Stage 1 or 2, decisions, decisions...

[shiny]

Majority of the time forum members only comment on things when they go wrong.

I had this when I had my E46 M3 on M3CUTTERS forum.

Chhers

Mate

[michaelb]

This is very true! Perhaps we should have a section on positive stories! Lol

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[shnazzle]

Makes one not want to bother to be honest. Just stock rebuild and enjoy it

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[Bernie]

I've owned the car 5.5 years and FGrob had them installed many years before, all mapped after install by Noble and absolutely no problems in all that time

[Call the midlife!]

Makes one not want to bother to be honest. Just stock rebuild and enjoy it

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Jeez, that dry hit really did for you didn't it??[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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[Call the midlife!]

I've owned the car 5.5 years and FGrob had them installed many years before, all mapped after install by Noble and absolutely no problems in all that time

Just remind me though Bernie, are yours 1 or 2 Crowers? I can't remember, my main issue is not wether they're any good, I know they are and get the results I'm after in the long term.
It's how long I can feasibly live with the car on stage 2s before I take it to get mapped somewhere. I know the standard ECU will cope with stage 1 and you need a standalone to fully exploit the stage 2 but is it actually driveable on the standard ECU?
I'll be getting it mapped sooner or later but if I'm shipping cams from the US I might as well lash out the extra £300 or so on the springs as well and go stage 2.


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[Bernie]

I've owned the car 5.5 years and FGrob had them installed many years before, all mapped after install by Noble and absolutely no problems in all that time

Just remind me though Bernie, are yours 1 or 2 Crowers? I can't remember, my main issue is not wether they're any good, I know they are and get the results I'm after in the long term.
It's how long I can feasibly live with the car on stage 2s before I take it to get mapped somewhere. I know the standard ECU will cope with stage 1 and you need a standalone to fully exploit the stage 2 but is it actually driveable on the standard ECU?
I'll be getting it mapped sooner or later but if I'm shipping cams from the US I might as well lash out the extra £300 or so on the springs as well and go stage 2.


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Stage 1 with Apexi ECU all mapped after install

[Call the midlife!]

I've owned the car 5.5 years and FGrob had them installed many years before, all mapped after install by Noble and absolutely no problems in all that time

Just remind me though Bernie, are yours 1 or 2 Crowers? I can't remember, my main issue is not wether they're any good, I know they are and get the results I'm after in the long term.
It's how long I can feasibly live with the car on stage 2s before I take it to get mapped somewhere. I know the standard ECU will cope with stage 1 and you need a standalone to fully exploit the stage 2 but is it actually driveable on the standard ECU?
I'll be getting it mapped sooner or later but if I'm shipping cams from the US I might as well lash out the extra £300 or so on the springs as well and go stage 2.


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Stage 1 with Apexi ECU all mapped after install

Yeah, thought that was the case, cheers. I've no worries in the quality/performance side of the Crowers and not chasing the last ounce of performance, it's more a practically thing. While I'm doing it I might as well do the big one![emoji38]


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[shnazzle]

Makes one not want to bother to be honest. Just stock rebuild and enjoy it

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Jeez, that dry hit really did for you didn't it??[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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LOL!! You been spying on me??

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[Call the midlife!]

Makes one not want to bother to be honest. Just stock rebuild and enjoy it

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Jeez, that dry hit really did for you didn't it??[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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LOL!! You been spying on me??

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Nope! It came up in my Tapatalk feed last night, I thought it was the beer and curries playing tricks on my mind at first, ended up reading it all and realising it was 10 minutes of my life I'll never get back...[emoji23]


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[1979scotte]

Interesting read.... I am going down the N/A route too.

I am looking at Apexi management? Will be interested in the mentioned Emanage
results above though.

Have you purchased the Apexi?
I would consider Ecumaster classic or black as a much more modern product with greater features for possibly not much more money.
Especially with the UK group buy price.

[shiny]

Makes one not want to bother to be honest. Just stock rebuild and enjoy it

Boring !!!

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[Call the midlife!]

Makes one not want to bother to be honest. Just stock rebuild and enjoy it

Boring !!!

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Ooooh... shots fired![emoji23]


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[K T M Rider]

Just remind me though Bernie, are yours 1 or 2 Crowers? I can't remember, my main issue is not we.ther they're any good, I know they are and get the results I'm after in the long term.
It's how long I can feasibly live with the car on stage 2s before I take it to get mapped somewhere.............

Personally I would be wondering how liveable it would be as a road car on stage 2s even after it has been mapped, especially if you are just using a piggyback, as I believe the emanage can only adjust the fuel and ignition maps not the VVTI. I would be concerned that it would blow a hole in your bottom end torque curve.

Never had the money to look into tuning my previous 2s, but with a Zero on the way and a Unichip picked up on here last month (yet to fit) I have also wondered about eventually changing the cams, but probably wouldn't ever look to go beyond stage 1s myself.

There is a decent amount of knowledge on here about using the stage 1 cams with an otherwise relatively stock engine (if you check the stickies at the top you can see that Wabbitkilla went this route as well as FGrob) and it is a proven route to a practical road tune with circa 170bhp.
It seems that Tommyzooms car makes good torque on stage 2 cams, but as you are probably already aware it also uses 12.1 pistons (stock is 10,1 I believe so a significant compression hike) has had some head work and uses a standalone.........

Suggest you have a good read up on Spyderchat (if you haven't already) as I would imagine that stage 2 crower fitment will be a more well trodden path on there. 

Have you seen this review for the stage 1s on MWR?

1 review for Crower Cam Set – Toyota 1ZZ-FE – Stage 1

Rated 4 out of 5
christopher mack – March 6, 2009

Nice cams, easy to install and customer support from crower is very good. Power increase is noticable, I hav'nt had it on a dyno yet, but the car pulls much harder and is consistant through out the rev range. I did'nt notice any drop in torque like a lot of people have complained about with the stage 2 cams. All in all a great product, great mod, I would highly reccomend. Sounds great with my AEM intake too.


 

[Call the midlife!]

Yeah, as I said in my initial post I've read all the various posts and am aware of the limitations of the Emanage etc. Was just canvassing opinions or facts on if it would actually run the stage 2s without a standalone, something we've still not got to the bottom of.
For what it's worth the guy at MWR suggested I would get the best useable improvement from the stage 1 over a stage 2 WITHOUT a standalone to change the rev limits.
I think I'm leaning towards staying with the stage 1, pending a phone call or two in the week.


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[K T M Rider]

Perhaps I slightly got the wrong end of the stick. When you said how long can you live with it on stage 2s before you get it mapped somewhere, I had assumed you meant you would be getting the Emanage mapped, however I'm thinking now you meant a standalone ??

[Call the midlife!]

Perhaps I slightly got the wrong end of the stick. When you said how long can you live with it on stage 2s before you get it mapped somewhere, I had assumed you meant you would be getting the Emanage mapped, however I'm thinking now you meant a standalone ??

Nah, it's always been the plan to get a standalone eventually, the Blue is just a stopgap until I do. Wether it be Greggs or somewhere more local.


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[michaelb]

The stage 2 cams should be absolutely fine with a standalone then mate

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[K T M Rider]

Perhaps I slightly got the wrong end of the stick. When you said how long can you live with it on stage 2s before you get it mapped somewhere, I had assumed you meant you would be getting the Emanage mapped, however I'm thinking now you meant a standalone ??

Nah, it's always been the plan to get a standalone eventually, the Blue is just a stopgap until I do. Wether it be Greggs or somewhere more local.


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Ok, now it all makes a bit more sense  Definitely alot more logical to get a standalone if looking at stage 2s but you didn't actually mention that in your original post - just something about going to greggs which I thought might just be you changing your pie supplier 

[Call the midlife!]

Perhaps I slightly got the wrong end of the stick. When you said how long can you live with it on stage 2s before you get it mapped somewhere, I had assumed you meant you would be getting the Emanage mapped, however I'm thinking now you meant a standalone ??

Nah, it's always been the plan to get a standalone eventually, the Blue is just a stopgap until I do. Wether it be Greggs or somewhere more local.


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Ok, now it all makes a bit more sense  Definitely alot more logical to get a standalone if looking at stage 2s but you didn't actually mention that in your original post - just something about going to greggs which I thought might just be you changing your pie supplier 

I thought EVERYONE knew about Greggs...[emoji38]
We still haven't got an answer on if it'll run WITHOUT the standalone though...


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[Call the midlife!]

Perhaps I slightly got the wrong end of the stick. When you said how long can you live with it on stage 2s before you get it mapped somewhere, I had assumed you meant you would be getting the Emanage mapped, however I'm thinking now you meant a standalone ??

Nah, it's always been the plan to get a standalone eventually, the Blue is just a stopgap until I do. Wether it be Greggs or somewhere more local.


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Ok, now it all makes a bit more sense  Definitely alot more logical to get a standalone if looking at stage 2s but you didn't actually mention that in your original post - just something about going to greggs which I thought might just be you changing your pie supplier 

I thought EVERYONE knew about Greggs...[emoji38]
We still haven't got an answer on if it'll run WITHOUT the standalone though...


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Oh and for what it's worth, I wouldn't go near a Greggs pie unless I was really desperate...


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[michaelb]

Lee told me it would run on the Celica ecu but the idle would need to be adjusted to a little higher. A standalone will get all you can out of the stage 2 cams though, whereas the stock ecu won't

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[shnazzle]

Cams, springs, valves, potentially some buckets, free(er) flowing exhaust a standalone ecu for 30ish hp

3.5k? Excluding engine rebuild, call it 500.
4k?

Does that sound about right?

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[Call the midlife!]

Cams, springs, valves, potentially some buckets, free(er) flowing exhaust a standalone ecu for 30ish hp

3.5k? Excluding engine rebuild, call it 500.
4k?

Does that sound about right?

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Well, when you put it like that...


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[K T M Rider]

Cams, springs, valves, potentially some buckets, free(er) flowing exhaust a standalone ecu for 30ish hp

3.5k? Excluding engine rebuild, call it 500.
4k?

Does that sound about right?

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Well, when you put it like that...


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and less low rpm torque?