Coilovers?

[Bimmer-Bob]

Looking at coilover options and quickly discovering that we don't have a whole lot to choose from. I don't necessarily want something super stiff, but I would like to lower the car - however, I prioritize performance over aesthetics, so any choice has to be good quality.

What I would love is an Ohlins Road & Track set like I have for my BMW. Simply sublime - simultaneously more comfortable on the street and more composed on the track. But no such thing exists for our cars. I guess Ohlins Japan did have a PCV set (as opposed to the newer DFV aka "Road & Track" kits) for the MR-S, but it has long since been discontinued and is extremely difficult to find in the States (although if I could find one cheap I'd be happy to send it for rebuilding).

What a lot of people seem to use is the BC coilovers. Normally I wouldn't give these a second look as my impression is that they're sort of a low-tier brand (and priced accordingly) but then I saw that they were used in the MR2 Championship spec-racing series you guys have. If they're used in real racing, they must be okay, no? Or is it just that they're cheap and expendable? Reviews on SpyderChat are pretty mixed, curious what you all have to say.

The only really quality solution that is easily obtainable off-the-shelf seems to be the KW V3s, but at a little more than twice the cost of the BCs, I figured I'd ask for opinions. I've seen almost nothing said about the KW's, but I trust the brand at least.

Thoughts?

[Ardent]

can you elaborate on what "your" requirements are.
Street?
Track?

[Alex Knight]

In my opinion (and experience) BC Racing and Meister R are far far too stiff for the road. I really didn't get on with them at all.

The spring rates seemed completely out of sync at low damping levels, leading to a curious and unpleasant pogo-ing motion.

For the record, they were good on track (very, very stiff), but for the road they needed less spring and more damper.

I didn't want to go back to springs and dampers, so I ended up going for a used set of TEIN Superstreets with EDFC from Japan.


You can literally feel the difference in damping sophistication. They are a great compromise for road and track. Having in-car damping adjustability is a real boon too. I couldn't be happier with them.

[Gaz mr-s]

Another option.  Some Americans with knowledge have done it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXSnNZt3NiI

[shnazzle]

I went for BCs with 4/6kg springs years ago. They've been on my car for about 6 years now and 50k miles. Never failed. No leaks. Nothing broken. Adjusting mechanism flawless. I've had some really pleasure out of them.

So for budget all-in coilovers, yes, they were worth every penny. I paid GBP642 delivered to my door. Another 20 for new rear droplinks.

Then MeisterR brought out the CRD model (5/7kg springs) and I had a ride and drove a couple and quite frankly it felt more compliant. Not as harsh. But not enough to really set it apart from BC who, like you say, had some pedigree in racing.
Then the CRD+ model came out and that was a notch better again. At this point I started wishing I had the CRD+. Bear in mind, I'm on softer springs than the MeisterR setups I've experienced. So I simply wouldn't entertain them with 5/7.
All the while, BC hasn't changed. No improvements, no nothing.

So if I had to choose a budget brand, it'd be MeisterR. I think it would make for a comfortable (enough) daily driver.

But, there's a reason the V3s are as much as they are. They're "proper" suspension. That's millions spent on R&D, dynos, race tracks, etc. Yes there's some name premium but the V3 kit leaves you without any doubt you're getting pretty much the best quality.

And now enter Jason's question... What are you going to do be doing with the car?
BCs are great and you'd really enjoy them I think (with 4/6kg springs). MeisterRs same. Maybe not as great on track but on rough roads, better.

[Bimmer-Bob]

So primarily this car is going to be used on the street, both for commuting in the city and for fun on some back roads. Ideally I will get some seat time at autocross events, but I don't currently have the time to seriously compete - it would just be for fun and as a safe way to learn the limits of this particular car. Probably no track days, at least not for the next two years as I'll be very busy with work (after that, who knows?).

San Diego city streets are rife with potholes and are generally in poor repair (at least that was the case when I lived there last, about six years ago), so I'm definitely not looking for something too stiff. I think this rules out the BCs. What appeals to me about the KWs, besides the reputation behind them, is the softer spring rates (3/5kg), which just might be the sweet spot between stock and track set ups.

The other possibility that someone mentioned is the Koni strut inserts, which could be paired with lowering springs from the likes of Eibach or H&R. This is kind of a close second place - the KWs win in terms of ride height adjustability and likely in terms of invested R&D as well - but a Koni-based set up runs about a third the cost of the KWs. However, the labor involved cannot be understated. Although I have no doubt of my ability to perform the "cut-a-strut" procedure, it is profoundly more complicated and time consuming than a true off-the-shelf solution like the KWs - and time, after all, is money.

If only there was a more reasonably priced product, like KW V1s - then it would be a no brainer. As it is, I'm still leaning towards the V3s as the best overall option currently on offer, but they run about as much as I paid for my Öhlins, and this was supposed to be my economical sports car.

[Alex Knight]

You need KYB shocks and Tein springs.

[Carolyn]

Or just a full OEM suspension refresh, even...

[thetyrant]

3 options in my research.

Koni Sport damper inserts with your choice of springs - these are miles ahead of all coilovers for comfort and road use while still retaining good body control, only downside is lack of springs if wanting to track them hard, i use these with Teins and looks good height wise but too soft for serious track but do teh job, coupled with stiffer ARB helps a lot with that.

KW V3 coilovers - expensive but proper quality and researched system, more street biased than track and KW themselves market as a street coilover rather than track, however will be better than above for track due to firmer springs, comfort wise probably not as nice as Koni on softer settings but should be acceptable for most, i keep toying with a set to replace my Konis but so far havent made the jump as Konis are such good allrounder.

BC Coilovers- cheap and cheerful but generic damping and firm spring rates mean not the best for road use in terms of comfort unless you like a firm ride, ive used them on other cars but primarily for track where they do an ok job, much easier to make a suspension setup work on track compared to all the variables of public roads.

[Ardent]

Option 4

Stock refresh kyb and teins as above.

[Topdownman]

I have been wondering what to do with my suspension. I have MeisterR coilovers and they are too firm for back road driving and you can get thrown off line by bounces on the worst roads.

I like the idea of the koni inserts but they are expensive and a bit of hassle to fit. Plus they rely on you knowing how to adjust them correctly (as coilovers do of course).

We can get kyb or sachs shocks but the sachs are more expensive and internet wisdom seems to say the sachs are softer than the kybs.

I am considering going back to kybs and tein springs myself as I think it will ultimately be better for what I use the car for. If I find too much body roll then I could think about bigger anti-roll bars.
I like the tein springs because they drop the car 4 mm more than the rear which compensates for the raised front on the stock set up.

Given that suspension is an item that wears out with time and mileage, I dont want to have a crazy expensive set up personally unless I knew it was right for me!

[shnazzle]

My #1 at the minute is definitely the Koni+H&R option. 
For 2 reasons; compliance but I CAN adjust it for a bit more fun on flatter roads. And not having my teeth rattled out after 6 years would be a bonus. 

I have to reiterate what I said somewhere else @Bimmer-Bob...
I drove Carolyn's setup, which is fresh KYB and OEM springs, the whole lot refreshed and brand new,with a big mama middle brace and a TRD front strut brace and although I drove it for a limited amount it felt fantastic.
A LOT stiffer than than imagined it would be. Certainly not the soggy mess I was used to from aged stock suspension. 
It's not to be underrated. It's not even night/day. It's much more of a difference than that. It's peak summer/deep winter. 
Comfortable for even the most sensitive but corners felt controlled, firm and communicative. And I also know for a fact that Carolyn puts it through its paces and it performs absolutely fine. 

I've never been a fan of the stock struts + Tein or TTE/Eibach setup because the stock struts don't seem to compensate well. The spring rates are the same, meaning a lot of scraping of the car on deep compressions. And there are a lot of those where I live. But I've never seen Tein+fresh KYB/stock. That may work well. Maybe it was just an effect of aged struts I was seeing.
We had one MR2 with reasonably fresh struts (25k miles) and TTE springs and quite frankly I found it stupid. Same rate but less spring,same weight on car... Seems daft.

[thetyrant]

Stock struts in good shape are ok but i always felt on mine it was a bit floaty at front end, changed to TEin springs and felt better but then i added the Koni sport dampers into the mix and it was night and day improvement!, to be fair i havent used brand new stock struts but the ones i had appeared to be in good order when removed but appreciate they wouldnt of been as good as new ones.

Its a shame Koni dont make a direct bolt on complete unit for these like they do on others as i think they would sell loads, many are put off by them being inserts with cut-a-strut to install, its a bit of a fiddle to cut your stock strut and replace etc with Koni but its a lot less work than it sounds, however you do need to have the tools and more know how than just swapping struts over.

I was tempted to start buying up old dampers to convert and sell on with Konis fitted but i just dont have the time at moment.

[Beachbum957]

We have run stock springs with KYB and Konis, and Tein-S with KYB and Konis.  The stock springs work nicely with the KYB, but the Koni are a bit better. However, the cost of the Konis may be hard to justify for a daily driver.

The Tein work "OK" with the KYB, but the Konis are much better.  Unless cost is a big consideration, I would suggest going with the Konis with any lowering springs as the damping in the KYB doesn't match up very well with stiffer springs.

The Tein are not nearly as stiff as any of the common coilovers, but if you have a lot of potholes (we do), any lowering spring will reduce travel and ground clearance, and both could be issues.

[Alex Knight]

I honestly don't know why more people don't do what I did and import TEIN Superstreet from Japan.

It's a bit more hassle than buying from the UK, but it's easier than it's ever been now.

They really are fantastic - I can't praise them enough. They are great on the road, and more than enough (for me) on track, and most of you know I do a lot of trackdays.

[shnazzle]

I honestly don't know why more people don't do what I did and import TEIN Superstreet from Japan.

It's a bit more hassle than buying from the UK, but it's easier than it's ever been now.

They really are fantastic - I can't praise them enough. They are great on the road, and more than enough (for me) on track, and most of you know I do a lot of trackdays.

I can't back this up with any evidence but I was told the Teins were supposed to be super harsh. Is that not true? 

If it's not then they're firmly back on my list. Especially with EDFC. @jvanzyl second opinion? I've never actually asked you.

[thetyrant]

I honestly don't know why more people don't do what I did and import TEIN Superstreet from Japan.

It's a bit more hassle than buying from the UK, but it's easier than it's ever been now.

They really are fantastic - I can't praise them enough. They are great on the road, and more than enough (for me) on track, and most of you know I do a lot of trackdays.

Tein superstreet is no longer made and hasnt been for some time, buying used suspension at best of times is a gamble but importing it from Japan is even more so and its not cheap either.

Tein monosport is available (just!) for these car new but its expensive and more track focused, from research i did damper is much better than Superstreet etc and it will take some softer springs to make it more road biased, however for the price of it KW V3 is better option if mainly road use imo

Ive used Tein superstreet on my GT86 and while it was ok and better than BC etc it wasnt anything special, certainly not worth gambling with importing a used kit from japan, i see there is a set on ebay a moment in uk from a breaker but at 750 i think its a bit much but was tempted.

[jvanzyl]

I honestly don't know why more people don't do what I did and import TEIN Superstreet from Japan.

It's a bit more hassle than buying from the UK, but it's easier than it's ever been now.

They really are fantastic - I can't praise them enough. They are great on the road, and more than enough (for me) on track, and most of you know I do a lot of trackdays.

I can't back this up with any evidence but I was told the Teins were supposed to be super harsh. Is that not true?

If it's not then they're firmly back on my list. Especially with EDFC. @jvanzyl second opinion? I've never actually asked you.

I've got the Tein Monosport with EDFC2, it is defininetly stiffer but I also have poly bushing all round.. I've love to know what it's like with standard bushing. The great benefit to me is being able to switch from "cruising" to "sport" with the push of a button. i.e. coming off a motorway and going onto a roundabout system, having a blast, then rejoining the motorway and going back to "cruise"..

I think they are very good, but I do think that going with stock bushing refresh would make them even better.
I've unfortunately bought T1R's which seem to last a lifetime but at least they're cheap to replace with all the punctures. Next tyres will likely be yoko's but the new TR1's sound (in theory) to be better so we'll see what it's like in terms of costs..  I've got the snelbaard breastplate, plus the TTE mid brace and the UR front strut brace so it really does handle fantastically when on the boil, limited only by my driving talent and the current softer side walls..

[Alex Knight]

I honestly don't know why more people don't do what I did and import TEIN Superstreet from Japan.

It's a bit more hassle than buying from the UK, but it's easier than it's ever been now.

They really are fantastic - I can't praise them enough. They are great on the road, and more than enough (for me) on track, and most of you know I do a lot of trackdays.

I can't back this up with any evidence but I was told the Teins were supposed to be super harsh. Is that not true?

If it's not then they're firmly back on my list. Especially with EDFC. @jvanzyl second opinion? I've never actually asked you.

Absolutely not harsh at all. There's a real quality to the damping.

Miles better on the road than any Meister/BC that I have tried.

[Alex Knight]

I honestly don't know why more people don't do what I did and import TEIN Superstreet from Japan.

It's a bit more hassle than buying from the UK, but it's easier than it's ever been now.

They really are fantastic - I can't praise them enough. They are great on the road, and more than enough (for me) on track, and most of you know I do a lot of trackdays.

Tein superstreet is no longer made and hasnt been for some time, buying used suspension at best of times is a gamble but importing it from Japan is even more so and its not cheap either.

Tein monosport is available (just!) for these car new but its expensive and more track focused, from research i did damper is much better than Superstreet etc and it will take some softer springs to make it more road biased, however for the price of it KW V3 is better option if mainly road use imo

Ive used Tein superstreet on my GT86 and while it was ok and better than BC etc it wasnt anything special, certainly not worth gambling with importing a used kit from japan, i see there is a set on ebay a moment in uk from a breaker but at 750 i think its a bit much but was tempted.

I'd have to disagree about the Gamble comment. From my many experiences of buying used car parts from Japan, they are SIGNIFICANTLY better described, and much more honestly marketed than anything I've bought elsewhere. They go to lengths to photograph and describe any flaws.

[thetyrant]

Really you think buying something used isnt a gamble ?  of course it is no matter what the item is and especially on suspension when you cant check to see if damping is working as it should be etc, i do agree that used parts in Japan are often better condition and described well/pictures etc but on coilovers all you can see is that collars for adjustment  look ok and basic paint condition, not how well it functions etc which even seller may not be aware of so even more of a gamble, sound like you got lucky and pleased that you are are happy with them

Ive been importing used and new parts from Japan for over 25years for my cars and can tell you there is plenty of rubbish over there as well, personally on something like a low budget coilover aka Tein Superstreet which cant be easily rebuilt if there is a damper issue i would say gamble is too big for me, each to their own though

I would like to try the Monosport before its discontinued and use a softer spring setup to make it more road/sprint biased, cost is the problem though and as i can get KW v3 at reasonable trade discount i would just go with that if i changed.

[jvanzyl]

last I checked sending Teins off for a rebuild was about £400?

[thetyrant]

last I checked sending Teins off for a rebuild was about £400?

Depends on which ones i think and some are not rebuild-able so needs a new body, pretty sure your Monosports can be opened up and rebuild though and typically looking at anything from £100 to £300+ per damper from memory, just depends what is needed and if just seals and oil its not so bad, but if bent rods etc it adds up, often its cheaper to replace the complete unit hence why some of the lower models in range they dont offer a rebuild service and just replace the damper.

[Alex Knight]

Really you think buying something used isnt a gamble ?

That's absolutely not what I said - at all.

I was referencing the fact that Japanese auctions are higher quality and more honest than most, which you then went on to also elude to.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough - in which case - my mistake.

My friend Andy (the former proprietor) of Bonsai Garage recently rebuilt his Tein Superstreets for less than £150.00 with genuine parts from here: https://uk.tein.com/faq/oh.html

If you can do it yourself - it's very inexpensive.

[thetyrant]

Really you think buying something used isnt a gamble ?

That's absolutely not what I said - at all.

I was referencing the fact that Japanese auctions are higher quality and more honest than most, which you then went on to also elude to.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough - in which case - my mistake.

My friend Andy (the former proprietor) of Bonsai Garage recently rebuilt his Tein Superstreets for less than £150.00 with genuine parts from here: https://uk.tein.com/faq/oh.html

If you can do it yourself - it's very inexpensive.

Well you did say "I'd have to disagree about the Gamble comment" which i took as you thought it wasnt a gamble , its no issue though and i dont want to start an argument about it, if you had good luck with them and are happy thats the main thing

I was mainly trying to react to your original comment "I honestly don't know why more people don't do what I did and import TEIN Superstreet from Japan"   there is good reason and mainly that its not so simple for most of us, knowing where to look and how to translate etc can be quite a minefield, also the risk of buying used suspension on top of that to me makes it quite a gamble in my eyes that is all.

Having a good contact out there is the key, especially if the auction/for sale text looks like just a collection of lines and squiggles like it does to me