FL Headlights Projection beam LEDs

Started by BigMick, December 18, 2018, 10:10

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BahnStormer

A quick update: My headlights sailed through two FULL MOT's with the LED's last week - one at a test centre (where it failed, but not headlight - emissions: high Lambda / manifold leak) and another at the garage where the manifold leak was investigated and then retested (I was in a rush and didn't want to have to book a retest at the other site).

No mention of the lights at all.

I have:
Novsight HB4 LED fogs - 10k lum, VERY bright - not really usable unless genuinely really foggy...
Novsight LED HB3 highbeams - 10k lum - again - VERY bright!
TXVSO8 H7's's (£20 budget ones) in the projectors for dipped beam - simple, straight swap for the halogens, although rated as "10k lum", they are nowhere near as bright as the Novsight bulbs that I have on standby - they will probably be fitted, but I've only been able to run them held in place by hand - I still need to find a way of mounting them properly so that the bulbs can be swapped (i.e. not glued in!).
Black 2006: AC & heated leather: 4x Megillian braces, Koni/Tein custom suspension, MTEC+YS+braided brakes, Toyosports manifold, TTE exhaust, Conti PremiumContact2(summer)/ Conti TS860S(winter) / YokoAD08RS (track/summer), Pioneer MVH-390BT + TS-E171ci, FBSW, Robbins mohair hood.

mitreklov

That is encouraging, mine also passed it's MOT with the LED head light set up I have.
2006 Spectra Blue, Hardtop, AC

BahnStormer

#27
Quote from: mr2noob on October 27, 2019, 21:40Forgive me for necrothreading, but ....

You're forgiven, I was about to resurrect this one!!!

Quote from: mr2noob on October 27, 2019, 21:40@BahnStormer and @mitrelkov how much better are LEDs compared to stock halogens?

I've used OSRAM Rally 65W H7 in my bike and car for together 12 years (without even one bulbs dying...), but as I was thinking of testing OSRAM 80W H7 (and hoping it wouldn't melt my lens and assembly) I came across the LED bulbs and this topic. Now I'm intrigued.

For the fogs + highbeams, the Novsights are like night and day - excuse the pun, but they really are MASSIVELY better than any 50W bulb I've found... really even, clear beam pattern too.

Sadly, for the most important ones, the high-end LED's I bought wouldn't fit, due to the huge heatsink behind them and the budget dipped beam H7's I've got are pretty uninspiring... they look much cleaner (clinical white rather than yellow) and the beam pattern is really even: on average for the lit area, I'd say slightly brighter than basic halogens but the top end 50W Halogens definitely cut a more obvious pattern - possibly more noticeable because of the variable beam pattern the Halogens normally cast. They're fine on country lanes, but when you're in the city, they scarcely cast a brighter light on the ground than a bright streetlight, so not great.

Gimme a couple of weeks* - I'm about to test a new solution on my new MR2... I think I've eventually found a new high-end LED and the correct spacer that SHOULD fit without any manipulation required. Total cost expected ~£50 for the lot (similar to 2x high end 50W Halogens).

*I have the LED's already and I ordered the spacers last week, but they're on a boat / SLOW plane from China...

Subscribe to this thread - if the new plan works, I'll post the links, part numbers, order details, install instructions, etc here.

edit: I'll be comparing the output of these to other bulbs in these lights rather than other cars as the headlights on my new '2 have that nasty internal crazing that means I think I'll need a new pair of lenses to get any really decent output from them.
Black 2006: AC & heated leather: 4x Megillian braces, Koni/Tein custom suspension, MTEC+YS+braided brakes, Toyosports manifold, TTE exhaust, Conti PremiumContact2(summer)/ Conti TS860S(winter) / YokoAD08RS (track/summer), Pioneer MVH-390BT + TS-E171ci, FBSW, Robbins mohair hood.

BahnStormer

#28
Okay - it worked - full write up tomorrow/later if I have the time...

Is it noticably different - without a doubt*... is it worth >£40 vs ~£10... debatable... would I do it again - definitely!

*most noticeably on street-lit A roads where it now cuts a clear pattern on the ground where the beam pattern is.

The "bulbs" are the 2019 edition of the Novsight H7 LED (HERE)... £43 though, but all the other LED's I've tried have either had massive heatsinks or were tiny and pretty weedy (like my budget ones).

The MUCH cheaper Novsight's (£20-£25 with the massive heatsinks) are the ones I have on my fogs + high beams...

I took reasonable tripod photo's for comparison with:
1) my fairly expensive Halfords Halogens (>£20 per bulbs better than any of the Osram/Philips bulbs)
2) my budget LED's (£10-£12 a pair)
3) the new project (2019 Novsight's) at £43 for the pair....

I'll post those tomorrow as I need to get them off the proper camera though!

Hopefully those will at least allow you to see how much the crazing on my lenses is messing up the light :(

The plastic spacer that you need is in the pic below: eBay links (HERE @ ~£2 and HERE @ ~£4)... I bought both as I wanted spares, in case I broke one... same part, same delivery time, so buy the cheaper one unless you're impatient like me and want to spend the money to get a better chance of one arriving sooner....
Black 2006: AC & heated leather: 4x Megillian braces, Koni/Tein custom suspension, MTEC+YS+braided brakes, Toyosports manifold, TTE exhaust, Conti PremiumContact2(summer)/ Conti TS860S(winter) / YokoAD08RS (track/summer), Pioneer MVH-390BT + TS-E171ci, FBSW, Robbins mohair hood.

BahnStormer

#29
Quote from: BahnStormer on November  7, 2019, 03:25Okay - it worked - full write up tomorrow/later if I have the time...

Is it noticably different - without a doubt*... is it worth >£40 vs ~£10... debatable... would I do it again - definitely!

*most noticeably on street-lit A roads where it now cuts a clear pattern on the ground where the beam pattern is.

The "bulbs" are the 2019 edition of the Novsight H7 LED (HERE)... £43 though, but all the other LED's I've tried have either had massive heatsinks or were tiny and pretty weedy (like my budget ones).

The MUCH cheaper Novsight's (£20-£25 with the massive heatsinks) are the ones I have on my fogs + high beams...

I took reasonable tripod photo's for comparison with:
1) my fairly expensive Halfords Halogens (>£20 per bulbs better than any of the Osram/Philips bulbs)
2) my budget LED's (£10-£12 a pair)
3) the new project (2019 Novsight's) at £43 for the pair....

I'll post those tomorrow as I need to get them off the proper camera though!

Hopefully those will at least allow you to see how much the crazing on my lenses is messing up the light :(

The plastic spacer that you need is in the pic below: eBay links (HERE @ ~£2 and HERE @ ~£4)... I bought both as I wanted spares, in case I broke one... same part, same delivery time, so buy the cheaper one unless you're impatient like me and want to spend the money to get a better chance of one arriving sooner....

There are two after-thought concerns though:
1) installation - with the rain coming in, late time, etc I took a bit of a skortcut with lower part of the I actually have mine over the lower part of the little right-angled plug... and that has a VERY small fan inside it.... post install regret - I should have spent more time trying to get the lower arm into the narrow gap between the plug and the spacer. I'll try to sketch something one day if people need this explained. It will probably be apparent when you're trying to install them.


2) output - it is way better than any other Halogen/LED I've ever had, but it definitely increases the one small fragment heading high and right - it's very small and not sure if it would be an MOT fail, but it is more noticeable...

edit: the output is great IF you can get the retention clips to hold the LED unit in place. The 2019 Novsight is a lot easier to fit than the earlier version (2017) - those TXVSO's have a perfect beam pattern, but pretty ordinary output and after going back and forth, I'm not sure the 2019 Novsights are worth the hassle as the beam pattern is too difficult to maintain - I'm back on the Halford Premium Halogens for a bit.
edit2: I may have a solution - TBC in the next day or two!
Black 2006: AC & heated leather: 4x Megillian braces, Koni/Tein custom suspension, MTEC+YS+braided brakes, Toyosports manifold, TTE exhaust, Conti PremiumContact2(summer)/ Conti TS860S(winter) / YokoAD08RS (track/summer), Pioneer MVH-390BT + TS-E171ci, FBSW, Robbins mohair hood.

BahnStormer

Here are the "easy" photo's (off my phone/DropBox)...

1&2: Camera setup - which also shows quite how dark the alley was with a phone flash.

3: My headlight lens, from the top, which highlights the crazing more...

4&5: The 2019 Novsight H7's and the spacers - note that you have to twist the metal ring to unlock the baynonet and then take it off, put the spacer in place - "legs" pointing towards the front, then put the metal piece back on.... and when you do - be sure to rotate it so the tab goes towards the top (with the lead pointing down).
Black 2006: AC & heated leather: 4x Megillian braces, Koni/Tein custom suspension, MTEC+YS+braided brakes, Toyosports manifold, TTE exhaust, Conti PremiumContact2(summer)/ Conti TS860S(winter) / YokoAD08RS (track/summer), Pioneer MVH-390BT + TS-E171ci, FBSW, Robbins mohair hood.

BahnStormer

Quote from: mr2noob on November  7, 2019, 16:53Is it just my imagination or is your headlight really in a bad shape? There seems to be a lot of scratches in it.

That's all my comments about the "crazing" and why I took that photo - they've been refurbed twice: once by a previous owner with what must have been a handful of gravel... and then professionally at Shinding South. Too little too late.....

I need to see how Christmas goes, but I think I'll be spending the £355 on a new set soon :(
Black 2006: AC & heated leather: 4x Megillian braces, Koni/Tein custom suspension, MTEC+YS+braided brakes, Toyosports manifold, TTE exhaust, Conti PremiumContact2(summer)/ Conti TS860S(winter) / YokoAD08RS (track/summer), Pioneer MVH-390BT + TS-E171ci, FBSW, Robbins mohair hood.

BahnStormer

#32
Quote from: mr2noob on November  8, 2019, 00:08
Quote from: BahnStormer on November  7, 2019, 22:02I need to see how Christmas goes, but I think I'll be spending the £355 on a new set soon :(

Count yourself lucky it's only 355. I had to spend 700 eur cause only one person in Europe was selling them that I could find and he wanted premium for them. :(

That sounds pretty brutal on the pricing!

There was rain on the lens for my last photo from the light beams (it's just a blur!) -so I'll try to grab another photo - it's my local sports club that I'm at all the time, but I think it will be too busy tonight as I'll be there earlier... probably good for tomorrow night though, when I'll be there a lot later.

And I'll get a photo with foglights too  :o
Black 2006: AC & heated leather: 4x Megillian braces, Koni/Tein custom suspension, MTEC+YS+braided brakes, Toyosports manifold, TTE exhaust, Conti PremiumContact2(summer)/ Conti TS860S(winter) / YokoAD08RS (track/summer), Pioneer MVH-390BT + TS-E171ci, FBSW, Robbins mohair hood.

Petrus

Quote from: BahnStormer on November  7, 2019, 22:02I need to see how Christmas goes, but I think I'll be spending the £355 on a new set soon :(

Have you tried the split unit (headlight and/or relationship) method yet? If it works you´ll have saved 355 and if it does not, you´ve lost none. Lee explains it pretty well I think.

BahnStormer

Quote from: Petrus on November 11, 2019, 13:03
Quote from: BahnStormer on November  7, 2019, 22:02I need to see how Christmas goes, but I think I'll be spending the £355 on a new set soon :(

Have you tried the split unit (headlight and/or relationship) method yet? If it works you´ll have saved 355 and if it does not, you´ve lost none. Lee explains it pretty well I think.


Wasn't Lee's setup on PFL's... and in order to Joey mod them (or something similar?)... mine have lenses that have surface scratching and micro-cracks through the entire depth over the entire surface....until I get rid of the lens, I'm not getting any decent light out of mine..l.
Black 2006: AC & heated leather: 4x Megillian braces, Koni/Tein custom suspension, MTEC+YS+braided brakes, Toyosports manifold, TTE exhaust, Conti PremiumContact2(summer)/ Conti TS860S(winter) / YokoAD08RS (track/summer), Pioneer MVH-390BT + TS-E171ci, FBSW, Robbins mohair hood.

Petrus

Quote from: BahnStormer on November 11, 2019, 19:54Wasn't Lee's setup on PFL's... and in order to Joey mod them (or something similar?)...[/qoute]

Yes.
It still serves to polish the inside if needed, regardless the type.

Quotemine have lenses that have surface scratching and micro-cracks through the entire depth over the entire surface....until I get rid of the lens, I'm not getting any decent light out of mine..l.

That´s that then. New ones it is :-(
You may be lucky though with Noob´s

BahnStormer

Quote from: Petrus on November 11, 2019, 20:07That´s that then. New ones it is :-(
You may be lucky though with Noob´s

Pretty sure there's not much that can be done given the level of micro-cracks all over the lenses on mine... the light output is actually pretty decent given how bad the lenses are, but new units are definitely in the plans.

Is @mr2noob giving away old lenses or something?
Black 2006: AC & heated leather: 4x Megillian braces, Koni/Tein custom suspension, MTEC+YS+braided brakes, Toyosports manifold, TTE exhaust, Conti PremiumContact2(summer)/ Conti TS860S(winter) / YokoAD08RS (track/summer), Pioneer MVH-390BT + TS-E171ci, FBSW, Robbins mohair hood.

Petrus


BahnStormer

Quote from: Petrus on November 12, 2019, 14:02
Quote from: BahnStormer on November 12, 2019, 12:29Is @mr2noob giving away old lenses or something?

See #39

Ah - that was it... thanks... I'd seen that comment somewhere along the line.... but had forgotten the details.

TBH - with something that seems to wear out as much as these do, I think it is going the be £150-£200 to get the 2nd hand ones back to London... or £355 for a new set, so I think I'd rather just hang on until I can afford a new set.

It is crazy that the beam pattern can't just be changed by adjusting the projector... in my Audi (LED matrix headlights), it is just a user-configurable option in the car "MMI" (computer).... something like "Headlight beam pattern for driving on the: LEFT/RIGHT".... one click, all done!

I think it is the one time my Audi has EVER been cheaper than the MR2!
Black 2006: AC & heated leather: 4x Megillian braces, Koni/Tein custom suspension, MTEC+YS+braided brakes, Toyosports manifold, TTE exhaust, Conti PremiumContact2(summer)/ Conti TS860S(winter) / YokoAD08RS (track/summer), Pioneer MVH-390BT + TS-E171ci, FBSW, Robbins mohair hood.

househead

Quote from: BahnStormer on November 12, 2019, 14:14It is crazy that the beam pattern can't just be changed by adjusting the projector... in my Audi (LED matrix headlights), it is just a user-configurable option in the car "MMI" (computer).... something like "Headlight beam pattern for driving on the: LEFT/RIGHT".... one click, all done!

I think it is the one time my Audi has EVER been cheaper than the MR2!

All that clever tech and yet ... they don't provide working indicators.

I'll get my coat!
2004 Sable Red Edition, TTE Twin Exhaust, Toyosports Manifold

househead

On a more serious note ... does our car not have a manual adjustment for beam pattern that can be used when driving on the continent?
2004 Sable Red Edition, TTE Twin Exhaust, Toyosports Manifold

BahnStormer

Quote from: househead on November 12, 2019, 17:15
Quote from: BahnStormer on November 12, 2019, 14:14It is crazy that the beam pattern can't just be changed by adjusting the projector... in my Audi (LED matrix headlights), it is just a user-configurable option in the car "MMI" (computer).... something like "Headlight beam pattern for driving on the: LEFT/RIGHT".... one click, all done!

I think it is the one time my Audi has EVER been cheaper than the MR2!

All that clever tech and yet ... they don't provide working indicators.

I'll get my coat!


I'll have you know that @1979scotte complimented me on my "amazing use of indicators for an Audi driver"...
Black 2006: AC & heated leather: 4x Megillian braces, Koni/Tein custom suspension, MTEC+YS+braided brakes, Toyosports manifold, TTE exhaust, Conti PremiumContact2(summer)/ Conti TS860S(winter) / YokoAD08RS (track/summer), Pioneer MVH-390BT + TS-E171ci, FBSW, Robbins mohair hood.

BahnStormer

Quote from: mr2noob on November 12, 2019, 18:25Yeah, it's one of the major regrets of mine over not buying a BMW instead. The E92 I was looking at has a lever on the headlight that switches from RHD to LHD.  Had to ditch perfectly good, brand new, headlight sets because Toyota was too shortsighted to do something like that.

Ummm.... not sure I'm following, E92 vs MR2.... about the only comparison is the "2" in the name!
Black 2006: AC & heated leather: 4x Megillian braces, Koni/Tein custom suspension, MTEC+YS+braided brakes, Toyosports manifold, TTE exhaust, Conti PremiumContact2(summer)/ Conti TS860S(winter) / YokoAD08RS (track/summer), Pioneer MVH-390BT + TS-E171ci, FBSW, Robbins mohair hood.

BahnStormer

Quote from: mr2noob on November 12, 2019, 19:38I was deciding between BMW E92 325i M-Sport and MR2 for pretty much entire Autumn. In the end MR2 won out (again), but there is stuff I regret not going for BMW for instead.

Yeah - not really comparable cars... now maybe if it was a E30 318is you were looking at.... that would be pretty comparable!! I keep the Audi A6 to lug stuff around and to remind me that power and tech don't make for a nice car to drive.... it's the pick of that category (other than the S6/RS6)... but it's still pretty soulless, big and heavy.
Black 2006: AC & heated leather: 4x Megillian braces, Koni/Tein custom suspension, MTEC+YS+braided brakes, Toyosports manifold, TTE exhaust, Conti PremiumContact2(summer)/ Conti TS860S(winter) / YokoAD08RS (track/summer), Pioneer MVH-390BT + TS-E171ci, FBSW, Robbins mohair hood.

Petrus

Quote from: BahnStormer on November 13, 2019, 09:41
Quote from: mr2noob on November 12, 2019, 19:38I was deciding between BMW E92 325i M-Sport and MR2 for pretty much entire Autumn. In the end MR2 won out (again), but there is stuff I regret not going for BMW for instead.

Yeah - not really comparable cars...

Depends.
I looked at a wíldly wide range of ´incomparable´ cars too before finally deiding for the MR Spyder.
The M3 with S65 V8 was on the list as was the S4 V8 and the R32 Golf etc. and several more vintage classics.
The comparable criterium was fun factor and depending on your personal definition of fun a lót of cars become comparable. The car to be replaced was an SY Korando cabrio turbo diesel tuned to 250 hp. Got fined for ´drifting at high speed´ with that one....

BahnStormer

Mine's the A6 Avant with the S5 engine from ~2012 (supercharged V6)... mapped.

After I had mine mapped, a friend was so impressed that he went and bought one and did all the supercharger pulley changes, airflow, etc.... his is currently rolling roaded at 480whp... so would thrash an S6 and even give an RS6 a surprise... until the RS6's turbo's are spooled up.

I was less impressed: the car is fundamentally boring for anything other than launching it.... it's very capable in the corners, but just horrible anywhere near the limit as it's still got lifeless electric steering.

Rather than dump £3k on the upgrade work that my friend had done, I bought an MR2.

I think we're getting a little off-topic....  the carpark I was going to do the new dipped beam photo's  photos on last night was too busy when I left... plus I'd forgotten the proper camera, so I wasn't going to hang about in hope that it got quieter.
Black 2006: AC & heated leather: 4x Megillian braces, Koni/Tein custom suspension, MTEC+YS+braided brakes, Toyosports manifold, TTE exhaust, Conti PremiumContact2(summer)/ Conti TS860S(winter) / YokoAD08RS (track/summer), Pioneer MVH-390BT + TS-E171ci, FBSW, Robbins mohair hood.

Petrus

Quote from: BahnStormer on November 13, 2019, 13:32I think we're getting a little off-topic....  the carpark I was going to do the new dipped beam photo's  photos on last night was too busy when I left... plus I'd forgotten the proper camera, so I wasn't going to hang about in hope that it got quieter.

Promises, promises ;-)


BahnStormer

#47
Okay guys - necro-threading, but this topic contains all the background we need.... so made sense to continue here... the NEXT CHAPTER:

After handing over £450 @ TCB for a pair of brand new OEM headlight units (a good price in today's market!)
and some weekend work at chez @jvanzyl I have new headlight units fitted!

MOT today, get the beam pattern checked with the Halfords Premium Halogens and then I'm going to try the 2021 Novsights after that: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07RX34NTV

I don't want to get too optimistic just yet as I have ZERO idea what the beam pattern will look like just yet, HOWEVER there are two or three reasons to be VERY hopeful:

  • The sales pitch on the new design is very much about the more halogen-like location and size of the light-source.
  • Comparing them side-by-side to the 2019 versions I can confirm that the LED's are at a slightly different location and a LOT longer, so should make the projector unit more effective!
  • The shape of the new unit's heatsink and fan is absolutely perfect - I've done a test-fit on the old headlights (I'll get some photo's later), but the OEM clip is able to slot around the heatsink perfectly and hold the unit VERY securely - no more having one of the arms stretched over the back of a heatsink - which was causing the beam pattern some problems - wasn't tilting, but there was a "high haze" whenever the units slipped, which is why I switched back to my Halogens most of the time.

As an added bonus, the colour should be a little closer to pure white as these are 6000K (UK legal* road colour) rather than 6500K, which looked less blue than a lot of modern LED bulbs, but is technically too blue - 4300K is the natural pure white and the best light output is between 4300K and 5000K.

*note that even correctly fitted LED's are not technically legal, but I have been through several MOT's with three different garages in various MR2's.... PROVIDED the beam pattern was perfect. They've all mentioned (verbally) that LEDs are not technically supposed to be in a 2005/2006/2007 cars, but The most regular of the garages did eventually fail me, but the beam pattern had slipped and it was a mess - failure was for beam pattern, not LED's. At that point the tech did say that since he was going in there to fix the beam pattern, he couldn't ignore the bulbs and we needed to switch it back to Halogens, which was fine as I keep the box + adapters in the frunk, just in case I ever get pulled over (or need to drive through France).

edit: here's the before and after on the headlights being installed!
Black 2006: AC & heated leather: 4x Megillian braces, Koni/Tein custom suspension, MTEC+YS+braided brakes, Toyosports manifold, TTE exhaust, Conti PremiumContact2(summer)/ Conti TS860S(winter) / YokoAD08RS (track/summer), Pioneer MVH-390BT + TS-E171ci, FBSW, Robbins mohair hood.

BahnStormer

This is something I WISH I'd had before I ever saw an MR2 headlight bulb.... so for anybody struggling with clipping and unclipping that H7 bulb retainer - this view of the latch will probably help!

Note that this is the driver's side (RHD), but the shape and orientation is the same on the left, it does NOT mirror.

A few observations:
  • To get them to latch, you need to push where the red arrow is and create a "looping" motion, so that the little hook at the end of that wire goes past the little slot and then comes back and down into it.
  • The obvious "tab" on the H7 needs to go at the top.
  • Whichever you're using (the Toyota bulb adapter / LED plastic bracket I mentioned earlier), there's a further little leg that needs to go at about 7 o'clock (if you were stood in the frunk area, looks at headlight as shown in the photo). 
  • In case it wasn't obvious - DON'T TOUCH ANY SCREWS (not that I did, but I've heard stories)
Black 2006: AC & heated leather: 4x Megillian braces, Koni/Tein custom suspension, MTEC+YS+braided brakes, Toyosports manifold, TTE exhaust, Conti PremiumContact2(summer)/ Conti TS860S(winter) / YokoAD08RS (track/summer), Pioneer MVH-390BT + TS-E171ci, FBSW, Robbins mohair hood.

cptspaulding

Quote from: BahnStormer on January 18, 2022, 10:54As an added bonus, the colour should be a little closer to pure white as these are 6000K (UK legal* road colour) rather than 6500K, which looked less blue than a lot of modern LED bulbs, but is technically too blue - 4300K is the natural pure white and the best light output is between 4300K and 5000K.

Good luck with the fitting of these. I've worked in electrical building services & lighting for 35+ years now & have had to be on my toes this last 15 years since LEDs first made their appearance in the lighting market. Don't get too hung up on colour temperatures (& what is natural pure white is a rather existential question - see Claude Monet's haystacks comparing daylight at different hours of the day). Until the introduction of LED's neutral white was given as 3500K anything below that warm white & above that cool white. Since LEDs have become the norm, the industry, for "reasons", has adopted 4000K as neutral white. LED's produce light more efficiently at the cooler end of the spectrum, & where it doesn't matter too much for human comfort, i.e. exterior lighting or car headlights they tend towards the 6000K range for performance efficacy.

Please keep us up to date on how you think these perform. I'm curious, but not curious enough to dip my toe at least until the majors such as Osram or Philips & the like feel they have a viable product.
Former owner 2003, 2zz conversion.

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