Intermittent Starting Problem

[je72]

Check this out:

https://youtu.be/u7XNnT060oI

That's the sound of my lovely 2 starting 1st time after I replaced the camshaft sensor with the one that @Carolyn sent me for free! She didn't even want me to cover the postage  :notworthy: . I also gave the MAF a clean while I was there (I'd removed the air box and hose to give myself better access to the sensor) I used some proper MAF cleaning spray to be on the safe side.

He's now started 4 times out of 4 without any problems, to be absolutely sure I need to make sure it starts over the next few days as the fault was intermittent, even if it was becoming more persistent.

Thanks to everyone who pitched in with this I'm currently riding the crest of a wave of satisfaction especially as I saved myself the cost of a garage repair!

[Carolyn]

Check this out:

https://youtu.be/u7XNnT060oI

That's the sound of my lovely 2 starting 1st time after I replaced the camshaft sensor with the one that @Carolyn sent me for free! She didn't even want me to cover the postage. I also gave the MAF a clean while I was there (I removed the air box and house to give myself better access to the sensor)

He's now started 4 times out of 4 without any problems, to be absolutely sure I need to make sure it starts over the next few days as the fault was intermittent, even if it was becoming more persistent.

Thanks to everyone who pitched in with this I'm currently riding the crest of a wave of satisfaction especially as I saved myself the cost of a garage repair!

Result!!  I'm delighted for you.

A small donation to the club might be in order?

[je72]

I think a donation to the club seems very fair 

[Carolyn]

Just realised the heart of your problem

He's a SHE and you hurt her feelings!

[je72]

Just realised the heart of your problem

He's a SHE and you hurt her feelings!

You might be right! Because she has gone back to not starting 

Yesterday after I replaced the camshaft sensor I had 100% starts out of 7 or 8 attempts. This morning I had a very difficult start had to crank it loads and after a few "almosts" she finally sprung into life. I tried to pull away and she died, then wouldn't start again. A few more crankings and she finally started, gave here few revs and seemed to be ticking over nicely. Drove a few miles, turned her off and she started again (maybe a little lazily) drove home and stated to do some googling.

I am now wondering if the camshaft sensor wiring loom may actually be the culprit, maybe it's grounded/shorted/broken or something? I'm wondering if when I crank her vibration sometimes helps and sometimes not (but remember I am very novice mechanically) which could explain the intermittent nature of the fault.

I could have upset something during the removal of the sensor, if I'm honest I found it very difficult (as did my neighbor when he helped) to get a spanner on the sensor bolt. I had to resort to removing the air filter box and air intake hose so that I could get anywhere near it. Just for reference I used this video guide for that https://youtu.be/8RJwRgIspFY

Incidentally when I refitted the hose to the throttle body there is a plastic "post" that the I think the screw from the clamp is supposed to fit into see video here

https://youtu.be/8RJwRgIspFY?t=1079

I couldn't get the screw into the hole so I tightened it anyway and I'm pretty sure it was tight enough, just mentioning in case it becomes relevant.

How easy would it be to change the wiring harness from the camshaft sensor? I've looked at this terrifying image from spyderchat https://www.spyderchat.com/forums/showthread.php?86681-2ZZ-Wiring-Need-Assistance-with-2000-Celica-GTS-ECU-Wiring it looks like th wires ar all cable tidied together and that it goes behing the engine, I'm wondering if that will be beyond me.

Back to the drawing board I guess.

[Carolyn]

Did you clean BOTH ground bundles on the side of the head? 

[Carolyn]

I've gone back through the thread.

I'm back to suspecting the battery.  Voltage not under load is not a great indicator.  5 years is old. 

Did you try jump starting it as I suggested?

I'm not giving up on this.

[je72]

Did you clean BOTH ground bundles on the side of the head?

I've gone back through the thread.

I'm back to suspecting the battery.  Voltage not under load is not a great indicator.  5 years is old. 

Did you try jump starting it as I suggested?

I'm not giving up on this.

Thanks @Carolyn for your pateince

I *may have* (definitely did) forgotten to clean those wires in my excitement to get the replacement sensor in, so I'll do that tomorrow.  :withstupid:

Troubleshooting is tricky as I'm parked in the street (albeit a quietish street) and every time I've had a no start so far, I've been on my own with no one to help jump her or even look at the spark plugs for me while I cranked it.

One thing though, could a low battery be causing the P0340 error (it came back today after I cleared it yesterday)? If it could then I'll just bite the bullet and fit one but when cranking it's very lively and does ot tail off even after a few 10 second crankings, it "sounds" to me like it's providing plenty of juice.  Also because this is intermittent I'm worried that I could stump up for a new battery on and it might work for a day or two then go back to not starting, I really hoping I can identify the fault with certainly before I spend more money as it's too tight to mention. Maybe I'm in dream land.

To add insult to injury I've just noticed that I managed to crack the passenger side rear light cluster whilst leaning in and toiling away  (:< >

[Carolyn]

It's a shame you're so far away.

I'm sure we could solve this pretty damn quick if it was in my workshop!

Did you do the check for wet plugs when it didn't start?

[wotugonado]

If you don't fancy shelling out on a new battery I can fully recommend this

https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=64642.msg757040#msg757040

Well worth having in the car, as it charges other stuff too. If it doesn't help solve your problem then at least you have a new gadget 

[dan944]

Buy a new battery. If it doesn't work. Return it as a "doesntfit" return policy should cover it.

[je72]

It's a shame you're so far away.

I'm sure we could solve this pretty damn quick if it was in my workshop!

Did you do the check for wet plugs when it didn't start?

I'm starting to think the drive over would be worth it! (for me anyways!) The only problem being that it if I drove over it would be because she started!!

So I had another tricky start this evening, I decided to inspect the plugs as you outlined, but having thought that my socket set which included two "universal" spark plug sockets would be suitible, I found out they weren't. Sadly that discovery was only after I'd removed the battery connection, engine cover, loosened the wiring rail, removed the bolts to the coil-packs and removed the coil-packfurthest to the left  :withstupid:

Ah well it was a good dry run, all I need now is go down halfords and get one tomorrow.

I put it all back together and she fired up at the 2nd time of asking, went for a spin and noticed that my front drivers dipped beam has gone, so I'll put a bulb on the list from Halfords too.

Hoping my luck starts to change soon.

Also sorry to ask this again, but do people think that a low battery could be triggering the P0340 code? it seems so random to me.

[je72]

the (£66) Yuasa YBX5053 I went for in March is 430CCA so about 40% up on your 5 year old Lucas, which would give you a lot more surplus power for a faster spinning engine / more powerful sparks / overcoming higher resistances due to marginal earths etc.

Sorry if I've been a horse you can't make drink! That vital part went over my head the 1st time I read it. I was (rightly or wrongly) convinced that my battery was ok, I'd even had it checked at Halfords. I couldn't fathom how a low battery could cause a specific sensor issue. However re-reading what you've ALL BEEN SAYING (sheesh) I think I'm going to try a new battery next.

If that fixes it, will I have to park by the bins at DD 2019? 

[dan944]

the (£66) Yuasa YBX5053 I went for in March is 430CCA so about 40% up on your 5 year old Lucas, which would give you a lot more surplus power for a faster spinning engine / more powerful sparks / overcoming higher resistances due to marginal earths etc.

Sorry if I've been a horse you can't make drink! That vital part went over my head the 1st time I read it. I was (rightly or wrongly) convinced that my battery was ok, I'd even had it checked at Halfords. I couldn't fathom how a low battery could cause a specific sensor issue. However re-reading what you've ALL BEEN SAYING (sheesh) I think I'm going to try a new battery next.

If that fixes it, will I have to park by the bins at DD 2019? 

It's a learning curve!!  At the end of the day we all just love seeing 2's being enjoyed. It's a little bit of a spurious fault but you're still getting to know the car I think this could even be a culmination of things. Maybe a bad earth causing a higher resistance, low output on the batt, combining to cause a dodgy start? Who knows. We'll figure it out though.

[je72]

Hello all, well I couldn't start her to get to Halfords for the battery. Luckily this particular time my helpful neighbor was around. We took the sparks out a minute or two after cranking her repeatedly and they look dry. We've tried cranking with one of the spark plugs out (all other coil packs removed) and he couldn't see a shark. He thought it was very odd that both those events were happening. He suspected immobiliser, but when I inserter key the red blinky light stops flashing. I'm going to try the spark test again but with the other 3 cool packs reattached, could that be making a difference?

Any other thoughts

[je72]

what I'm trying to say, should I still be replacing the battery even with the sparks being dry and no spark? My neighbour felt it was the immobiliser but when I put the key in the ignition the blinky light goes off.

The only thing I haven't tried yet is a jump start. I didn't want to ask my neighbour as he was trying to go off on a fishing weekend and I felt I'd delayed him too much already.

[shnazzle]

Immobiliser only cuts off fuel, so you'd definitely still see a spark. It's to prevent people flooding their engine with fuel in the event of an immobiliser issue.

Battery does seem likely but doesn't explain why you have dry plugs.

[Topdownman]

This technical stuff is way above my paygrade but if you havent already, I think it would be helpful to lightly sand both battery terminals and the inside of the terminals in case there is any corrosion causing a bad connection.
I would also take out every fuse and reinsert if ok in case the connections are corroded and making a bad contact.

[je72]

OK folks, it's not the battery (I think) see below.

Toddled of to Halfords in our local car club car (very useful) Payed £56.98 for a shiny new Yuasa HSB053 courtesy of the Halfords price match from this website:

https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/yuasa/ybx5053/

Fitted it in and disappointingly, crank but no start (maybe slightly more brisk cranking if that makes sense), tried again and she did very lazilly start, but then like some previous times she died again. Then wouldn't start again. I'm left thinking that as this is all very similar behaviour to my original battery, that maybe I can finally rule out the battery, do you all agree? Or is there something else I should try now I have a new battery?

Bear in mind I tried it multiple times this morning and I couldn't get her to even come close to start. Another neighbor wandered passed and he said if it's starting but then dying, it must be the fuel.

I've also managed to thread this stud/both that holds the plastic coil pack wiring cover in place on the far left:

https://imgur.com/a/9PR458n

[Ardent]

He
Where are you based?

[je72]

.

He
Where are you based?

Malvern Worcestershire.

[Ardent]

Any knowledgeable members close by able to assist?
Close being a relative term here.

[Carolyn]

OK folks, it's not the battery (I think) see below.

Toddled of to Halfords in our local car club car (very useful) Payed £56.98 for a shiny new Yuasa HSB053 courtesy of the Halfords price match from this website:

https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/yuasa/ybx5053/

Fitted it in and disappointingly, crank but no start (maybe slightly more brisk cranking if that makes sense), tried again and she did very lazilly start, but then like some previous times she died again. Then wouldn't start again. I'm left thinking that as this is all very similar behaviour to my original battery, that maybe I can finally rule out the battery, do you all agree? Or is there something else I should try now I have a new battery?

Bear in mind I tried it multiple times this morning and I couldn't get her to even come close to start. Another neighbor wandered passed and he said if it's starting but then dying, it must be the fuel.

I've also managed to thread this stud/both that holds the plastic coil pack wiring cover in place on the far left:

https://imgur.com/a/9PR458n

Have you done the 'pull the plugs' immediately after it failed to start?  Have you checked the spark and advised? We have to determine if the problem is sparks or fuel.

[je72]

Have you done the 'pull the plugs' immediately after it failed to start?

Yes this morning prior to battery change. It was as immediate as I could manage with disconnecting battery and getting the spark plug out, but bear in mind I'm very slow. It was dry.

Tried cranking it with spark plug out and Mr neighbor said no spark either. So I seem to have no spark or fuel.

Not sure if you've read all the posts I added today, but after I fitted the new battery she did start lazily at the 2nd time is asking, but died after a few moments and hasn't started again. It's cranking faster now though with the new battery.

[Carolyn]

No spark, no fuel.

Immobiliser, or ECU. 

Any  other opinions, folks?