Tyre prices and recommendations? (Oct 2019 Facelift spec)

[The Other Stu]

Yup, particularly when it swapped ends, I was doing under 50 on a "damp" (honestly, that's what it was - not heavy rain) dual carriageway, having just come off a roundabout. I've noticed it twitch a lot too. Even when they're warm. I now have one of those tyre monitors and they tell you not only the pressure, but the temperature.

Had the geo checked last year. Starting to wonder if either something has come loose or these tyres are just underperforming.

[Carolyn]

Yup, particularly when it swapped ends, I was doing under 50 on a "damp" (honestly, that's what it was - not heavy rain) dual carriageway, having just come off a roundabout. I've noticed it twitch a lot too. Even when they're warm. I now have one of those tyre monitors and they tell you not only the pressure, but the temperature.

Had the geo checked last year. Starting to wonder if either something has come loose or these tyres are just underperforming.

Something is definitely out of order in the suspension department.  If you want to bring it here, we can put her up and have a proper poke about, plus we can check the alignment.  Our alignment tool is no laser, but it will show if something is massively out. 

[thetyrant]

I would replace the T1R's to rule that out as they are the worst tyre ive ever used, and there has been a lot over the years/cars!,  closely followed by the old Goodyear F1 GSD3 which like the T1R having a much superior predecessor in the T1S as the F1's previous GSD2 incarnation was a decent tyre, unlike the GSD3 which was like driving on marbles until about half worn, much like the T1R which i started to get one with when about only 3mm of tread left but only in dry as wet weather grip was poor then, glad to get them removed!

Worth getting suspenion checked over as well for function and geo as well to be safe.

[H1GRM]

Not sure I am familiar with all the technical terms.

Tw@. is presumably short for "two stop" as in braking!!!

[james_ly]

My concern isn't so much braking as I find my car brakes well in all weathers, even with T1Rs, it's the propensity to switch ends in the wet and twitch a little too much that scares the life out of me.

I clearly don't have much talent, so I need some help.

Best tyres I've ever had were the OEM spec Bridgestone. Shame they no longer make them,

Bloody awful the T1Rs, mine have improved as I've worn them down but I'd take the Bridgestones anyday.

[tricky1138]

I'll add my tuppence to the discussion!

I loved my Bridgestones and agree that I wish they still did them! I'm sure there are newer better tyres out there, but used them in all weathers and even in snow, when well worn!

On Carolyns recommendation, I now have NS20s on and while I havent driven in anger they do grip well and I'm sure they will be just as good as the Bridgestones. They do have a softer sidewall, so need a couple of extra PSI in to compensate.

I can also verify now, that they are good in the wet, and with standing water, as I had to drive in torrential rain on Saturday. They never put a foot wrong, unless you were really stupid and floored it out of a junction to test them - yes they did loose grip, but was only for a moment and perfectly controllable.

Happy with them and for the price - cant argue with them. I got them in 195/50/15 and 225/45/16 sizes.

[Johnny5]

Hi All,
Regarding the car swapping ends, I honestly think that has more to do with the LSD as anything else.  My MR2 is the only car I've ever owned that has one.  Even my 130i manual and E36 328i manual didn't have one; just electronic traction control.  My 328i wouldn't step out at all, even if provoked, even in the wet with the traction turned off.  Seriously, you'd have to drive it like you stole it before it would get sideways.  The 130i, with a shorter wheelbase and even more power (265 hp), would step out a little, but only if provoked.

My 2 is the least powerful car I've owned in many a year, but the most back endy by far, especially pulling out enthusiastically in first gear these last few colder wet mornings.  What's the difference? Many would blame the mid mounted engine in 2.  But the 130i and 328i had 50/50 weight distributions, or thereabouts, and the 2's 58/42 split isn't that much different to that in the big scheme of things.

I think that feeling the 2 gives that it's always threatening to swap ends in the wet if pushed, comes from the LSD.  LSDs are known to accentuate oversteer, as they enable continued forward progress when grip limits on one wheel have been reached.  I'm on AD08Rs at mo, but my "winter" tyres (actually all season Vredesteins), oversteer just the same in cold, wet conditions.

[Carolyn]

I do drive in a 'spirited' manner on our local B roads.  I never feel that my car wants to swap ends. Unless the tyres are close to worn out.  Got to be on the right rubber though.

Personally I do think 225 is too wide for the rear of this car btw.

[Ardent]

The key word for me here is "damp"

Give me full fat, solid, in yer face wet, over "damp" any day.

For damp, read "greasy"
Even so, I'm on rears, that are long past their best. But never feel it want's to swap ends.

[1979scotte]

I do drive in a 'spirited' manner on our local B roads.  I never feel that my car wants to swap ends. Unless the tyres are close to worn out.  Got to be on the right rubber though.

Personally I do think 225 is too wide for the rear of this car btw.

Agreed

[1979scotte]

Please listen.

IF YOUR 2 FEELS LIKE IT'S TRYING TO SWAP ENDS EITHER SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH IT OR YOU ARE NOT DRIVING CORRECTLY FOR THE MID ENGINE LAYOUT.

Weight distribution is not the same has having the weight in the centre of the wheel base.

I drive in all weather's.
I've driven on pfl and FL wheels.
All my 2s have had a minium of 80bhp over stock.
All my 2s are maintained to a high standard with excellent quality tyres and new suspension.

The only times I have had issues is when I've had poor tyres. Wrong pressure. Broken subframe. Suspension out of alignment. Run out of talent.

I'm currently driving on 205 rear ado8r with 257 ftlbs torque at the wheels more than double the 1zz makes and I'm not dead yet.

[H1GRM]

Coming at this from a different perspective, is it not all about common sense?

Know your car and it's set up, tyres etc.

Understand your own abilities.

Take the weather (inc temp) into consideration.

Enjoy!!

[Petrus]

Hi All,
Regarding the car swapping ends, I honestly think that has more to do with the LSD as anything else.  My MR2 is the only car I've ever owned that has one.  Even my 130i manual and E36 328i manual didn't have one; just electronic traction control.  My 328i wouldn't step out at all, even if provoked, even in the wet with the traction turned off.  Seriously, you'd have to drive it like you stole it before it would get sideways.  The 130i, with a shorter wheelbase and even more power (265 hp), would step out a little, but only if provoked.

My 2 is the least powerful car I've owned in many a year, but the most back endy by far, especially pulling out enthusiastically in first gear these last few colder wet mornings.  What's the difference? Many would blame the mid mounted engine in 2.  But the 130i and 328i had 50/50 weight distributions, or thereabouts, and the 2's 58/42 split isn't that much different to that in the big scheme of things.

I think that feeling the 2 gives that it's always threatening to swap ends in the wet if pushed, comes from the LSD.  LSDs are known to accentuate oversteer, as they enable continued forward progress when grip limits on one wheel have been reached.  I'm on AD08Rs at mo, but my "winter" tyres (actually all season Vredesteins), oversteer just the same in cold, wet conditions.

The weight distribution you refer to and engine location is a ´bit´ more complicated that just that.
The mid engine concept greatests impacts are on the distance of the mass to the centre of gravity while at the seme time having more weight on the rear.

The concept is léss not more prone to swapping ends because of the increased traction at the rear.
Because of the mass being closer to the cog, the momentum is smaller, meaning the car changes direction quicker. This also means that when oversteering, this is livelier.
So while the tencency to oversteer is way is less, it needs quicker driver response.

On the Spyder Toyota did a réally god job in retaining the benefits and making the inherent driver demands less by making the wheelbase as long as possible and set the steering geometry up for initial understeer.
It is about as driver friendly as a lightweight mid engine car gets.

Yes, there are some ´shortcomings´ like the electric power steering and the seats* but that is nit picking and unavoidable user friendlyness for a runabout car.
Again, the MR2 Spyder/Roadster is a véry driver friendly mid engined car.

* the power steering means that the feedback about what the car is doing is less direct so you are just that bit slower on the ball and response also are easily overreacting.
The limited side support of the seats means that it is more challenging to only steer and not partly ´hold on´ to the steering wheel resulting in the driver giving unwanted steering imput which is compounded by the power steering.
Take note that this is nit picking and nót an issue untill you really start pushing the limits of the car.

[Petrus]

Coming at this from a different perspective, is it not all about common sense?

Know your car and it's set up, tyres etc.

Understand your own abilities.

Take the weather (inc temp) into consideration.

Enjoy!!

+ a BIG one!


Our MR2 is a very driver friendly car but if you give it enough stick for the rear to become unstuck you need respond timely and measured; more so than most front engined cars, less so than most mid engined cars.

I like it a lot because it is a proper handling mid engined car which is driver friendly for public road use. It is not as razor sharp handling/steering as an Elise for good reason as you can cut yourself very easily too with razor sharp.

Living in the mountains of souther spain I have 300 sunny days / year but it does rain and there are four months of near/sub zero mornings. The solution is not the car or tyres. It´s me.

[1979scotte]

Coming at this from a different perspective, is it not all about common sense?

Know your car and it's set up, tyres etc.

Understand your own abilities.

Take the weather (inc temp) into consideration.

Enjoy!!

+ a BIG one!


Our MR2 is a very driver friendly car but if you give it enough stick for the rear to become unstuck you need respond timely and measured; more so than most front engined cars, less so than most mid engined cars.

I like it a lot because it is a proper handling mid engined car which is driver friendly for public road use. It is not as razor sharp handling/steering as an Elise for good reason as you can cut yourself very easily too with razor sharp.

Living in the mountains of souther spain I have 300 sunny days / year but it does rain and there are four months of near/sub zero mornings. The solution is not the car or tyres. It´s me.

I don't think I've ever agreed with one of your comments more than the last 2.

[H1GRM]

Coming at this from a different perspective, is it not all about common sense?

Know your car and it's set up, tyres etc.

Understand your own abilities.

Take the weather (inc temp) into consideration.

Enjoy!!

+ a BIG one!


Our MR2 is a very driver friendly car but if you give it enough stick for the rear to become unstuck you need respond timely and measured; more so than most front engined cars, less so than most mid engined cars.

I like it a lot because it is a proper handling mid engined car which is driver friendly for public road use. It is not as razor sharp handling/steering as an Elise for good reason as you can cut yourself very easily too with razor sharp.

Living in the mountains of souther spain I have 300 sunny days / year but it does rain and there are four months of near/sub zero mornings. The solution is not the car or tyres. It´s me.

Yep totally agree with this.

Most fun and easiest to slide and control was my "Seven" because you are nearly seated over the rear axle and you feel everything. Apply less power and the slide starts to correct apply more power and it just steps out a little more. So progressive but even less practical than a "2".

Bringing this back to tyres I seem to remember I had Yoko's on the 7.

[Ardent]

Hi All,
Regarding the car swapping ends, I honestly think that has more to do with the LSD as anything else.  My MR2 is the only car I've ever owned that has one.  Even my 130i manual and E36 328i manual didn't have one; just electronic traction control.  My 328i wouldn't step out at all, even if provoked, even in the wet with the traction turned off.  Seriously, you'd have to drive it like you stole it before it would get sideways.  The 130i, with a shorter wheelbase and even more power (265 hp), would step out a little, but only if provoked.

My 2 is the least powerful car I've owned in many a year, but the most back endy by far, especially pulling out enthusiastically in first gear these last few colder wet mornings.  What's the difference? Many would blame the mid mounted engine in 2.  But the 130i and 328i had 50/50 weight distributions, or thereabouts, and the 2's 58/42 split isn't that much different to that in the big scheme of things.

I think that feeling the 2 gives that it's always threatening to swap ends in the wet if pushed, comes from the LSD.  LSDs are known to accentuate oversteer, as they enable continued forward progress when grip limits on one wheel have been reached.  I'm on AD08Rs at mo, but my "winter" tyres (actually all season Vredesteins), oversteer just the same in cold, wet conditions.

My issue with the above is, why aren't all the other LSD  cars reporting the same thing?
Whatever it is, I think the LSD  is a red herring.

[shnazzle]

As explained to me my ChrisGB, who I think we can all agree is a "rather seasoned driver" , the Torsen LSD can give the impression of an unstable back end while it does what it does on a straight line. You'd normally never feel this. But in an mr2, you feel all. 
The worst thing to do is to try and correct it. Loosen grip on the steering wheel and let the LSD do its thing.

And yes, 225 is too wide for damp/wet conditions. And Yokohama AD08Rs are not suitable for UK weather after September. And -2deg camber isn't great for all conditions. Yet I have all of those, because in the warm/dry... Oh my..
But after September time. It's slow and steady for me. 
As per Petrus' comment; drive to your setup and conditions. You're on your own, there are no electronic aids.

Also; weight distribution is a funny thing. Weight distribution at standstill is very different to under various loads. Yes at standstill the weight is quite well-distributed. But if I throw the mr2 around a corner, you better believe that rear end has some momentum to it by way of the fact that steering is in the front

[Petrus]

Also; weight distribution is a funny thing. Weight distribution at standstill is very different to under various loads. Yes at standstill the weight is quite well-distributed. But if I throw the mr2 around a corner, you better believe that rear end has some momentum to it by way of the fact that steering is in the front

The rear is relatively heavier than the front but still not heavy and the relative extra weight adds móre grip. Because the car is light, thus the rear light, the rubber has the max grip it can offer; no load sensitivity in play.
Mine is a PFL on OEM size wubbah, so 205 rear and imo is spot on.
The rear being light also means that any sideways movement is easy to correct. You just need to be on the ball and NÓT overcorrect. The long wet!! drift video here on the forum is a purrrrr-fect example.


Btw, the weight distribution on the Lotus Elise is 38/62.

[BahnStormer]

Hi, I'm a Newbie who has recently bought a set of FL alloys. I got some advice after my post on running 205/40 r17 all round, which the car came with. So I need to buy tyres over the winter. I am finding this tricky- so many opinions!
My use is perhaps 1500 mostly dry B road miles per year. I found the Toyo  TR1's on demon tweeks. Available sizes seem to be front 195/55 15 85v and rear 225/45 16 93w xl. Opinions welcome please on this choice and sizes.
Should I be concerned with the difference in load rating?

I wouldn't get too excited about load rating, but you're going wider on all your tyres.... more grip, but heavier and less fun: OEM should be 185/55R15 and 215/45R16 - probably cheaper and keep the car fun and lively

[BahnStormer]

I'm always interested to read that people find the AD08R to be dangerous in the winter.

I know @BahnStormer uses his to commute so is up early on cold wet roads but I've never really had an issue unless it was raining cats and dogs.

Obviously we both live down south I wouldn't recommend them year round to those in more northern areas.

Yes - my use-case is different from most MR2 owners - I was doing high mileage B road commuting, incl mostly ungritted country lanes often <6am and >9pm... so I'd often be scraping ice off my windows before each leg of my commute.

AD08R's are fine in summer rain - it's the cold that made me nervous: "Not so much dangerous in the wet"... as "glassy in the cold".... it is a complete novelty to 1ZZ owners to be able to snake the back of the car out with even a modest prod of the accelerator out of every junction, but the novelty wears off pretty fast it's a fairly uncontrolled slide and probably shredding some fairly expensive (brittle) tyres that are more at home in the warm... essentially if you're scraping your windscreen before you drive, you're driving VERY carefully on AD08R's.

My advice: £100-£250 for a set of spare OEM rims and get a set of tyres for each use-case

To be clear - I'm not afraid of the cold / wet in my MR2 - I just prefer to give my care the right contact for the surface: I've done plenty of those commutes on solid-packed ice and snow, while zig-zagging around stupid summer tyre shod Range Rovers...

[MannyUK]

You could always remove the rear antisway bar in winter to make it softer.

[james_ly]

it is a complete novelty to 1ZZ owners to be able to snake the back of the car out with even a modest prod of the accelerator out of every junction, but the novelty wears off pretty fast

Not for me

[BahnStormer]

it is a complete novelty to 1ZZ owners to be able to snake the back of the car out with even a modest prod of the accelerator out of every junction, but the novelty wears off pretty fast

Not for me

I'm not talking about where the "danger" is that you'll get thrown off a run-wot-u-brung trackday at Silverstone for drifting every corner (again).... I'm talking about glassy slides into taffic where you're just hoping the gravel on the shoulder will help you catch the slide, 'cos no amount of skill will help if your tyres are behaving like they're on pure ice... same junctions, even heavier acceleration and the Conti winter tyres behave perfectly!

[BahnStormer]

Yup, particularly when it swapped ends, I was doing under 50 on a "damp" (honestly, that's what it was - not heavy rain) dual carriageway, having just come off a roundabout. I've noticed it twitch a lot too. Even when they're warm. I now have one of those tyre monitors and they tell you not only the pressure, but the temperature.

Had the geo checked last year. Starting to wonder if either something has come loose or these tyres are just underperforming.

Just an observation - but most of those tyre monitors add asymmetric, unsprung weight, so I've always been really wary of them... I assume you have the "behind the valve" variety and the wheels were re-balanced afterwards?