Intercooler positioning if you're turboing a 2zz

michaelb · November 10, 2018, 16:48

I'm looking at a refurbished turbo from Lewis Winpenny. He is the one advising me that the GT2560 would more than meet my needs of 280-300hp. He has asked loads of questions regarding my current 2zz around my stage 2 cams and am I increasing my rev limit. He has more expensive turbo's for sale but isn't pushing them on me as he says this one will work fine.

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dan944 · November 10, 2018, 17:03

The turbo specs on turbodynamics day the 2560r is good for up to 270hp.

The 2860r is good up to 360

They are definitely two different turbos. The 2560 isn't much different to the 2554.

I have another car with the 2860. And it's huge in comparison.

michaelb · November 10, 2018, 17:24

I can get a GT2860, will that be ok for me?

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shnazzle · November 10, 2018, 17:25

Bear in mind it's not just about top end power mate.
The 2zz flows a lot more than the 1zz but still you have to make sure you've got the turbo matched up to the flow capacity of the block to make it a pleasant drive.
You could end up in a situation where you don't see much power until you're reaching top end Rpm.

It's not easy, and you're very right to take the "I don't know what's best, so will enquire from others" approach.

The 2554r matches the 1zz very nicely but is too small for 2zz, despite what the max power figure quotes.
The 2560 is getting there. The 2860r really maximises the efficiency of the turbo vs the flow capability of the 2zz.

Helen's car (now for sale, Jack), has a smaller turbo than the 2554 in Dan's. While they make similar power, Dan's does so with much more ease, lower EGTs, lower psi and lower stress on the turbo.

The 2jz is a flowing monster. It's layout also lends itself to more flexibility around turbo selection. The 2zz (especially with lift) is a bit more fussy. Get it right and you have a weapon. Get it wrong and you're really trying your already high comp engine.
(remember, 2zz is 12:1 compression. High comp+turbo is not the best combo).

Mitch Dore on YouTube has a turbo 2zz. Maybe worth a look see?

michaelb · November 10, 2018, 17:37

I can get a 2860, I'll go with that then

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1979scotte · November 10, 2018, 18:03

How much for the refurbished turbo?

Brand new GT2860RS or GT2871R are under £800

I have had issues with refurbished turbos myself Im not the only one.
If you don't have the cash why not wait until you do.

michaelb · November 10, 2018, 18:07

I can get a refurbished GT2860 for around 350-400

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michaelb · November 10, 2018, 18:08

Not sure about the RS bit at the end though. I know it's a journal bearing turbo

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dan944 · November 10, 2018, 18:10

Quote from: michaelb on November 10, 2018, 18:08
Not sure about the RS bit at the end though. I know it's a journal bearing turbo

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Turbo dynamics do ball bearing gt2860r for £650. I believe they give a much better spool. I went for the Ball bearing turbo.

1979scotte · November 10, 2018, 18:26

Quote from: michaelb on November 10, 2018, 18:08
Not sure about the RS bit at the end though. I know it's a journal bearing turbo

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GT2860RS has the quickest spool of any 28xx turbo.
It's ball bearing and I wouldn't cut corners and go journal it's old tech.
Any Garrett turbo that ends in R is ball bearing FYI.

Take a step back.
Only you know what you can afford and how long it will take you to save.
Give yourself sometime to understand turbos and how they work so you get what you actually want.

tomaky · November 10, 2018, 19:02

This whole process doesn't need to be a rush. Take your time to learn. Take your time to save. Do it right first time. Many have failed to build the car they want and have spent over the odds. You can either learn the hard way or the easy way. Everyone above has done an incredible amount of research into this topic.
I also concur a minimum gt2860 for a 2ZZ.

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michaelb · November 10, 2018, 19:09

Unfortunately patience has never been a virtue of mine mate lol I am going to get the GT2860 and I can get it with either an A/R 0.64 or A/R 0.86. I think I'll go for the 0.86. In addition, I can get the billet upgraded, which I think I'll do to.

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1979scotte · November 10, 2018, 19:14

Quote from: michaelb on November 10, 2018, 19:09
Unfortunately patience has never been a virtue of mine mate lol I am going to get the GT2860 and I can get it with either an A/R 0.64 or A/R 0.86. I think I'll go for the 0.86. In addition, I can get the billet upgraded, which I think I'll do to.

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Would go with the 0.86 with the 2zz too.
What exactly is the billet upgraded?

michaelb · November 10, 2018, 19:16

An upgrade of the billet is lighter and provides a quicker spool, plus the blades can have the angle adjusted to be more aggressive if you want

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tomaky · November 10, 2018, 19:18

All this effort I'd just go buy the 2860rs.if I was to re do a turbo kit I'd spend all I can on the turbo.

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michaelb · November 10, 2018, 19:21

I can get all this for £400 though, so worth the effort!

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1979scotte · November 10, 2018, 19:22

Quote from: michaelb on November 10, 2018, 19:16
An upgrade of the billet is lighter and provides a quicker spool, plus the blades can have the angle adjusted to be more aggressive if you want

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You're having the compressor machined to improve the turbo.
The metal used is sometimes referred to as billet.
Sounds to me just like a gt2860rs.

michaelb · November 10, 2018, 19:23

I can get it all done for £400 though

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1979scotte · November 10, 2018, 19:27

Right I'm going to say it and I'm sorry if it causes offence.
I think you're having your pants pulled down.
Pretty sure I paid 300 ish for a refurbed TB2559 which is an old rubbish turbo can't see how you would get a modified gt2860 for not much more.

You a have a state of the art ECU and you're looking at cheap crap turbos it's the wrong way to go.
Hopefully you get lucky and it all works out.

michaelb · November 10, 2018, 19:29

Thanks for the pep talk friend lol

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michaelb · November 10, 2018, 19:36

My 2zz is currently running pretty much as well as any race tuned 2zz out there. Even Lee Mabbet was impressed. I may come across as a bit dippy, but Im really not stupid. I perhaps talk out loud when I should hold back, but it's often my way of figuring things out. I can assure you, when I get round to getting the turbo built, it will be a good job. However, occasionally you can find bargins, and sometimes new isn't always better than old.

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shnazzle · November 10, 2018, 20:46

I say build it however you think is best mate. Enjoy it, learn from it, report back so we can all learn.

Call the midlife! · November 10, 2018, 20:49

Build it, bring it to Ding Day...

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michaelb · November 10, 2018, 20:53

I will check the turbo out thoroughly before I buy but I'm not an endless pot of money! I'd love to spend a lot and put the very best in the car, but it's just not possible - or economical. I've already sent around 10k on the car! This is my 4th car in the house and I drive it maybe 600 miles a year.

If I have to put an older version of a turbo in, then so be it.

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dan944 · November 10, 2018, 20:55

On the upside. If you find the turbo is crap. You can always replace it with a good one as the fittings should all be the same.