Gary's Track Day/Fast Road Weekend Car 1zz Turbo.. Now Built 2zz Turbo with E153

[Gaz2405]

233bhp...... At the flywheel. 198whp 😂

Good news is, it's down to my incredibly rich map! So all fixable, seems I've been over cautious with the fuel and too aggressive with the timing, pulling both back should see me in a better position.

Also had some part throttle knock which I've now got rid of.

Not too disappointed, it's all a learning curve and I enjoy the learning and mapping as much as the driving it.

I'll continue to tinker then maybe another run.

But I'll probably run it as it is until it needs a built engine then go for a proper ecu and professionally mapped.

[1979scotte]

Got a print out?
Would be nice to know what the torque is doing?


198 at the wheels is pretty good makes for a seriously fast mr2. Your making the same power as the SP240 kit and way more than the TTE turbo.

I'd be happy with that on stock engine and gearbox.

[Gaz2405]

Yeah got the print out, I'll ping them up tonight.

Torque was around 200ftlb at 5k then tailing off.

Ran low tens afr from 2k through to 4.5k which was the main problem.. Fuelling seemed to be okish 11.5 onwards, but did dip at 6k then back up.

So far I've pulled between 2-4 degrees out and leaned the fuel.

Heavy fuelling was masking some det once leaned out so pulled some more timing.

Should be back out in it later this afternoon once th laptop has charged up again.

[Gaz2405]

Graph attached from today.



Been out most of this evening trying to iron out the fuelling issues, which seems to be going in the right direction now.

Am I correct in thinking the TTE Exhaust is quite restrictive on turbo applications?

I've altered my load cells on my map to give me a greater view towards the top of the load and rpm to make making adjustments easier. At the moment I'm not seeing any knock over 25 anywhere in the map.



Timing is pulled out to 12 degrees through all the WOT throttle cells on boost, once I've got the fuelling where I want it I'll start adding some timing back in.

[thetyrant]

Nice numbers and curves all things considered. no wonder it flys!  will be nice once all smoothed out with more tune tweaking

 

[Gaz2405]

Yeah hoping to get out this afternoon with thr laptop to try and smooth things out.

Still undecided as to whether to leave it as is, once I've 'sorted' the map, maybe add a more free flowing exhaust.

Or whether to pay the £300 for it mapping properly.

The way I saw it after 4.5k it was pretty spot on, and when you're giving it the beans in a track day, you're rarely below that rpm figure under load anyway.

It's definitely fast on the road and has a few scalps already from more powerful and expensive machinery.

Either way next stage of the build will be forged and then I'll go down the ecu master route on the group buy.

Should be picking up some coilovers for it on Monday night.

[thetyrant]

Do you know whats causing the lump in graphs around 3800 or is it just map related ?  if not maybe something to do with vvti or boost control ?  other than that it looks decent enough and +100hp over stock its not going to be slow!, I just cant decide if I go turbo or 2zz!   I want reliability for track which is steering me to 2zz but your build has me tempted to turbo, I just know to get turbo as I want it I will spend more!

[Gaz2405]

The jump was down to a rich map, it was dead 10s up until about then.

Boost was at fulk pressure by then as its running standard wastegate pressure.

Vvti, shouldn't have much impact on these engines, or so I'm led to believe.

I'll probably end up driving mine more on the weekend and evenings that track days, so went turbo plus it was easier to build and tinker in the garage in secret until it was done.

[thetyrant]

Ah yes make sense as that's very rich, once you get it into the 11 afr's and smooth out the timing it should pull a lot cleaner, could maybe even get into 12 afr's but as you know its always a compromise between mixture,timing and det but it sound like you getting there

Keep it up

[shnazzle]

That bump is very characteristic of the 1zz. You'll see it on almost every stock-cammed 1zz.
Are you monitoring EGT by any chance? If you're doing self-tuning you might want to watch that as you're leaning things out a fair bit.
IAT ok? 

Vvti, if you can control it, is a bit tighter on turbo apps to reduce overlaps. You don't need as much scavenging with turbo. Pressure waves are massively dampened.

4k-5k range I'd be tempted to agree that you're fighting the TTE or Malian cat. I'd ease off until you can open that up. Pushing it there will leave you susceptible to dangerous fluxes in WBO readings and associated fueling issues.

Looks great though. Very nicely done!

[1979scotte]

Tte exhaust isn't ideal for turbo applications it's also very heavy.

Map looks reasonable little bit of smoothing to do don't like they big bump in torque at 5k and then the way it drops off big time.
Although having a Rotrex and a V6 means I'm spoilt for torque.

[Gaz2405]

That bump is very characteristic of the 1zz. You'll see it on almost every stock-cammed 1zz.
Are you monitoring EGT by any chance? If you're doing self-tuning you might want to watch that as you're leaning things out a fair bit.
IAT ok?

Vvti, if you can control it, is a bit tighter on turbo apps to reduce overlaps. You don't need as much scavenging with turbo. Pressure waves are massively dampened.

4k-5k range I'd be tempted to agree that you're fighting the TTE or Malian cat. I'd ease off until you can open that up. Pushing it there will leave you susceptible to dangerous fluxes in WBO readings and associated fueling issues.

Looks great though. Very nicely done!

Thanks Shnazzle, I'm going to compare a few other vvti maps from spyder club and the celica boys.

Not monitoring EGT's, but I'm a cutely aware of them. I have a spare bung I could weld a sensor into.

IAT's I'm pretty happy with, highest I've seen is 45ish, but generally they're in the mid to high thirties. (whilst at wot) I've got a fan to fit to the heat exchanger plus some bottle necks to take out of the charge cooler system.

I managed a couple of hours last night on it, and have nearly all the WOT under various loads sitting in the mid 11's. It's also way smoother now and you actually get to use the boost that's created earlier on in the map! Rather than the boost just pulling you through richness!

I'd already sorted the cruising part of the map to be very close to stoich and slightly above on gentle throttle.

Think exhaust will be next on the list.

May look at custom, but most likely malian.

[Gaz2405]

Tte exhaust isn't ideal for turbo applications it's also very heavy.

Map looks reasonable little bit of smoothing to do don't like they big bump in torque at 5k and then the way it drops off big time.
Although having a Rotrex and a V6 means I'm spoilt for torque.

You could really feel that hit if toque too.

Pretty sure it was due to the car coming out of its rich cells and then seeing the more aggressive timing at a decent afr. I've pulled the timing over the WOT cells now and it feels much smoother.

I have bags of torque in my daily, shame its in a 2 tonne Ford Ranger though!  😂

[1979scotte]

Tte exhaust isn't ideal for turbo applications it's also very heavy.

Map looks reasonable little bit of smoothing to do don't like they big bump in torque at 5k and then the way it drops off big time.
Although having a Rotrex and a V6 means I'm spoilt for torque.

You could really feel that hit if toque too.

Pretty sure it was due to the car coming out of its rich cells and then seeing the more aggressive timing at a decent afr. I've pulled the timing over the WOT cells now and it feels much smoother.

I have bags of torque in my daily, shame its in a 2 tonne Ford Ranger though!  😂

FYI I make 175 ft-lbs @ 2500 rpm and that's at the wheels.

There really is no replacement for displacement.

If i could go V8 I would 😜

[Gaz2405]

Picked up my coilovers tonight from @gtcc88 from the forum.

Pleasure to meet you.

I've been out again tonight adjusting and tweaking the fuelling on the map, little my little, slowly slowly catchy monkey!

The car now picks up much sooner in the rev range and I'm making 5psi at 2k and 10psi by 3.2kish.

Another couple of weeks doing two or three sessions a week on it and I'll start to bring some timing back in.

I'll aim to have the coilovers fitted this weekend and see how they feel.

[1979scotte]

Sounds good to me.
Only drawback of my Rotrex never going to make 5psi so low in the rev range. Good job I've got 3L to take up the slack.

[Gaz2405]

Couldn't help myself, early morning and back from work for lunch managed to get the coilovers fitted.

Front I reckon 10-15 mins a side.

Rear had to use a small 18v rattle gun to get the tie road nut off and on again.

Test drive tomorrow!

I've got them set up 15 clicks from hard on the rear and 20 on the front.

[Gaz2405]

OK, so I've had a couple of runs out in the car since fitting the coilovers.

The settings I put them on to start with was way to hard, I've ended up winding them all the way out to soft which seems fine for general road use, and I'll most likely stiffen them up for track use.

I've had a few mapping session's with the last one being tonight,finally getting AFR's a WOT to around 11.5.

I've started using the base map, fuel duty table to enrich rather than the INJ correction table and its much easier and allows you to interpolate for a smoother map.

The car will now pull all the way through 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th at WOT, wow its quick!

One thing I've started looking into after having a few higher than usual knocks (2 or 3 over an hour) (quite sporadic with no real pattern), which seem to be caused by timing being higher than what it should be in the main IGN Map tab.

It seems the IGL Map tab is definitely used on the 1ZZ PFC (there is a lot online about it only being used on the rx7 version), i changed the entire map to zero's generally they range from -2 to -12.

Once I'd changed it to zero, the timing recorded in the log was way higher than what the IGN map tab was saying and the car was showing knock really badly.

So  quickly averted the IGL map tab back to what was in place before and no knocks.

However, the logs will often show the timing being slightly higher than shown in the IGN table.

From the looks of it if the IGL map reads -10 then the timing shown in the log is with +-1 deg of the IGN map for the given cell.

It was getting late tonight before I started playing with the IGL map, so I'll do some more playing tomorrow (if i get a pass out) or next week.

Also managed to pick up some spare wet weather tyres in a staggered fitment from @wotugonado should hopefully be picking them up next week at some point.     


So if anyone can shed some light on the IGL map that would be great. (I know its an old ecu, so the winding mechanism might be on its way out!)

I promise I'll go proper standalone when I forge it. 

[1979scotte]

I very impressed that you're trying it a yourself.

I'm not a fan of the PFC it is lacking in modern safety features but if it's working for you well done

[Gaz2405]

Thanks Scott, I'm certain the IGl has a function and is directly related to the IGN map. But it'd just working out under what parameters.

I'm at the stage now where fuelling is only needing minor amendments, but what's good for load in one gear isn't necessarily right for the other gear.

I've verged on the safety side and if one or the other has to run lean or rich, I'm airing on the side of caution and going slightly richer.

Timing on a full pull, from 3k onwards is hovering around 14-15 degrees, which is bring up knock values in the low 20's.

[shnazzle]

Getting the base fueling table is key. So you're spot on.
Good practice for when you get another standalone.

Injector settings and base fueling table (VE) are key to any compensation tables. If you get those wrong, then you'll be chasing your tail forever and make tuning increasingly difficult.

VE doesn't change as it's your engines physical capability to displace air. So get that right for stoich and you're laughing.

[Gaz2405]

I've now trawled through some old celica threads and found slightly different way of how the IGN and IGL are set and a different Vvti map from what I've seen elsewhere.

I'll give each of these a try IGN and IGL 1st, then revert back to old settings to test the vvti map, then all three together.

The IGN seems to have a much more aggressive timing to it, but the IGL it's linked to is majorly different to the one I'm currently running so will be interesting to see what difference it makes.

[Gaz2405]

Ok so managed to get out for hour this lunch time in the car to give the new Map settings a test.

First off drove my usual test route, where there's chance to open the car up with the old settings in.

Pulled over, loaded in a tweaked MWR racing map I'd found from a known good car, although the load and RPM where different so I used it as a basis for to start from.It wasn't the full map only the tabs for IGN, IGL and VVT and went off.

Same road again, car seem to pull much smoother (potential placebo affect) I did have one high knock reading towards the end of third gear, went back and checked through the log and IGN timing seemed to be the cause at 19*.

Wound that cell and the surrounding ones down by a couple of degrees and back out for another test, all seems fine with smooth power delivery, 10psi coming around 2.8k now.

So I finally 99% happy with the timing map and it just minor adjustments to the fuelling now.

I'd spent some time the night before going through logs and updating the base map offline, ready to load up when I next got in the car and AFR's are pretty much exactly where I want them with no peaks and troughs.

I'll put up the Maps below for those interested.

[thetyrant]

Quick question which clutch did you end up with ?   im hopefully picking up a turbo kit at the weekend so if all goes to plan will be joining the 1zz turbo club soon   no doubt my 100k clutch isn't going to be happy about that hence the question!

[Gaz2405]

I went for the 2zz compressor clutch from the corolla.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F302260983274

Be good to have another turbo build going.