Ride hight 2

[Nvy]

Any opinions on the TTE springs? I think these are from Eibach but not sure? Btw you got me seriously thinking of selling my coilovers and other parts and to get KW and stick to KYB/Koni + TTE springs until then.

[thetyrant]

Too low and too soft.
Just spend all your time bottoming out on compressions. Nein danke

They are a bit low but not terrible and highest option out there i could find,  also when i initally had them on stock dampers they were a bit underdamped which didnt help especially if bumpstop isnt shortened to suit,  you should try my car now withe Koni Sports, Tein Springs (shorter bumpstops) and Whiteline ARB's its very good especially for the cost so far

[Petrus]

Too low and too soft.
Just spend all your time bottoming out on compressions. Nein danke

Can imagine the bottoming out issue with 30mm less travel.

I am aiming for just a bit, maybe 10mm, lower and that will result in around 8% more spring rate. With the lighter car I should have léss risc of bumping the stops than standard.
It will not be much of a difference but then I am in general very content with the car and basiacally only looking to correct the change I made by adding lightness. Using the slight lowering this allows is a bonus, as is a slight increase in stiffness.
I hoping that I will not need a stiffer arb as I can do without the extra unloading of the inner rear wheel that gives.

If I would need to go to the Konis, I will most definitely fit spacers on the springs to maintain a bit of wheel travel/ ground clearance.

Got the bridge Tuesday.
Will fit the belly brace too which may mask the overall feeling a bit but it will not affect the beviour in two specific corners  on the local B-road from the neighboring village. They are a great comparative yard stick.  Both are with warmed up AD08r just on the sliding edge, roughly 120 km/h corners with the apex about in the lowest point between two rises.
The first one has a more accute depression and a slight camber. The second is flatter and has a bump just befor straightening out.

[Bernie]

FGrob set mine up with 20mm drop and the EDFC controller makes quite a difference between hard and soft settings
Now changing front tyres to AD08Rs with factory sizes so 55 profile over the 45 on the old Goodyear Eagle F1's looking forward to seeing how more rubber on the front affects the ride


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shnazzle]

The Teins definitely bottom out. And how.

I've bottomed out the TTE on a few occasions.

Mind, I mean bottom out in the "how low can you go bro" way. I.e.. The sump or nappy hits the floor on compressions, not the end of shock travel and hitting the bump stop

[thetyrant]

Im not 100% but are you saying you have bottomed out the sump/nappy when running Tein springs ?  you need to slow down! or find better roads lol

Ive not had an issue with touching any under carriage down while out playing on the roads with my Teins, to be honest im surprised its even possible to be honest unless bumpstops are totally removed!.... but even then its a long way down from sump to the road and im going to have a measure up to see how much rooms there is, my car is pretty low in the middle due to the extra cross bracing and there are a couple of large speedhumps in my town i have go very steady over to prevent that scraping but ive never had it contact while out on the roads that i can recall, i did get quite a large jolt as it slammed into bumpstop on the Alston to Middleton in Teesdale road where there are a couple of big dips in the road on what is otherwise a very nice/smooth section, but that same in any car ive been down there a touch too quick in.

Ive had some very low cars in the past so im maybe over cautious when i see a big dip/compression etc and back it off, i do find i often end up travelling a lot faster than i realise in the MR2 which is strange, normally in low cars speed is enhanced but i guess its so quiet and compliant speed creeps up on me, i had same in the Mazda when i had the Ohlins on there as suspension was so good it begged you to go flat out everywhere!

[shnazzle]

Northumberland roads for you. Lots of little hills, so coming off the crest at speed and then going down the hill, by the time you get to the bottom... *sccrraappee*.

Not once. Lots of times. That was on TTEs and stock (sub 25k miles) suspension.

Teins are even worse as they're lower.

[thetyrant]

Crikey you must be flying    

Car looks well on the Teins but from a function point of view I would like approx 10mm higher so -20mm lower than stock and near double the rate of the Tein, at least on front, i think that would work very well with the Koni's turned up a notch.

[tricky1138]

Northumberland roads for you. Lots of little hills, so coming off the crest at speed and then going down the hill, by the time you get to the bottom... *sccrraappee*.

Not once. Lots of times. That was on TTEs and stock (sub 25k miles) suspension.

Teins are even worse as they're lower.

I must be driving like Miss Daisy!   

Cant remember bottoming out while driving, but like thetyrant, I back off when I see a nasty compression.

I have scraped the mid brace numerous times when going over speed bumps / uneven ground even when going slowly though!

[Petrus]

Northumberland roads for you. Lots of little hills, so coming off the crest at speed and then going down the hill, by the time you get to the bottom... *sccrraappee*.

Quite; like the big bloke in the sky pushes down on you!
Now imagine próper mountains and well maintained tarmac. Add a slight crown to the country road and I have scraped the rear nappy of the lightened hígher car 
To the northwest of our village tte trucks from the stone quarry take short cut to the highway, avoiding the next village. It is officially a campo track with 40 km/h max but the quarry has managed to get it sorted with tarmac. Most corners have ´ruts´ which you oblong cross when pushing it. Managed to toutch the metal seam under the door sill under my bum. Ever so lightly but with the top and windows down, the sound was a proper scare.

[thetyrant]

To me if your bottoming/grounding out an MR2 on regular basis you need to ask if its the car for you as maybe your asking it to do something it never going to be good at,  or just accept its compromised in this area and put up with it, after all they are a cheap, low slung nimble little sportscars not a rally car able to cope with big bumps and jumps and to make them do that well would spoil what its all about imo, it maybe just a different driving style on bad sections of road is needed or probably more likely a different car is the real answer.

Ive owned nearly 40 cars over the years and all too often ive bought something to try and do everything well and nearly always disappointed in some areas often leading to selling the car again, i bought the MR2 as cheap mid engine/rwd fun car for fast road blasts and trackday/sprint events, trying to keep budget sensible is the hard part as i love to try different things especially suspension. However if i wanted to be able to attack bumpy back roads in anger i would buy another Evo as they just deal with it, but ive been there done that 5 times already and like to try new things

[shnazzle]

Mine doesn't ground at all... It's on BCs

[thetyrant]

Mine doesn't ground at all... It's on BCs

  yeah it just shakes your teeth out when it gets bumpy lol

[Petrus]

To me if your bottoming/grounding out an MR2 on regular basis you need to ask if its the car for you as maybe your asking it to do something it never going to be good at,  or just accept its compromised in this area and put up with it, after all they are a cheap, low slung nimble little sportscars not a rally car able to cope with big bumps and jumps and to make them do that well would spoil what its all about imo, it maybe just a different driving style on bad sections of road is needed or probably more likely a different car is the real answer.

Ive owned nearly 40 cars over the years and all too often ive bought something to try and do everything well and nearly always disappointed in some areas often leading to selling the car again, i bought the MR2 as cheap mid engine/rwd fun car for fast road blasts and trackday/sprint events, trying to keep budget sensible is the hard part as i love to try different things especially suspension. However if i wanted to be able to attack bumpy back roads in anger i would buy another Evo as they just deal with it, but ive been there done that 5 times already and like to try new things

Hear, hear.
As I wrote my MR is really quite good enough* and restoring the consquences of me upsetting the ride height will be the ticket. Thát is after all the subject of the thread 

As I also wrote I expect to still have the ´float´ issue through undulating highway corners at highly illegal speeds but hey, I can live with that.
I want the full cabrio experience, so the MX5 and MR2 are the only realistic options.

As I wrote in my intro on the forum, I had to sort out my access path to the farm to be able to get home. Now the green is in full bloom and só pretty that I don´t dare cut it down, mearing the bottom of the MR gets properly brushed. Again not the cár´s issue but it is a a mý real world factor that makes I don´t want the lower, just back to standard.

* Again as I wrote, só nicely balanced that I am véry cautious not to spoil that. I (very) occasionally ground it and  that is hardly the car´s fault  , more a testimony of how good it handles.

[thetyrant]

I had the float issue with my car also, changed springs and sorted alignment this helped a lot but changing dampers sorted it totally.

[Dev]

Im sorry to sound like a broken record but I must emphasize that subjectivity only comes after you have the correct damping.
 
Bottoming out, harshness of the drive and so forth are all products of poor damping due to incorrect design of the damper, valving and not enough shock oil in the case of the Koni inserts.   I know this is a budgeted car however buying correct suspension is the price of admission, after that you can add whatever you like and use whatever tires you like. Paying double for these options will not get you double the performance, it will get you the right performance that only a researched option will give you. 
This is the same with poly bushings, they have to be researched otherwise you will have odd and sometimes dangerous behavior.

[Petrus]

Paying double for these options will not get you double the performance,

That is the law of deminishing returms.
The rule of thumb is that departing from an average ´good´(in this case new OEM shocks/springs), every new level in quality/performance/finish will cost as much as the accumulated steps befor.

The MR2 being an affordable, at least 15 year old, runabout is a complicating perspective.

The age is imo more of a complication than the price. The latter depends on how much value one sees in the experience.
The age is a hárd isue as all of the car will be suboptimal. You mention bushes, let´s add engine mounts, all steering joints, wheel bearings, etcetera.
That gives the perspective of the chain being onsly so strong as the weakest link.
The topic opener is a good example. My issue is the ride height.
That takes us to lowering springs which puts the damping into question which puts replacement dampers into question and down that rabbit hole we find top notch coil overs shining embarassing light on all moving bits/bushings/rubbers/bearings of the chassis.

Quite a neat interesting thread this has turned out to be with a plethora of different, informed, opinions and experiences!!

The seat mounts have arrived in the post office. I´ll try pick them up tomorrow and have a look. Hoping they need only minor mods for the Luso seats.
Looking forward to fit those. If the gf´s refuse to come along, I will go on a road trip with my dog instead. Guaranteed to be less complicated 

p.s. any rc model airplane enthusiasts on here? Not my field of expertise and trying to help my son avoid going down thát rabbit hole/ money pit 

[Dev]

Paying double for these options will not get you double the performance,

That is the law of deminishing returms.
The rule of thumb is that departing from an average ´good´(in this case new OEM shocks/springs), every new level in quality/performance/finish will cost as much as the accumulated steps befor.

The MR2 being an affordable, at least 15 year old, runabout is a complicating perspective.

The age is imo more of a complication than the price. The latter depends on how much value one sees in the experience.
The age is a hárd isue as all of the car will be suboptimal. You mention bushes, let´s add engine mounts, all steering joints, wheel bearings, etcetera.
That gives the perspective of the chain being onsly so strong as the weakest link.
The topic opener is a good example. My issue is the ride height.
That takes us to lowering springs which puts the damping into question which puts replacement dampers into question and down that rabbit hole we find top notch coil overs shining embarassing light on all moving bits/bushings/rubbers/bearings of the chassis.

Quite a neat interesting thread this has turned out to be with a plethora of different, informed, opinions and experiences!!

The seat mounts have arrived in the post office. I´ll try pick them up tomorrow and have a look. Hoping they need only minor mods for the Luso seats.
Looking forward to fit those. If the gf´s refuse to come along, I will go on a road trip with my dog instead. Guaranteed to be less complicated 

p.s. any rc model airplane enthusiasts on here? Not my field of expertise and trying to help my son avoid going down thát rabbit hole/ money pit 

Actually what I was implying is that in this case there is no diminishing returns.  There is only one right way to dampen and that is determined by extensive research, either by probs on real cars with computers gathering data or the shaker rig that KW uses. 
If you look at three of the researched options you will notice a few things that stand out and that is they are twin tube designed and they use spring rates that are very close to each other.  I remember looking at a dyno graph for the KW and Tein SSP long ago and the damping was very similar. 
I imagine if we look at the Cusco shock dyno I bet its similar also.   

You don't buy the more expensive street coilover to race. These options were made primarily for street duty and mild track use where they will perform upto a minimum  standard that can be far more punishing and where durability is a concern. Just about everything else unless it is researched will be substandard and not a compromise.  You will have stiff suspension giving you the illusion of more responsive feedback like a brace or sway bars but it's not the same thing as good damping soaking up the irregularities on the road and literally hugging the road maximizing traction. 

What the Chinese copy cats should have done is replicate a researched set  but for what ever reason, probably cost they didn't  because its much easier to use the same strut body and add difference mounts for a wide range of applications to save costs.   

Some people have taken apart the BC coilovers and have modified the valving which  might be an option to make them a little better but I really don't know if its even worth doing.   

Those Superpro bushings that were developed by an Australian  company for our car were made with research. I know the guy that sent brand new Toyota bushings to the factory and the engineers were able to replicate them in poly. 
That is how its supposed to be done and if its off it can be disastrous and mistakes have happened with other poly bushing manufactures. 

 

[Petrus]

Actually what I was implying is that in this case there is no diminishing returns.  There is only one right way to dampen and that is determined by extensive research, either by probs on real cars with computers gathering data or the shaker rig that KW uses. 

Implying that the car as Toyota sold it was substandard?

I get what you imply Dev, but we differ in opinion.

Btw. You yourself wrote that a set costing twice the money does not buy you twice as good a product. That ís deminishing returns 

Oh, and I remain that in a 15+ years old car, a top notch set of coil overs will highlight several other weak links. In effect resulting in the coils overs not being used to their full potential. This too apllies to the driver skills; not all will use the potential. I would go as far as to state that the average driver is the weakest link and the potential of an average good suspension already beyond their driving.
All in all, a set of quality coil overs will be overkill for many a car/driver and as such an unneccessary expense.
The resident female here in the mountains p.e. needs abs and good tyres with shocks keeping those on the tarmac at below legal speeds. For the rest a large SUV with good bumpers/bull bars and a reverse camera 

[Dev]

Actually what I was implying is that in this case there is no diminishing returns.  There is only one right way to dampen and that is determined by extensive research, either by probs on real cars with computers gathering data or the shaker rig that KW uses. 

Implying that the car as Toyota sold it was substandard?

Btw. You yourself wrote that a set costing twice the money does not buy you twice as good a product. That ís deminishing returns 

Let me break down these two sentences. 

Toyota as well as almost all cars manufactured have done extensive research and development on the damping. They use shaker rigs, gather data with sensors hooked up to dampers, shock dynos and computer modeling.  After that the cars are extensively road tested by experts until they get it right.  A subcontractor like KYB makes the dampers to specification with the right shock body, valving and spring rates. 

I would argue that the stock shocks for most road going vehicles are the ultimate standard however they are built with practicality, safety  and budget in mind, not ultimate handling however they got the damper settings right.

As to the next sentence and you have to excuse my dry wit.   What I meant is, most people think when you buy budgeted you get the maximum amount of value compared to the more expensive product where it becomes diminishing returns and not double the effect. 
Although it might be true for a lot of items it is certainly not true if the budget option is wrong. 

It would be better to compare like items like the TRD to the TEIN SSP,  TEIN SSP to the KW and so forth then an argument can be made as to how much of a difference you are getting with a more expensive option.

Unfortunately we don't have cheaper options that are manufactured and designed close to how Toyota as developed the damping for this car but for a more performance effect with some compromises.   

It would have been nice if Koni were to have made an actual budgeted strut replacement that uses their own tested springs. That would have been a great option but they only offer inserts.  Some other platforms have them and they are reasonably priced but unfortunately because of the limited aftermarket for our cars we only have expensive choices to choose from. 



 

[silversprint]

These are the coilovers I have had on my cars:

List from most street comfortable to least ( spring rates listed)

Koni (custom housing, helper springs)
Koni (stock struts/springs)
KW (4/5kg)
Ohlins (5/7kg)
Tein monosport (4/5kg)
Tein ssp (3/6kg)
Tein HA (3/6kg)
Stance/power Trix/buddy club (5/7)
BC (5/7)
D2 (5/7)

I have s shock dyno in my garage and keep a library of spyder shock dyno charts. It interesting to see the different tuning philosophy between the companies. Some are too conservatives, others just plain lazy, some are strictly tuned for track use. Most of the coilovers developed in the 90s and early 2000s used linear pistons.  Even some of the twintubes used on the spyder are barely digressive. They have to use stiffer springs to try to make up for lack of low speed damping.

A newer shock such as monosport, KW, or custom koni with more digressive pistons works magic on this car.

Also you can replace the pistons in the BC with double digressive bilstein pistons. They are the same size. You can get s fantastic adjustable digressive monotube setup that is hard to beat for the price. I have built a couple of these.

[shnazzle]

These are the coilovers I have had on my cars:

List from most street comfortable to least ( spring rates listed)

Koni (custom housing, helper springs)
Koni (stock struts/springs)
KW (4/5kg)
Ohlins (5/7kg)
Tein monosport (4/5kg)
Tein ssp (3/6kg)
Tein HA (3/6kg)
Stance/power Trix/buddy club (5/7)
BC (5/7)
D2 (5/7)

I have s shock dyno in my garage and keep a library of spyder shock dyno charts. It interesting to see the different tuning philosophy between the companies. Some are too conservatives, others just plain lazy, some are strictly tuned for track use. Most of the coilovers developed in the 90s and early 2000s used linear pistons.  Even some of the twintubes used on the spyder are barely digressive. They have to use stiffer springs to try to make up for lack of low speed damping.

A newer shock such as monosport, KW, or custom koni with more digressive pistons works magic on this car.

Also you can replace the pistons in the BC with double digressive bilstein pistons. They are the same size. You can get s fantastic adjustable digressive monotube setup that is hard to beat for the price. I have built a couple of these.

Tell me more about the BC mod...

[Nvy]

These are the coilovers I have had on my cars:

List from most street comfortable to least ( spring rates listed)

Koni (custom housing, helper springs)
Koni (stock struts/springs)
KW (4/5kg)
Ohlins (5/7kg)
Tein monosport (4/5kg)
Tein ssp (3/6kg)
Tein HA (3/6kg)
Stance/power Trix/buddy club (5/7)
BC (5/7)
D2 (5/7)

I have s shock dyno in my garage and keep a library of spyder shock dyno charts. It interesting to see the different tuning philosophy between the companies. Some are too conservatives, others just plain lazy, some are strictly tuned for track use. Most of the coilovers developed in the 90s and early 2000s used linear pistons.  Even some of the twintubes used on the spyder are barely digressive. They have to use stiffer springs to try to make up for lack of low speed damping.

A newer shock such as monosport, KW, or custom koni with more digressive pistons works magic on this car.

Also you can replace the pistons in the BC with double digressive bilstein pistons. They are the same size. You can get s fantastic adjustable digressive monotube setup that is hard to beat for the price. I have built a couple of these.

Any experience with MeisterR? I find the springs to be rly unmatched to the dampers and have no idea if i should go stiffer or softer. Any idea what test i can perform so i find this out?

[Petrus]

These are the coilovers I have had on my cars:

Thank you for sharing the wealth of personal first hand experience.

btw, off thís topic but; could you please, please pretty please share aphoto of the large wing 

[thetyrant]

These are the coilovers I have had on my cars:

List from most street comfortable to least ( spring rates listed)

Koni (custom housing, helper springs)
Koni (stock struts/springs)
KW (4/5kg)
Ohlins (5/7kg)
Tein monosport (4/5kg)
Tein ssp (3/6kg)
Tein HA (3/6kg)
Stance/power Trix/buddy club (5/7)
BC (5/7)
D2 (5/7)

I have s shock dyno in my garage and keep a library of spyder shock dyno charts. It interesting to see the different tuning philosophy between the companies. Some are too conservatives, others just plain lazy, some are strictly tuned for track use. Most of the coilovers developed in the 90s and early 2000s used linear pistons.  Even some of the twintubes used on the spyder are barely digressive. They have to use stiffer springs to try to make up for lack of low speed damping.

A newer shock such as monosport, KW, or custom koni with more digressive pistons works magic on this car.

Also you can replace the pistons in the BC with double digressive bilstein pistons. They are the same size. You can get s fantastic adjustable digressive monotube setup that is hard to beat for the price. I have built a couple of these.

Interesting do you have dyno comparisons of Koni Sport vs KW V3 vs Tein Monosports vs BC as those are the main choices we have over here in the UK ?

Im currently on Koni Sport, Tein springs and Whiteline Arb to try and make a reasonable road/track compromise but of course its more road based with the soft springs, would be good to see the shock dyno differences with above to compare things for future setups as im torn between coilover spring conversion to increase rates on Konis or just change it all for Kw V3 or Tein MS im not sure.