Zero Exhausts sports cat

[shnazzle]

Bernie's was dyno tested at the various stages and highlighted the possible gains per component.

From Robs extensive receipts and invoices after each mod car was Dyno'd


148 BHP
Exhaust & Sports Cat

157 BHP
Apexi ECU
Crower Cams

167 BHP
Zero Manifold

171 BHP PPE Induction

That doesn't help as still don't know if it was the cat or the exhaust  

But, many accounts have noted a change in performance after swapping cat. No counts of performance for swapping just exhaust.
There are so many cars that have increased power output with the TTE. It would be interesting to see where the boundary is. 
I'd like to think at about 200hp because take Matt's SP turbo system for example. To get from 200 to the SP240 he added the high-flow exhaust.
Same with 2zz. Lots have TTE with 2zz,so it's clearly good with no notable restriction to 190 (which they never run anyway).

Anywya... Would be good to see what Zero + Zero cat makes

[Petrus]

From Robs extensive receipts and invoices after each mod car was Dyno'd


148 BHP
Exhaust & Sports Cat

157 BHP
Apexi ECU
Crower Cams

167 BHP
Zero Manifold

171 BHP PPE Induction

So with header, de-/sports cat and free flow muffler it would probably be some 155+ bhp.

Did you try the MAF mod too in some stage? or do I remember that incorrectly?

[Petrus]

No counts of performance for swapping just exhaust.

I did the decat ´Che´ clone header first, than the muffler, the decat pipe last.

No added power worth mentioning from just the header.
Muffler made the engine rev quicker from some 5K.
Decat made the engine stronger all over the range and rev quicker still.

No dyno méasurements.

[Bernie]

From Robs extensive receipts and invoices after each mod car was Dyno'd


148 BHP
Exhaust & Sports Cat

157 BHP
Apexi ECU
Crower Cams

167 BHP
Zero Manifold

171 BHP PPE Induction

So with header, de-/sports cat and free flow muffler it would probably be some 155+ bhp.

Did you try the MAF mod too in some stage? or do I remember that incorrectly?

No MAF mod carried out

[Petrus]

Did you try the MAF mod too in some stage? or do I remember that incorrectly?

No MAF mod carried out

Thank you.

Then it was another owner who first tried the MAF mod and later also a cam change.

[Call the midlife!]

At the end of the day without pre and post mod dynoes it's all subjective anyway.
Bum dyno proves nothing.
I know what my last dyno readout was but can't say what the actual gains were as I didn't have a pre mods dyno.
The law of averages suggests I probably had no more than 120bhp before starting with an 18 year old, worn motor. On that assumption I maybe added 30bhp with the work I did but that's also suspect as it was blowing oil out of the OCV filter housing on the dyno so possibly not reaching peak performance.
The mid range performance gains are enough for me to consider it worth the effort, at some point in the future there'll be an exhaust change and another visit to Greggs. (Not for meat pies)

[Petrus]

At the end of the day without pre and post mod dynoes it's all subjective anyway.
Bum dyno proves nothing.

Use the virtual thing app on the mobile but that too uses the same thing as the bum; acelleration and acc. differences.
A bit more objective and as such accurate but for comparative purposes on the same car, same circumstances only.

Also correct about the before and after of dyno measurements.

The up side is that the power side of things is not the crux of our MR :-)
It even has a hard measurable up side: The nimbleness; the weight, is easily objectively ascertained.

[MR2Bart1991]

Well i just want to know how a full zero setup, header + zero sportcat would compared to something like the PPE or MWR combo as these 3 setups are the best options for the 1zz at this moment as far a i know, i know peak power won't really increase that much n/a but really curious for the full powerband difference.

[shnazzle]

Well i just want to know how a full zero setup, header + zero sportcat would compared to something like the PPE or MWR combo as these 3 setups are the best options for the 1zz at this moment as far a i know, i know peak power won't really increase that much n/a but really curious for the full powerband difference.

Definitely interesting. The Zero isn't 100% equal length, whereas the PPE is from what I can see. And the PPE has much more narrow runners and waaaayyy longer.


The MWR (CHE), ToyoSport, Hamish, etc etc are all just copies of thr stock manifold minus the pre-cats so I wouldn't expect any gains aside from the gains of not having the pre-cat Chambers, if that makes sense. Hence why nobody ever really feels that much difference. The restriction is removed but the "flow" is the same. Just more of it. 

The Zero and PPE are "tuned" manifolds. In other words, they offer benefits other than just the benefits of not having the pre-cat chambers. They change the way the engine breathes.

We need a dyno day is what we need... 
Best would be a couple of dyno days with two or three cars, each going through a series of mods. Very time-consuming.

[MR2Bart1991]

Well i just want to know how a full zero setup, header + zero sportcat would compared to something like the PPE or MWR combo as these 3 setups are the best options for the 1zz at this moment as far a i know, i know peak power won't really increase that much n/a but really curious for the full powerband difference.

Definitely interesting. The Zero isn't 100% equal length, whereas the PPE is from what I can see. And the PPE has much more narrow runners and waaaayyy longer.


The MWR (CHE), ToyoSport, Hamish, etc etc are all just copies of thr stock manifold minus the pre-cats so I wouldn't expect any gains aside from the gains of not having the pre-cat Chambers, if that makes sense. Hence why nobody ever really feels that much difference. The restriction is removed but the "flow" is the same. Just more of it.

The Zero and PPE are "tuned" manifolds. In other words, they offer benefits other than just the benefits of not having the pre-cat chambers. They change the way the engine breathes.

We need a dyno day is what we need...
Best would be a couple of dyno days with two or three cars, each going through a series of mods. Very time-consuming.

I agree with everything you say, but the new MWR combo is more of a PPE copy now though
this is how the MWR combo looks now.

[shnazzle]

Well i just want to know how a full zero setup, header + zero sportcat would compared to something like the PPE or MWR combo as these 3 setups are the best options for the 1zz at this moment as far a i know, i know peak power won't really increase that much n/a but really curious for the full powerband difference.

Definitely interesting. The Zero isn't 100% equal length, whereas the PPE is from what I can see. And the PPE has much more narrow runners and waaaayyy longer.


The MWR (CHE), ToyoSport, Hamish, etc etc are all just copies of thr stock manifold minus the pre-cats so I wouldn't expect any gains aside from the gains of not having the pre-cat Chambers, if that makes sense. Hence why nobody ever really feels that much difference. The restriction is removed but the "flow" is the same. Just more of it.

The Zero and PPE are "tuned" manifolds. In other words, they offer benefits other than just the benefits of not having the pre-cat chambers. They change the way the engine breathes.

We need a dyno day is what we need...
Best would be a couple of dyno days with two or three cars, each going through a series of mods. Very time-consuming.

I agree with everything you say, but the new MWR combo is more of a PPE copy now though
this is how the MWR combo looks now.

Eh? MWR made a copy or tye PPE?

[MR2Bart1991]

They are selling both on their site right now yeah and looks like a copy to me.

[shnazzle]

They are selling both on their site right now yeah and looks like a copy to me.

Well jeez. 

I'm starting to feel like a dinosaur on this forum. Things are changing quicker than I can keep up

[Petrus]

The MWR (CHE), ToyoSport, Hamish, etc etc are all just copies of thr stock manifold minus the pre-cats so I wouldn't expect any gains aside from the gains of not having the pre-cat Chambers, if that makes sense. Hence why nobody ever really feels that much difference. The restriction is removed but the "flow" is the same. Just more of it.

The Zero and PPE are "tuned" manifolds. In other words, they offer benefits other than just the benefits of not having the pre-cat chambers. They change the way the engine breathes.

The crux is in understanding what ´tuning´ means. It means that the lengths of the runners and the way they collect in such a way that the pressure waves arrive at the exhaust valve at the moment that they assist in  max filing of the combustion chamber.
This can be through the scavenging effect of a negative wave or the pushing back through a positive wave.
This occurs only at specific revs as only at those the travel time of the waves coincide with the valve timing.
The down side is that the wave also arrives in the wrong phase at the wrong moment.
I.e. tuning the harmonics very much like a musical instrument.

Equal length 4-1 has all the cilinders bounce at the same time, maximising the + and - pressure.
4-2-1 doubles the frequency at half the pressure of 4-1.

Now the last aspect is the interference of the positive and negatives of the wave itself. That too is tuned by the lengt of the runners.
The shorter the runners the higher the frequency of the bouncing as the length the waves travel is shorter but there can be only very limited interferencing.
The longer the higher the amplitude can get but the frequency obviously goes down.

Unequal length primaries in a 4-2-1 can be deliberately tuned as well. It will again smoothe the effect over a broader rev range.

The ham question is ´tuned for whát?´ The extemes beingmore but  ´peaky´  and  less but ´wide´.

The OEM runner design is tuned too. You can safely assume that this is by far the most researched tuning of all on the market.
The runners are designed to give the broadest power band. It´s scavenging/loading effects are such that they have the least negavive effect and thus also lower positive effects.
Copying of the same design sans precat is a safe approach.

Collector design is paramount too as it determains how and how strong the wave bounces but that is just mudding the water in this case.
Suffices to say that the dedicated designs of PPE and Zero are superior. The effect is stronger; the positive and negative more pronounced.
This is where copies often miss the plot. Not all copies are the same and it pays to have a good look there.

With OEM cat the effect of a better manifold will be less than with a sports cat or decat.

If the Zero manifold would have been easily available at the time, I would have gone for it as I planned to go free breathing. As it is I have a Che clone with the positive side effect being the widest/flattest possible torque hump.

All in all ´tuned´ means that you can choose your poison.

[Petrus]

....and now we can throw wrapping the runners into the equasion.

The speed of the pressure waves increases with increase in gas temp. = affects the tuning of the header.
Ergo wrapping affects the tune.

[Ardent]

Well jeez.
I'm starting to feel like a dinosaur on this forum. Things are changing quicker than I can keep up

Welcome to my world.

[MR2Bart1991]

New Zero sport cat is assembled in my car now. Together with bigger and lighter alternator pulley. I have to say, it is really amazing. Car is much, much stronger, much more that I expected. My mechanic was also schocked. With Zero header it was mosty louder, with a little effect on performance but now I can feel much more power. Pricy, but worth every penny, I really recommend it.


My exhaust: Zero header + cat, TTE muffler.

got a sound clip of your combo by any chance?

[Bugster_MR2]

Installed my Zero cat today. Bolt on easy install. Great fitment. New gaskets and new hanger came with the cat.

I have the oem silencer and an unknown aftermarket header without precats already on the car. If I had known my cheap header had a 35mm inner diameter, I would have ordered the Zero manifold too, since the Zero cat pipe has 44-45mm inner diameter. 

Very small change to the sound and no more noise than the stock cat.

Feels a little less restricted at high revs.

Nice small improvement. Guess I would need the full system to have more gains. Anyway, I am very satisfied.

[Bugster_MR2]

Rear shot.

[Ardent]

Tidy.

[tom256]

Rear shot.

Go for full exhaust mod.
Firstly I bought TTE muffler, and there was minor difference (mosty cool sound), later I bought Zero mainfold. I mas dissapointed with minor difference, mainly more louder and very sporty sound when You rev engine. Now after buying Zero cat difference is huge and I'm clearly feel the difference. Engine sound more like rally car. I was calling today tuning workshops to dyno the car, but everything is closed.
Maybe next week.
The question is now, if muffler with more flow will change anything.

[Dev]

 That Zero downpipe looks great. It has all of the features you want on both ends to stop leaks.

 That MWR 4 into 1 might actually be the OBX Chinese header that is available on EBay. It's believed to be a copy of the PPE but not a good copy.
   OBX Racing Header

  There have been several variants of  various performance downpipes throughout the years. They have been shown to produce on a dyno with before and after in the range of 8-10whp for the 1ZZ. It is a real power adder compared to other modifications.
  I have the cheap Chinese version but its problematic in terms of the flanges that leak so I had to modify mine to get it to work. 

[shnazzle]

Did some thread cleanup for non-cat chatter. 
Keep it on-topic (including myself in that)

[MR2Bart1991]

That Zero downpipe looks great. It has all of the features you want on both ends to stop leaks.

 That MWR 4 into 1 might actually be the OBX Chinese header that is available on EBay. It's believed to be a copy of the PPE but not a good copy.
   OBX Racing Header

  There have been several variants of  various performance downpipes throughout the years. They have been shown to produce on a dyno with before and after in the range of 8-10whp for the 1ZZ. It is a real power adder compared to other modifications.
  I have the cheap Chinese version but its problematic in terms of the flanges that leak so I had to modify mine to get it to work. 

Well i thought the chinese obx one had the 02 sensors at the wrong place, the mwr one has it at the correct place like the PPE now, also the oxb one only sells a not catted downpipe so i'm not sure if mwr now makes their own or they just take the obx one and correct the o2 sensors and or fit a high flow cat.

[Dev]

That Zero downpipe looks great. It has all of the features you want on both ends to stop leaks.

 That MWR 4 into 1 might actually be the OBX Chinese header that is available on EBay. It's believed to be a copy of the PPE but not a good copy.
   OBX Racing Header

  There have been several variants of  various performance downpipes throughout the years. They have been shown to produce on a dyno with before and after in the range of 8-10whp for the 1ZZ. It is a real power adder compared to other modifications.
  I have the cheap Chinese version but its problematic in terms of the flanges that leak so I had to modify mine to get it to work. 

Well i thought the chinese obx one had the 02 sensors at the wrong place, the mwr one has it at the correct place like the PPE now, also the oxb one only sells a not catted downpipe so i'm not sure if mwr now makes their own or they just take the obx one and correct the o2 sensors and or fit a high flow cat.

I had a look again and compared the both. I can now some some features that are different particularly the shape of the flange. Its probably their own.