill bit is another option

That was the first option I looked at but seem to only be able to get them from the US and have to wait a while for delivery. Also not sure it's going to do any better as I can't even penetrate into the surface with a right hand bit. Using slowest speed with quite a bit of pressure still doesn't cut anything out and just getting little bits of dust like metal coming off.

[Carolyn]

The problem is:  When you've 'failed' on a super hard bolt, your drill bit makes the surface even harder.  The trick is more speed, loads of pressure and don't stop.  Once you've hardened the surface you need carbide to get through it.

[maybeturbo]

A spark eroders gotta be massive overkill on a broken bolt!! Any machine shop or tool makers with good drill bits will get that drilled and cleaned up in no time. A spark eroder can be really useful for stuff like bearings that won't come out though (have the outer race broken) cos they're really tough steel and as ktm says they're really accurate so can be done without damaging the surfaces.

[ChrisGB]

I can only add, go small, get a pilot hole in there first. A properly hard drill will be required. Use cutting oil, or something similar to keep the heat down.

[onion86]

The problem is:  When you've 'failed' on a super hard bolt, your drill bit makes the surface even harder.  The trick is more speed, loads of pressure and don't stop.  Once you've hardened the surface you need carbide to get through it.

Complete opposite of what I read online, all said to use less speed for less heat and more 'cutting action' so I did keep it slow. What was very odd is the drill bits never got hot at all, which makes me think maybe it's just my drill that's the issue rather than the bits (it that a thing... if it spins it should drill?). Hopefully that does mean I haven't hardened the surface too much, I did use some oil in their to keep it cool.

I've managed to find somewhere to take it later on in the week, although they need to see it before giving me a quote so I better take the turbo off the manifold and take it in (on the bus).  I did send them the photo and a photo of one of the bolts but they said "Price wise, who knows, just depends on how difficult it is." I've enquired at a couple of other places as that didn't fill me with the most confidence.

[ChrisGB]

If you have hardened a skin on the surface, just centre punch it through, then go slow with force on a 1.5 mm pilot hole. Unless someone has put some sort of exotic bolt material in there, it should be a DIY job.

[K T M Rider]

A spark eroders gotta be massive overkill on a broken bolt!!

Neither of these companies would agree with you..................

 m http://www.jaybeebikerbits.co.uk/index. ... rvice.html m

 m http://www.sparkeroding.co.uk/ m


Plus I very much doubt anyone using EDM is going to say "depends how difficult it is"    s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[maybeturbo]

A spark eroders gotta be massive overkill on a broken bolt!!

Neither of these companies would agree with you..................

 m http://www.jaybeebikerbits.co.uk/index. ... rvice.html m

 m http://www.sparkeroding.co.uk/ m


Plus I very much doubt anyone use EDM is going say "depends how difficult it is"    s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

My mate runs a tool makers and has only used a spark eroder for one thing I've ever brought to him, a bearing race. Apart from that just expensive drill bits and clocking the hole with a dti gauge to get the centre bang on.

The drills I've pinched off my mate when I've been in bother in the past are a different league to anything I've bought elsewhere, I don't know brands and such for that stuff but I reckon you must just have some cheap drill bits causing you grief.

What's the "depends how difficult it is" bit mean? I didn't understand that.

[K T M Rider]

I've managed to find somewhere to take it later on in the week, although they need to see it before giving me a quote so I better take the turbo off the manifold and take it in (on the bus).  I did send them the photo and a photo of one of the bolts but they said "Price wise, who knows, just depends on how difficult it is." I've enquired at a couple of other places as that didn't fill me with the most confidence.

[maybeturbo]

Ah, got it. Good luck, hopefully they'll get a drill through it easy enough and won't cost a lot.

[onion86]

Well you were right and I did manage to do it myself in the end, built it up from 2mm to 6mm then got the bolt extractor on it. "Well that doesn't look like it's coming out I'll just helicoil it, better sto..." *snap*

Now I have part of a shattered bolt extractor in the hole instead   s:flame: :flame: s:flame:  I don't know why I do these things to myself... Top is not flat so initially tried to twist it out with centre punch and hitting it gently clockwise which worked for 1/4 turn but then it got stuck.

Have to drill that now... probably more and harder metal than I started with when just the bolt was there.   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

Maybe just buy a new one?  s:) s:)  http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-HSG-180&Category_Code=

[ColinC]

I feel your pain as that could just as easily be me, and most likely would be, the difference seems to be that others have confidence, experience and good tools. Good effort for trying, and I suspect a machine shop will eat the bolt and now stud extractor up, as it cant be a hard job for them, well it doesn't look it, at least to the uninitiated casual observer. Good luck.

Colin

[onion86]

Finally!  s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:  If at first you don't succeed.. I did get a 'little' stressed after the bolt remover broke inside so went a bit drill happy and completely screwed the hole up as you can see from the 1st pic... but then I calmed down and...

Thread (relatively) intact with a little of the bolt left!:


Tap to clean out original thread:


Winner!  s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:


Ironically it seems I didn't even need the bolt remover and this would've happened with just a drill and a dremel that I used in the end, but you live and learn.

[delhusband]

Result!

[Carolyn]

Well played, Sir.