Forced induction; the aternative

[MR2Bart1991]

Goh this info from the their website.

There are several methods to control the  TORQAMP. Either one mounts the included hard switch below the gas pedal to simply switch the  TORQAMP on and off. Alternatively,  two wires from Throttle Position Sensor or Drive by wire pedal can be connected to the open-source Control Box in which one can set the percentage of throttle to a percentage of boost. When using an open ECU, one can also program a boost map and give an PWM signal into our open-source Control Box. Finally we also developed boost control with which one can measure the pressure in the intake manifold. In combination with turbo chargers and or superchargers the boost is now based on the pressure built up from the turbo or supercharger.

Also pricing with vat(btw-tax included) are around 2700€ now. (Used to be 3500€ at the start)

[Topdownman]

I am watching this with interest as I hope that someone is going to give it a go!

It sounds like it should work for a certain style of driving?

It did put me in mind of this old test on 5th gear though, I know they are completely different systems but if your battery does run out, then you are just carrying extra weight until it catch's up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0ZCac4JX_A

[shnazzle]

Not to mention it is still a LOT of money for a little boost every now and then.

[Petrus]

Not to mention it is still a LOT of money for a little boost every now and then.

My point.
NOS does the same for less money and a simpler install.

The problem I see with the MR install is the OEM ECU.
The turbo should be installed between MAF and TB and a piggy back programmed. A serious extra expense.

A not highlighted secondary issue is that the turbo will hamper breathing when not operating. With the turbo inoperative the engine is n.a. sucking through the impellor, dríving the impellor to get the air in.
The install needs to be so that the turbo blows at least at ambient pressure, otherwise it is a step báckwards for 99% of the time. What?!, TWÓ steps backwards as you will be hauling the xtra kilos too.

Apart from the doubtful safety of a pressurised gas bottle in the car, NOS is a better proposition.

Now I ám willing and cán swing the expense but with all supercharging options having serious down sides, adding lightness remains my objective.
If Ivo´s initiative falls flat, will make an effort to will local resources. A bloke I know in Granada makes carbon stuff for a mainstream bicycle brand and the glass fitter in the village has responded neutrally about a polycarbonate windhield.
As Jason stated, weight reduction is like compound interest in your favor whereas adding hp is hampered by deminishing returns.

[MR2Bart1991]

Not to mention it is still a LOT of money for a little boost every now and then.

Well, yeah it definitely is expensive at this time but it's pretty new and will go down in price stil after some years, but well so was the TTE Turbo kit it also did not increase power that much and costed double the amount of the Torqueamp in my opinion a boost time of 4 min (max) is enough for the street, you will hardly ever run out of boost in just spirited driving, though constantly trashing it probably will eventually.

I also know of no other options at this moment with this kind of power increase that is priced the same (new) if you want to go for high power one day, then this is not the kit, but you could still combine it with a turbo for instant power without lag if you really wanted to.

[MR2Bart1991]

Not to mention it is still a LOT of money for a little boost every now and then.

My point.
NOS does the same for less money and a simpler install.

The problem I see with the MR install is the OEM ECU.
The turbo should be installed between MAF and TB and a piggy back programmed. A serious extra expense.

A not highlighted secondary issue is that the turbo will hamper breathing when not operating. With the turbo inoperative the engine is n.a. sucking through the impellor, dríving the impellor to get the air in.
The install needs to be so that the turbo blows at least at ambient pressure, otherwise it is a step báckwards for 99% of the time. What?!, TWÓ steps backwards as you will be hauling the xtra kilos too.

Apart from the doubtful safety of a pressurised gas bottle in the car, NOS is a better proposition.

Now I ám willing and cán swing the expense but with all supercharging options having serious down sides, adding lightness remains my objective.
If Ivo´s initiative falls flat, will make an effort to will local resources. A bloke I know in Granada makes carbon stuff for a mainstream bicycle brand and the glass fitter in the village has responded neutrally about a polycarbonate windhield.
As Jason stated, weight reduction is like compound interest in your favor whereas adding hp is hampered by deminishing returns.

They actually have a solution for this already though with something like a bypass, but even than you only lose power on the top end of the power band and only if the turbo is not operative.

[Petrus]

So go for it MrBart and let us know.

[MR2Bart1991]

So go for it MrBart and let us know.

sure i've been really thinking about it honestly, but i try to do alot of research before i spend this amount of money on something but if i actually do this i will definetly report it here even if alot of people dont see the benefit of this kit i still find it interesting just to have more options for this platform.

[Topdownman]

So go for it MrBart and let us know.

sure i've been really thinking about it honestly, but i try to do alot of research before i spend this amount of money on something but if i actually do this i will definetly report it here even if alot of people dont see the benefit of this kit i still find it interesting just to have more options for this platform.

I was getting the sense that you were interested!

I would contact the company once lockdown is over to say you are interested but would need to experience it and then see if they have some sort of demonstrator etc. Then its just a case of a nice family outing to Holland. Even if you dont go for it, would be fun. Small companies do have the ability to do deals though and a project into an MR2 might generate more interest in their product so you may be able to haggle a deal?

[shnazzle]

Just watched the clip again and I had forgotten the boost it provides. It's actually quite impressive.

Was thinking that even the emanage blue I've got would be sufficient if I installed a greddy MAP sensor as well to manage the system in boost.

So if we take the approach of installing it after the MAF, then it would run full stock (albeit with a slight intake restriction until the impeller spins up) when off boost, and then on positive boost pressure it would basically run off the piggyback and MAP.
12v trigger to turn it on, can be done via the VTEC signal,with a relay in between triggered by available charge.
That way it's completely automatic, you can can set when you want it to trigger and it would only turn on if you had the charge.
Don't really see the need for boost control with 3psi tbh.

[MR2Bart1991]

So my brother bought one for his Lotus Exige R he's combining it with a turbo, however we are gonna test it on both the 1zz and 2zz first so we have some information to show for both platforms we will have to wait for at least 16-22 weeks though as it seems Torqueamps have been selling really well, i hope it's a good contribution to our platform.

[Petrus]

Beejeeezusss 16 - 22 weeks!!! That´ll be autumn! Better install NOS for the summer and sell it on by then ;-)

[MR2Bart1991]

Beejeeezusss 16 - 22 weeks!!! That´ll be autumn! Better install NOS for the summer and sell it on by then ;-)

Yeah didn't expect that either but they said it would probably ship faster than that.. and nah im to lazy to refill nos rather have a kers like setup. Anyway testing something new that works on our cars is never a bad thing.

[Petrus]

I think Patrick mentioned a very real possibility: This system has a relatively low boost and it is most likely that the OEM ECU can sort the needs of the carburation.
Simply replace the rubber tube between MAF and throttle body with one incorporating the torqe amp.

I think it is an extremely elegant solution almost tailor made for the modest extra power needs of the ZZW30 on the road.

Imo the cux to practicality is to sort the gradual feel to the e-turbo; that it is always on and supporting the need of the engine, only chárging progressively from say 75% throttle opening. A pot meter under the pedal would do.

The alternator is rather overdimentioned and should be able to keep up. Just stay off the rear window heater and don´t install heated seats or boom boxes :-)

[jvanzyl]

Look forward to seeing the results you get in 6 months time.. can we set a timer on this site??
Having looked at the site, and seen the IS200 results I'm guessing that you'll get roughly 30-35 extra at the wheels and your torque will jump like 20lbs up till about 4500-5000 rpm..

Certainly be interesting to understand the limiting factors with the technology.. just need old dyson to get in on the act!

[MR2Bart1991]

Look forward to seeing the results you get in 6 months time.. can we set a timer on this site??
Having looked at the site, and seen the IS200 results I'm guessing that you'll get roughly 30-35 extra at the wheels and your torque will jump like 20lbs up till about 4500-5000 rpm..

Certainly be interesting to understand the limiting factors with the technology.. just need old dyson to get in on the act!

Yeah i do hope it gets here sooner but looking at dyno's from their site im expecting around 180 BHP and 170-180ftlb

[Petrus]

You will need yellow injectors for that. Not the most elegant to rely on the O2 loop for the ECU to correct but it works. The MAF mod. relies on it too without a glitch.

[MR2Bart1991]

You will need yellow injectors for that. Not the most elegant to rely on the O2 loop for the ECU to correct but it works. The MAF mod. relies on it too without a glitch.

I actually have a maf mod kit lying around here but just not installed it yet, so you recommend installing just the yellow injectors in combination with the torqueamp and let the maf compensate? (As a test)

[Petrus]

You will need yellow injectors for that. Not the most elegant to rely on the O2 loop for the ECU to correct but it works. The MAF mod. relies on it too without a glitch.

I actually have a maf mod kit lying around here but just not installed it yet, so you recommend installing just the yellow injectors in combination with the torqueamp and let the maf compensate?

No.
I do recommend fitting it untill you get it, but best take the spacer out and the vanes back when you fit the e-turbo.
If you have freed up the exhaust already do add the ´funnel´ elbow btw. Cheap, easy and effective. It is the TRD intake mod taken one step up ;-)

[thetyrant]

A word of caution, I would 100% not be running any kind of forced induction on the stock ECU without some kind of ignition timing control, high compression ratio of these engines along with aggressive n/a ignition timing maps means you would be relying on the weedy factory knock sensor to try and keep engine together, it can only do so much and its  not what its designed to cope with.

Interesting on the leadtime, its probably as i suspected they are not really geared up to supply these to market and most likely building to order which is fine, they probably got a shock someone ordered one lol

Good luck with it an hope it works outs, its a good idea i just dont think the tech is there yet.

[MR2Bart1991]

A word of caution, I would 100% not be running any kind of forced induction on the stock ECU without some kind of ignition timing control, high compression ratio of these engines along with aggressive n/a ignition timing maps means you would be relying on the weedy factory knock sensor to try and keep engine together, it can only do so much and its  not what its designed to cope with.

Interesting on the leadtime, its probably as i suspected they are not really geared up to supply these to market and most likely building to order which is fine, they probably got a shock someone ordered one lol

Good luck with it an hope it works outs, its a good idea i just dont think the tech is there yet.

Yeah we were definetly planning to tune it but a kit like this "phantom electric charger" also worked on the stock frs/brz/gt86 ecu without tuning and well there was suprisingly alot of interest in that kit also on the ft86forum(i had a gt86) every kit that was made was inmediatly sold out.. that was the USA market though and the Torqueamp is more Professionaly made by a bussiness while the "ESC" was started somewhat as a hobby..

I followed the progress of that Esc from the start and while there definetly was still alot of improvements to be made for it to be optimal, still was pretty impressive for what it is.. alot of people first thought of it as snake oil because of all the ebay fake electric chargers so it had to prove itself alot against non believers(still the same with the Torqueamp)

Most people bought it though for the ease of install as it needs no intercooler and fits every car without a problem so you can put it on all the cars you have or will have.

It works on alot of stock ecus (with maf) but tuning it is always recommended) for me it's also not about what's best or cheapest for me but these "new tech" things really interest me. And i can always easily just turbo the car like everyone else if this thing does not satisfie me

[thetyrant]

Working and working safely in the longterm is another matter remember, also the BRZ/GT86 has a lot more tech in the ECU and knock sensor department, as ive seen when tuning my Cosworth Supercharged car with EcuTek software, this would give much more headroom in safety if fitting something like the Torqamp on a otherwise bone stock car, compared to say the MR2 much more primitive system.

I imagine if only triggered at high revs/full throttle it wouldnt be crazy risky but would need monitoring to be sure, however bringing it in at lower revs to boost overtaking etc (which would be nice time to have it!)  would 100% need a tune and work on ignition and fuelling to keep engine together imo.

Look forward to your findings though

[MR2Bart1991]

Working and working safely in the longterm is another matter remember, also the BRZ/GT86 has a lot more tech in the ECU and knock sensor department, as ive seen when tuning my Cosworth Supercharged car with EcuTek software, this would give much more headroom in safety if fitting something like the Torqamp on a otherwise bone stock car, compared to say the MR2 much more primitive system.

I imagine if only triggered at high revs/full throttle it wouldnt be crazy risky but would need monitoring to be sure, however bringing it in at lower revs to boost overtaking etc (which would be nice time to have it!)  would 100% need a tune and work on ignition and fuelling to keep engine together imo.

Look forward to your findings though

You're right about that i'm definetly not planning to run it long term on stock ecu just more like a test "if it would work with stock ecu" would a higher octane fuel and bigger injectors help for a "safer" run?

[shnazzle]

There's ways and means. Have a look at @spit who has been running his turbo on stock ECU for over 100k miles. I think his car is possibly the longest running turbo car out there. 
Original mr-s I believe. 

That stock ECU is a beast. And that knock sensor and the processing of it in the stock ECU is mint. 

Hence I say, I'd be comfortable running this with no more than some slight timing and fueling adjustment on a piggyback

[thetyrant]

There's ways and means. Have a look at @spit who has been running his turbo on stock ECU for over 100k miles. I think his car is possibly the longest running turbo car out there.
Original mr-s I believe.

That stock ECU is a beast. And that knock sensor and the processing of it in the stock ECU is mint.

Hence I say, I'd be comfortable running this with no more than some slight timing and fueling adjustment on a piggyback

Interesting info but personally i wouldnt want too unless i had to, then i guess without trying you dont know and it would be interesting to have a play providing i had wideband for monitoring afr and det cans for knock to see and listen to what happened, i spent a lot of time tuning my old supercharged mazda mx on an emanage blue and to a point it was great and easy but after a point you were always fighting the stock ecu, which was not fun and not very consistent for the tune.