Whiteline ARB swap

[thetyrant]

Ok next mod on my 2 is going to be uprating the Antiroll Bars (ARB or Sway bars to those over seas ) going for the Whiteline ARB kit front and rear to help further improve handling and reduce body roll on track, im pretty happy with the Koni Sport damper/Tein Spring setup I have as a good compromise for road/track but would like a little extra stiffness for hard cornering on track and don't yet want to go with heavier springs which will spoil road manners, so uprating the ARB is next plan to see If that improves things enough for me.

Before I order the kit I thought it best to get car up on stands last night to make sure I can get the stock bars off, especially the nasty looking front mounting bolts that hold ARB to the body, plenty of cleaning and soaking with WD40 etc and 3 of the 4 bolts are turning freely so should come right out, 4th and last one started to turn ok then just broke with very little pressure on it!  its the lower one on r/h side so will need to drill this out which is going to be fun!....any tips on that? looks like wishbone off to access

Front Drop links will probably be to cut off but most likely replacing them anyhows unless by some miracle they come off in 1 piece and are in good shape, doubtful but you never know! Rears I replaced when fitting dampers so they will come off ok.

Will report as progress moves along, anyone who has done this already and info/tips welcome but swap itself looks simple enough once stubborn bolts are out, frunk cover has to come off to allow access to get front bar out I believe but otherwise just wiggle it out once unbolted I hope.

Ian

[Joesson]

I have had front and rear ARB off to de rust and repaint and don't recall any problem and I'm pretty sure I did that inside the garage that is "standard" too narrow width.

[wotugonado]

If they're the adjustable ones make sure you set them up in the correct hole. I didn't first time and it's the only time I've ever spun the car.

[J03]

Get some heat on those bolts as well 
3 out of 4 sheared on mine & trying to drill them out was such a ballache that I decided to chisel off the captive nuts. This resulted in the nearside bracket parting company with the inner chassis, so that had to be welded back in position 

[thetyrant]

If they're the adjustable ones make sure you set them up in the correct hole. I didn't first time and it's the only time I've ever spun the car.

Are you on the Whiteline adjustables ? thats what im getting so if so what did you find best hole setting ? and which was not

[thetyrant]

Get some heat on those bolts as well 
3 out of 4 sheared on mine & trying to drill them out was such a ballache that I decided to chisel off the captive nuts. This resulted in the nearside bracket parting company with the inner chassis, so that had to be welded back in position 

Yes will have some heat ready in case needed, the bolts to body seem to be good and free now though but if they start to bind will heat.

I think i might see if i can get my dremel in to remove captive nut as getting even a 90 deg drill in and doing a clean job isnt going to be easy without stripping front end right down, i did toy with my new favourite toy an air chisel!  but like you found will probably wreck the bracket itself as its not so sturdy!

[wotugonado]

If they're the adjustable ones make sure you set them up in the correct hole. I didn't first time and it's the only time I've ever spun the car.

Are you on the Whiteline adjustables ? thats what im getting so if so what did you find best hole setting ? and which was not

I've got whiteline on the rear, iirc it's the hole that's leaves the droplink as close to vertical as possible, me and the mechanic put it on one of the other settings and it spun 180 on the test drive....

[thetyrant]

I've got whiteline on the rear, iirc it's the hole that's leaves the droplink as close to vertical as possible, me and the mechanic put it on one of the other settings and it spun 180 on the test drive....

Ok will see how it looks once on the car, im guessing you had it on stiffest setting which is why car was unstable, softening rear off makes it less likely to swap ends.

How much difference did you find uprating the ARB's over stock ?  presume you have uprated front as well ?   

[wotugonado]

Honestly... Not a lot. So I never got around to the front.
I had the biggest handling improvement with the tte replica (or matt) mid brace closely followed by a front upper strut brace. Noticed no difference with the upper rear strut brace over standard....

[thetyrant]

Ok thanks that's kind of good to know, I don't want a dramatic change to balance and feel just to help keep body better controlled on track which they should help with. I already have extra large underbracing which seems to do a good job, car feels stiffer than non-braced cars I tested before buying this one.

Got the front bar removed last night no issues and was no need to remove any trim so don't know why some guides say remove frunk cover but I didn't need to, bar easily wiggled out even with drop links still bolted to it, i still need to sort the mounting bolt that snapped but I have a plan for that aso hopefully that pans out, also went over the rear mountings to make sure they were ok to remove, again 3 of the 4 came out no issues and nice clean threads which I copperslipped and popped back in until have new bar, however the 4th and last one to do was tight and after putting a little more force on ratchet it snapped the captive nut welds inside rear frame...arrrgh!....so  out with the dremel to cut an access flap then I could get a 15mm spanner on captive nut and and bolt came out easily thankfully must of been a bad weld as not much if any corrosion and bolt wasn't seized, will close flap and weld shut once bar is swapped.

More annoyingly is supplier I was getting bars off sold the last kit they had in stock by time I confirmed order next day!.... looking at other suppliers for stock now as Whiteline are quoting 3 weeks for more kits.

[james_ly]

Looking forward to hearing the before and after thoughts. I'm unsure whether to get one or not..

[thetyrant]

Looking forward to hearing the before and after thoughts. I'm unsure whether to get one or not..

I will be sure to do a report once i find some and get them fitted

[thetyrant]

OK managed to source a pair of Whiteline ARB in stock at Coordsport (part-box.com) and they did me a great price on individual bars as I missed out on the kit price by 1  day!  its good to see someone actually holding stock on site these days as its become such a rare thing!, I should have them here tomorrow so that's Saturdays job
Still need to get new front drop links as TCB and GT4-play both haven't replied to my enquires so probably just pick up from local motor factor today.

Also sorted the snapped bolt on front mounting, basically I cut/ground off the captive nut with the snapped bolt in it, luckily there was enough room to get in from side so I could use my reciprocating hacksaw to cut off most of nut and grind rest with dremel, I needed to open the access hole up slightly in bracket but not much so all is now ready for new bar and bolts etc.

[Gaz mr-s]

Interesting reading.  Tyrant/Ian.....you mentioned soaking the bolts with WD40.  I have it & use it frequently, but it's not a penetrant.... the go-to stuff for years has been Plus-gas, & still seems to be favoured when the subject comes up.

[thetyrant]

Yes thats true there is much better stuff if bolts had been properly seized and would of used plusgas and heat etc, but they did turn ok just needed some lube and why i used WD i had, now i think its not actually WD i have but something similar

Brake fluid is a good one if you need it to penetrate and its in a place where it can soak in and there is no paint to damage etc.

[thetyrant]

So they arrived today great service from Coordsport    look a whole lot better than the rusty oem bars thats for sure!...should get them on tomorrow

[Petrus]

...should get them on tomorrow

Do you think you could mount the rear first, do a test drive.
Thén fit the front?

[thetyrant]

...should get them on tomorrow

Do you think you could mount the rear first, do a test drive.
Thén fit the front?

No sorry as front is already off to sort snapped bolt etc, tempted to just do front and test but car is up on stands so prob do both.

[Dev]

...should get them on tomorrow

Do you think you could mount the rear first, do a test drive.
Thén fit the front?

No sorry as front is already off to sort snapped bolt etc, tempted to just do front and test but car is up on stands so prob do both.

Thats what I did with mine before I got the rear. I drove like this for a good while and it was fun because it was challenging. 
In order to stop the understeer around tight turns you need to step on the accelerator and balance it out.  It made for an interesting driving learning experience to let  me know how to balance the car using the pedals. 
Once I got the While line rear I was able to dial in the right amount of oversteer for my set up and driving style where I like it more neutral.

[JoeCool]

I have just a whiteline front ARB on mine.

I don't know if you've got the captive nut off the bracket yet - Same happened to me, I used a cold chisel and a sharp smack with a lump hammer to knock it off the bracket, and then just replaced with a bolt and nut. Been fine ever since. It's no major issue feeding the arb in through the front end, but yo uwill need to remove all trunk plastics and the 'bucket' to get access. And wheels, obviously.

THe holes at the end of the rod are the 'softer' setting - more leverage along the bar = more twisty and less resist-y. That's where mine is set up.

My experience of it isn't a straight upgradea s I also went to coilovers and all new suspension bushes when I fitted it. Steering weight is much heavier and it feels 'dead' about the straight ahead, but livens right up as soon as you're cornering. Because of the kind of driving I do (road and nurburgring basically!) I didn't want the car to over-rotate, so I left the rear ARB alone. I certainly don't have an issue with 'too much' understeer, and the car is very neutral mid corner and balances on the throttle. Any oversteer is clearly communicated and quickly caught. I know that most of the MR2 championship guys either run a stock rear ARB or even remove it all together, so I thought they probably knew waht's up un terms of balance. In reality I ws upping the front ARB in realtion to the incresed spring rate of the coilovers, to try and keep the system proportionately balanced.

Very happy with how my car handles on just the front Whiteline ARB, but would be very interested to know what difference an uprated rear ARB makes. Not an experiement I've got the time to perform for now, sadly!

[thetyrant]

I have just a whiteline front ARB on mine.

I don't know if you've got the captive nut off the bracket yet - Same happened to me, I used a cold chisel and a sharp smack with a lump hammer to knock it off the bracket, and then just replaced with a bolt and nut. Been fine ever since. It's no major issue feeding the arb in through the front end, but yo uwill need to remove all trunk plastics and the 'bucket' to get access. And wheels, obviously.

THe holes at the end of the rod are the 'softer' setting - more leverage along the bar = more twisty and less resist-y. That's where mine is set up.

My experience of it isn't a straight upgradea s I also went to coilovers and all new suspension bushes when I fitted it. Steering weight is much heavier and it feels 'dead' about the straight ahead, but livens right up as soon as you're cornering. Because of the kind of driving I do (road and nurburgring basically!) I didn't want the car to over-rotate, so I left the rear ARB alone. I certainly don't have an issue with 'too much' understeer, and the car is very neutral mid corner and balances on the throttle. Any oversteer is clearly communicated and quickly caught. I know that most of the MR2 championship guys either run a stock rear ARB or even remove it all together, so I thought they probably knew waht's up un terms of balance. In reality I ws upping the front ARB in realtion to the incresed spring rate of the coilovers, to try and keep the system proportionately balanced.

Very happy with how my car handles on just the front Whiteline ARB, but would be very interested to know what difference an uprated rear ARB makes. Not an experiement I've got the time to perform for now, sadly!

Thanks for the info, ive managed to cut/grind off the captive nut on front bracket now as above and have nut and bolt ready to go in so that's sorted thankfully, your strange steering feel will be caused by other things I would think mainly Geo setting as bars only come into play during cornering really and increase overall sprint rate on corner that's loaded.

I think your thinking regards the comment "In reality I ws upping the front ARB in realtion to the incresed spring rate of the coilovers, to try and keep the system proportionately balanced" is flawed though, uprating ARB further increases spring rate and gives damper more work to do, generally uprated ARB is fitted with softer springs to try and increase the overall spring rate while cornering without affecting straightline ride comfort like a uprated spring will.

Im just about to get down into garage and get the bars on and while im pondering just doing front first I think I will fit both and see how it goes, I can always remove rear if I feel its too much.

I would like to increase spring rates rather than fit uprated ARB's as I look at them as fine tuning once dampers/springs are sorted or plaster on a problem in some case, however with the Koni dampers I have im currently limited to stock fitment springs until I get chance to convert to take a stock coilover spring, that's further down the line though and hoping the ARB's give me enough of a spring upgrade without spoiling the balance, is more of a plaster on a problem for me at this point while I decide which direction to go with car

As for the MR2 champ cars they all run the basic (and nots so great!) BC coilovers due to the regs so setup is far from optimal, also being setup for track only plays a big part in it all

[thetyrant]

Ok both bars are on!....inital setting are full stiff front and 1 hole from from softest on rear.

All went ok and was able to wiggle front bar in without removing the frunk etc, I have no AC which apparently makes more room so probably why it went in easy, it was a little tight getting front drop links into the hole for stiffest setting due to the extra bolt I have in bottom of strut to hold Koni insert, once turned steering a little it wasn't a problem though and now its all bolted on there is maybe 3mm gap when car is jacked up and wheels are straight, once onto its wheels there is loads of room.

Time for a test drive.....

[shnazzle]

Ok both bars are on!....inital setting are full stiff front and 1 hole from from softest on rear.

All went ok and was able to wiggle front bar in without removing the frunk etc, I have no AC which apparently makes more room so probably why it went in easy, it was a little tight getting front drop links into the hole for stiffest setting due to the extra bolt I have in bottom of strut to hold Koni insert, once turned steering a little it wasn't a problem though and now its all bolted on there is maybe 3mm gap when car is jacked up and wheels are straight, once onto its wheels there is loads of room.

Time for a test drive.....

.... And?

[Petrus]

.... And?

I´d crack a joke, but he may have cracked the car 

[thetyrant]

Sorry guys only had chance for brief test drive but car feels good so far,  weather turned as i pulled car out and was rain one minute and dry the next so couldn't push much, but from what I did get chance to do balance felt good with reduced body roll as expected.
I left damping on my motorway setting which is +90deg  up from full soft but car still coped well.
Hopefully get out for a proper drive over next few days but so far all is good

Ian