emissions

[davethediscoman]

Hi, no problem with the hijack, it's all along the same lines so all interesting

[davethediscoman]

This may help everyone also. https://youtu.be/E3KSTjVIRRU

[BahnStormer]

Hi, no problem with the hijack, it's all along the same lines so all interesting

Ta for your undertanding...

I'm guessing your multimeter pics are just a manual way of checking the O2 sensors?

Think you need a special socket to change them. Perhaps it's the same as a sparkplug.

This is what is needed (from the previously linked midshiprunabout link above)...


Bear with me while I take notes, as I'm assuming this is one (or more!) of the O2 sensors
DOX-0204 @ £58.14
DOX-0206 @ £58.14

Are there any alternatives to go for? e.g. NGK / BluePrint? I only ask as prices are similar for those other brands on Amazon (and I'll get my favoured Prime delivery, so possibly cheaper!)...

And on the SparkPlugs.co.uk site, as soon as you get one of those links you are suggested that you might want to buy an "O2 sensor socket" too... £11.02... but similar 22mm ockets can be found on Amazon for £7.50 and includes Prime delivery (HERE) or a lot less if you're willing to wait... if that link dies, just search on Amazon for "lambda sensor socket" or "oxygen sensor socket".

[BahnStormer]

From Carolyn's post that effectively said: "High HC = something more than the cat", I'm going with the OBD2 readings and expecting it will need new O2 sensor9s?) first, then a (free) re-test in the hopes that has sorted it.

Will it need long to adjust to the new sensors or can I pretty much drive it straight to the test centre once they're done?

IF it still needs a new cat and I'm not going for a sports cat (sounds like I'm not), then is the OEM one the best? Priority would be:
1) flow
2) low emissions
3) longevity
4) price

Price is on the list too, but a long way below the other three: I don't mind paying double if it will last twice as long. The car doesn't burn oil and should run pretty lean (once the O2 sensors are sorted), so I'm not expecting the cat to get prematurely "soiled".

Is there an OEM equivalent (or better)? I want quality, not Mr T's stamp of approval.

[1979scotte]

Most people just get the proper DENSO sensor.
NGK blue print ect don't always perform so well.

[davethediscoman]

I got my socket on eBay with delivery was £8. Took two days by rm but could of got it next day from the, tool academy. Com

[BahnStormer]

I got my socket on eBay with delivery was £8. Took two days by rm but could of got it next day from the, tool academy. Com

What is the clearance like?

Will a longer socket do the job? Draper @ £7.50 (Prime)
Or do you need the offset one? BGS @ £10.63 (non-Prime)

[BahnStormer]

Most people just get the proper DENSO sensor.
NGK blue print ect don't always perform so well.

Thanks - that's what I needed to know!

Ready to pull the trigger on these as soon as I can work out which sensors are playing up!
DOX-0204 @ £58.14
DOX-0206 @ £58.14

edit: I got this advice too late, but OpieOils are only £53.80 each AND they do free delivery if you're more than just the one (£60+).
e.g. https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-86057-denso-direct-fit-lambda-sensor-dox-0204-oxygen-o2-genuine-oe-part.aspx

Speaking of "needing to know"..... how do I know which sensor is which (i.e. after I've seen an error code, how do I know:
1) which physical sensor actually needs to be removed!!
2) if I need a DOX-0204/0206 (prefereably without having to remove it first).

edit: #RockingThisThreadHijack

[Carolyn]

Bank 1  sensor 1 is towards the pulley end of the engine in the manifold.

Bank 2  sensor 1  is the other sensor in the manifold.

Bank 1  sensor 2 is just after the main cat and has a longer wire.

[davethediscoman]

The draper socket is the one I have to be honest it didn't give me a problem at all getting sensor out. I was expecting it to be stuck fast. But was easier than some spark plugs I've done.

[Call the midlife!]

Hi, no problem with the hijack, it's all along the same lines so all interesting

Ta for your undertanding...

I'm guessing your multimeter pics are just a manual way of checking the O2 sensors?

Think you need a special socket to change them. Perhaps it's the same as a sparkplug.

This is what is needed (from the previously linked midshiprunabout link above)...


Bear with me while I take notes, as I'm assuming this is one (or more!) of the O2 sensors
DOX-0204 @ £58.14
DOX-0206 @ £58.14

Are there any alternatives to go for? e.g. NGK / BluePrint? I only ask as prices are similar for those other brands on Amazon (and I'll get my favoured Prime delivery, so possibly cheaper!)...

And on the SparkPlugs.co.uk site, as soon as you get one of those links you are suggested that you might want to buy an "O2 sensor socket" too... £11.02... but similar 22mm ockets can be found on Amazon for £7.50 and includes Prime delivery (HERE) or a lot less if you're willing to wait... if that link dies, just search on Amazon for "lambda sensor socket" or "oxygen sensor socket".

The £7.50 Amazon one will be fine, just make sure it's seated properly on the sensor, sometimes they can chew themselves on if the sensor is  f tight and they're a nightmare to get off!
Get it warm and plusgassed up prior to removal and you'll be fine.


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[Ardent]

With ref to carolyns post
The dox 0204 fits the top two.
The dox 0206 is after the cat with the longer lead.
As alluded to earlier. ECU operates on a two trip logic.
Detects fault. Stores does not report.
If detected again compares with stored and if same. Reports and you get a dash light.
So perverse as it is. You really could do with a fault being detected so you have a code to read.

[BahnStormer]

Concerning. I've never had any dash errors, so I'm hoping it's just marginal, but still on OBD2.

[Ardent]

Engine check light does come on when turn the ignition on? Then goes off a few seconds later?

[BahnStormer]

Engine check light does come on when turn the ignition on? Then goes off a few seconds later?

(facepalm)

I've just had a QUICK look (I know I'm not going anywhere, but I've had a few drinks, so not hanging about the car waiting for Mr Plod to come and check up on my me!!). Sounds like a silly question, but in the dark, it looks like it should be between ABS and battery? If so, I can see the shape, but no, never comes on at all!! You think the previous owner pulled the bulb and got the emissions results "fudged" last time around to mask something bad? If it was a bad O2 sensor, surely easier just to fix the sensor than to pull the dash apart and pull the bulb?!? Pretty p'd off as I actually got it serviced with Mr T after I had it a month, before starting to spend any money on it to spot the obvious stuff like that!

I'm not overly concerned - it's not burning oil and the oil looks clean, so I'm guessing (hoping) the engine is okay, but worst case, I'll be getting extra notes off Scottie, et al on a V6 swap (gone off the idea of rotrex'ing a 1zz when there's 1mz's, 3mz's and 2GR's out there, looking for a home)... I don't think the '2 needs that much extra power and I don't like the idea of a turbo/2zz (elastic/peaky delivery is not my thing)... but a V6 would just sound amazing.... if it was an easy fit and IF I could afford it, I'd love the 3.0TFSI (SC) engine from my snotwagon Audi in the back of the '2!! That said, the extra power was really pencilled in for Summer'19... 2018 was supposed to be about learning to drive the car more and the supporting mods (suspension and braces), all that AND a V6 is about £6k that I don't have right now...

[wotugonado]

Tbf it's a doddle to block the EML light, 5 mins work. And the cheaper option if your just selling the car......
Your not the 1st and won't be the last to be caught out by this, myself included. The sh1tbag who did mine put a screwdriver through the cluster and took  the EML and fuel led's right off the circuit board, usually they use blutack or card to just block it off, so my seller was a special kind of @rsehole. Hope it's an easy repair for the cluster and most likely just the 02 sensor to replace.

[ptennisnet]

I had MOT emissions problems where there was an exhaust leak at the joint where the cat section joins the manifold (from the three amigos) and I'd driven around with it blowing.  I can't remember if it was high HC or CO but I definitely had high lamda.  I fitted a cats2U stock cat and it sailed through.

[shnazzle]

Jack the black just failed emissions on idle
Stuck IACV.
Just add it to the list ways to fail emissions

[BahnStormer]

Okay mine had three error codes, looks like it is pointing at the 2x manifold O2 sensors... edit: it wasn't these errors point to 1x manidfold + 1x post-cat!!

"P0135-Powertrain: O2 Sensor Heater Circuit (Bank 1 Sensor 1)"
"P0142-Powertrain: O2 Sensor Heater Circuit (Bank 1 Sensor 2)"
"P0171-Powertrain: System too Lean (Bank 1)"

I cleared the error and started the engine and I got one of them back immediately... guessing only a matter of time before the other one comes through too?
"P0135-Powertrain: O2 Sensor Heater Circuit (Bank 1 Sensor 1)" edit2: this one comes back after the "conditions" have been met.... (read on for details)

No sign of the second error (yet), but I'm guessing it's only a matter of time?

I'm guessing that P0171 is just a summary/result of the first two reading badly.... and it incorrectly reading too lean would explain the net result of the ECU dumping far too much fuel in and it clocking 800+ on HC's?

Bank 1  sensor 1 is towards the pulley end of the engine in the manifold. [dox-0204]

Bank 2  sensor 1  is the other sensor in the manifold.[dox-0204]

Bank 1  sensor 2 is just after the main cat and has a longer wire.[dox-0206]

I'll go and buy two Denso DOX-0204's...

Is the massively high CO reading a result of this too or has it just coated the cat in fuel because it's running so rich, in which case the Cataclean may/may not help it clean that depending on how clogged up the cat is? Or will the cat never recover?

BTW - thanks for all the help on this guys: no ego's, no crazy ranting/patronising comments (even when some might have been earned!)... just simple straight forward advice, combined with support from other members, especially when this probably seems really simple for most of you!! As a result - I've felt a lot more inclined to have a go at this myself - it's been nice getting stuck into this and it has probably saved me a few hundred quid already!!

[BahnStormer]

Most people just get the proper DENSO sensor.
NGK blue print ect don't always perform so well.

I can get Walker/Thomson/HAAS sensors from a local garage (EuroCarParts)... Thomson is the most expensive, and HAS is only a fraction more than Denso.

I know the recommendation is Denso, but how likely are the Thomson/HAAS ones to be similar quality? Or am I just being impatient and I should order it online and wait for the Denso parts?

edit: also looks like GSF has something similar, but apparently Bosch (@£155!!!)... https://www.gsfcarparts.com/930to0090

[Carolyn]

As you can see from your own research, things can be massively overpriced. So price is no indication of quality.

My feeling is the Densos are so well proven in the club, that anything else is a gamble....

[BahnStormer]

Thanks - GSF gave me a 60% discount code (EGG60), which takes them down to £62 each (from £155!!) - always worth asking!!

Unfortunately I had a mix-up with calling in to check the stock (their phones were busy and I got diverted to a store 100miles away, which they didn't tell me and didn't check where my pickup was supposed to be from, so they confirmed stock ready for collection at the wrong store ). I'll still get the parts at that price, but they won't be ready for collection until Tuesday morning.

They said they only stock Bosch/Denso and that these were likely to be the Bosch ones: Bosch is a brand I usually trust to make high performance, robust components and Denso seem to be the favoured brand, so I was willing to go with either.

edit: cancelling the Bosch/Denso from GSF and I'll just order the Denso ones from sparkplugs.co.uk for delivery next week.

[Ardent]

Bahnstormer
BTW - thanks for all the help on this guys: no ego's, no crazy ranting/patronising comments (even when some might have been earned!)... just simple straight forward advice, combined with support from other members, especially when this probably seems really simple for most of you!! As a result - I've felt a lot more inclined to have a go at this myself - it's been nice getting stuck into this and it has probably saved me a few hundred quid already!!

That's the way we roll.
Great club spirit eh!

[wotugonado]

Jack the black just failed emissions on idle
Stuck IACV.
Just add it to the list ways to fail emissions

Unlucky!!! By coincidence I was reading up on iacv yesterday as I was wondering if that could affect the emissions, you've just given me the answer. What were your readings and how have you diagnosed the faulty iacv ? If mine struggles on the emissions this year this is next on my checklist

[Call the midlife!]

Sorry I have to be quick so haven't time to check your thread/prices etc but have you tried Opie oils for the sensors?
Around £53 last time I looked plus try the code DOZEN20 you might get their Easter discount AND mention you're in the club you might get club discount on top of that. I did on some MT90 the other week.
No harm in trying!


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