Hamish vs Zero

[m1tch]

For those of us not on FB... Could we get a pic?

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

Photo attached - not the best but you get the idea

Shame it appears they have just merged the pipes together where it bolts onto the cat, if I have seen it properly. This loses the benefit of the negative pressure waves that should arise from the longer equal length pipes. It should incorporate separate collectors at that point.

The Zero appears to have these which is why it has welds where the individual pipes join into the sections that merge and then fasten onto the flange for the cat. This means the collector section is a larger diameter than the manifold pipes themselves and that's what creates the negative pressure waves if it's all designed correctly.

https://www.zeroexhausts.co.uk/images/gallery/large-MK3-MR2-Roadster-2.jpg

Same with the PPE:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mrs+ppe+headers&client=tablet-android-pega&prmd=svin&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjRot6AqL_cAhXqIcAKHW1OAhAQ_AUIEygD&biw=600&bih=960&dpr=2#imgrc=XbT6CfOIqT_8CM:

The manifold I have is a 4-2-1 manifold, same as the Zero, except the Zero manifold joins the pair of cylinder slightly higher up meaning the O2 bungs can be fitted. My manifold still has 2 cylinders going through each side of the flange leading into the Y pipe before the main cat.

[lamcote]

The point is the lack of collectors though. As far as I can see each pair of pipes just merge together prior to the cat flange, with no collector element. Once they merge together like that the potential benefits are gone.

[shnazzle]

Never mind that! Look at the length of those runners!
Sweet jebus

[m1tch]

Never mind that! Look at the length of those runners!
Sweet jebus

Its a bit ridiculous which is why I needed them lol will be interesting to see how the engine sounds vs the stock decat manifold I have.

[lamcote]

I'm sure it will still be better than the standard manifold.

[shnazzle]

I'm sure it will still be better than the standard manifold.

Absolutely. It's probably not far off the ppe length

[lamcote]

The more I look at the Zero the more I like it, go on shnazzle take the plunge and let us know how good it is.

[Amarlborough]

I decided to go Zero a few months back, no regrets.

Spoke to Kevin at Zero (very friendly) had to wait a couple of weeks whilst it was made. It's a work of automotive art and a real credit to Kevin.

The finish was perfect and matched up to the Toyota parts easily. The only downside (maybe) is the manifold to cat, the Toyota 2 ring gaskets won't fit so you either source a gasket or use sealant.

I went sealant
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Granville-0456-200ml-Instant-Gasket/dp/B006HFMAJQ

Says it's O2 safe, no problems so far.

Definitely louder than standard, and car seems perkier

I also believe they do a 2zz version

You also have to factor into the price buying an extra long 02 sensor from the celica

[furbern]

Hi, Unaware of this thread, I rang Zero yesterday. A couple of things: the price I was quoted was 396 + 15  GBP carriage, but no VAT as he isn't registered. Also he said he had had an enquiry for a group buy, from he thought the MR2 Owners club but couldn't remember exactly, but then thought it might be here, so suggested I might like to follow that up before buying off him.
Nigel

[shnazzle]

Hi, Unaware of this thread, I rang Zero yesterday. A couple of things: the price I was quoted was 396 + 15  GBP carriage, but no VAT as he isn't registered. Also he said he had had an enquiry for a group buy, from he thought the MR2 Owners club but couldn't remember exactly, but then thought it might be here, so suggested I might like to follow that up before buying off him.
Nigel

Nice one Nigel. That is indeed the case.
I sent an email asking him about group buy.
the fact that he mentioned it gives me hope. Happy for you to continue the conversation and see what he can offer

[furbern]

Yes he implied that responding to emails was not his favourite thing to do, but said he would be responding (probably,  eventually). And yes once I had had a lie down after I heard the price I am interested in a group buy. The heat shield that is shown on the web site isn't included as he said it vibrated and broke the brackets off so there wasn't much point, but thought a ceramic coating would be a good idea (but that would probably make it worth more than the rest of the car). Have we any idea how many interested parties there are?

[shnazzle]

Details here:
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=65779.0

I'd say about 5 solids and a few maybes?

[jvanzyl]

Might be worth putting out an announcement to see if there are any other 2zz people who want a proper manifold?

Also another possible is seeing if the FB crowd are game if we need to bump numbers up..

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

[Call the midlife!]

Yes he implied that responding to emails was not his favourite thing to do, but said he would be responding (probably,  eventually). And yes once I had had a lie down after I heard the price I am interested in a group buy. The heat shield that is shown on the web site isn't included as he said it vibrated and broke the brackets off so there wasn't much point, but thought a ceramic coating would be a good idea (but that would probably make it worth more than the rest of the car). Have we any idea how many interested parties there are?

Shame about the heat shield as it's lovely and shiny but you've got to admire his honesty in saying that.
I'm a solid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[furbern]

I should have mentioned too that the price etc I mentioned was for a 1ZZ manifold. He asked me was it for 1ZZ or 2ZZ so they must do them, but I didn't inquire about 2ZZ. I think at the moment I am a definite maybe. The old girl has done 84k, standard except for a markiii pipe and de-precatted,  and I am wondering what I will gain by it (not that that has ever stopped me, but I also have 2 daughters and 2 Defenders to support so tend to haemorrhage cash). But I have to admit they are a thing of beauty.

[shnazzle]

Yes he implied that responding to emails was not his favourite thing to do, but said he would be responding (probably,  eventually). And yes once I had had a lie down after I heard the price I am interested in a group buy. The heat shield that is shown on the web site isn't included as he said it vibrated and broke the brackets off so there wasn't much point, but thought a ceramic coating would be a good idea (but that would probably make it worth more than the rest of the car). Have we any idea how many interested parties there are?

Shame about the heat shield as it's lovely and shiny but you've got to admire his honesty in saying that.
I'm a solid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

@Bernie is yours wrapped? It's one thing wrapping my stock de-precat mani and not giving a crap about it but increasing the risk of cracking this thing by wrapping it doesn't sit quite as well with me

[Carolyn]

A quality manifold is not going to crack as a result of wrapping.  Most tales of wrapping causing cracking are not really accurate.

I wrapped a manifold.  It cracked.  Therefore wrapping causes cracking.  Doh!

[shnazzle]

A quality manifold is not going to crack as a result of wrapping.  Most tales of wrapping causing cracking are not really accurate.

I wrapped a manifold.  It cracked.  Therefore wrapping causes cracking.  Doh!

Good news there then
Nobody wants a hot engine bay
Now just to find a nice cat to mate up with it

[Bernie]

Yes he implied that responding to emails was not his favourite thing to do, but said he would be responding (probably,  eventually). And yes once I had had a lie down after I heard the price I am interested in a group buy. The heat shield that is shown on the web site isn't included as he said it vibrated and broke the brackets off so there wasn't much point, but thought a ceramic coating would be a good idea (but that would probably make it worth more than the rest of the car). Have we any idea how many interested parties there are?

Shame about the heat shield as it's lovely and shiny but you've got to admire his honesty in saying that.
I'm a solid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

@Bernie is yours wrapped? It's one thing wrapping my stock de-precat mani and not giving a crap about it but increasing the risk of cracking this thing by wrapping it doesn't sit quite as well with me

Hi Pat

Not wrapped but shiny heat shield that hasn't had that issue

[K T M Rider]

99% sure I want a zero.

100% sure I won't be wrapping or Cera coating it.

A rough average of opinion appears to be that wrapping (or coating) a Mani MAY shorten its life.

Don't think you'll find many people suggesting the opposite (that wrapping can extend life).

Wrapping a mani will certainly expose it to greater extremes of temperature (i.e. it will run hotter but of course still return to ambient) which is generally not desirable for any component.

Chasing fractions of hp at the possible expense of long term reliability is fine for race teams, not so good for a daily driver, so my plan would be to replace my unwrapped (gutted) stock mani with an unwrapped Zero.

Plus I'd much rather be able to SEE the shiny thing I'd just paid lots of dosh for.

[shnazzle]

It's not for hp chasing to be honest. I do it for cat efficiency. Especially if I'm looking to run 200cell.
But also to keep the engine bay from being roasting.

[K T M Rider]

Fair enough.

The point I was trying to make was it is a practice that has come from racing where budgets and objectives can be somewhat different 

However if you want to run a smaller cat then - yes, wrapping now makes more sense to me (as in my mind that would be weighing a fear of shortened Zero life against a fear of MOT emissions failure) 

[FGrob]

Interesting reading through this post, god I remember going through the design process with Kevin, it started with my original cast manifold being sent to him to get the spacing correct, then the goal was to get the pipes as close to equal length as possible and then making collectors as smooth and clean as possible (They have a razor edge profiled into them).

I found that bolting the heat shield together with oversize washers prevented any issues, but I think Keven changed the design of the brackets which gave issues on later manifolds.

It was a great project to get involved with and makes me smile to see it still being discussed / used. 

Enjoy 

Rob (FGRob)

[shnazzle]

Didn't know you were involved in the design! I should have known...

I'm chomping at the bit for mine to arrive. Any day now.

[FGrob]

It's was all good fun

Kevin also modified an original Silverstone Performance (Matt) decat pipe to include a 200 CEL cat, which I understand is still performing well - once you get it nice and hot

I think the original Zero manifold went back 2 or 3 times to get it fitting just right.

Rob