Mr Poo the MunteR2

[JB21]

Good to meet you @AdamR28. Your car didn't look out of place one bit and was flying on track. Bet it surprised a lot out there.

Thanks for the help after my crash as well.

Got home fine. Amazingly drives straight and true.

I was very lucky I think.

Just got on it to early and kept my foot in, by the time I could react it was to late. Lesson well and truly learnt.

[Ardent]

In the dark, didn't expect that.
I could have stuffed it up much sooner.

Take it you and  2 are OK.

[JB21]

In the dark, didn't expect that.
I could have stuffed it up much sooner.

Take it you and  2 are OK.

All good mate thank you 👍

[AdamR28]

Cheers man, yeah standard suspension works well at 3 Sisters!

Very sorry to see you in the bump, and also not sure if I should have been the one to mention it first so didn't, but really glad there doesn't seem to have been any serious damage to both you and the car!

Hope you can get the bits for it easily.

[AdamR28]

As alluded to in a previous post, Mr Poo will now be resigned to track duties. The Bucket is so much nicer in pretty much every way, so my plan to have 2 Become 1 (if you sang that as if you were Mel C, kudos) is now in the bin - leaving one pretty much standard road car (El Bucketo), and another one that will need trailering around to get anywhere fun (Mr Poo).

Now, I have a history of 'improving' (wrecking?) cars, making the most of what's at my disposal without throwing all the go-faster bits China's aftermarket car parts division can muster at the project. The MunteR2 will be no exception (I hope!).

Munter? Yes, this is the affectionate name given to a previous mx-engineinwrongplace  I 'munterised'. I was racing Mk1s at the time, and my self-imposed challenge was to build a track car for under £1000 that was faster round track than a 'proper' race car. Glad to say I succeeded, but the aforementioned Mr Wonder who did the geo on Mr Poo probably is the only man in existence who will approve at the cosmetics.

If you're the sort of person who gets precious about cars, you should probably now scroll up rather than down, close your browsing window immediately, and never come back here...



My own little £500 Bargain Bucket went from this:

You cannot view this attachment.


To this, in 5 weeks:

You cannot view this attachment.


And then it now looks like this, after a few years of 'special care' (huge thanks to my mate Mark who stuck it in the tyres at Cadwell - seriously, I think it looks better for a little track-based patina):

You cannot view this attachment.


Sparse.

You cannot view this attachment.


But surprisingly rapid, due to tiny wheels dropping the gearing down, just 802kg of weight, and the MX5s famous handling characteristics:

Which also allowed it to do this:

There's a build thread here for insomniacs: https://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=216681


Anyway, as you can see, it's been a heck of a lot of fun - for everyone who has spent time in either seat. Going sideways a lot while barely sipping fuel, gradually whittling down brake pads, hardly shaving rubber off the tyres, and needing little else in terms of attention - but all things must come to an end at some point. With the itch for a winter project, the Munter is now being given away to a new home and Mr Poo will fill his comedy boots.


Given that she (Mr Poo has decided he / she wants to become non-binary, such is the modern age) is already sitting around 935kg, from some very quick maths I think the final weight figure MIGHT even start with a 7... That is a tough target, and I won't be disappointed if I don't quite get there, but it's worth a shot.

Here's what I have in mind to start with (silver car used for the image because it's the best one I could find in Google!).

You cannot view this attachment.

Of course all the interior will come out (dash, carpets, plastics, radio, heater, etc), doors will be completely skinned, swap the steering wheel to a decent one, rip the ABS and handbrake systems out entirely, ditch the radiator fans, swap the battery for an ickle baby one, and build a neat roll cage to offer occupant protection as well as adding some 3rd polar stiffness to the (let's be honest, pretty floppy) chassis.

Like the Munter, I won't be lobbing any / many Max Power 'go-faster' bits at the car. I'll stick with standard dampers, ARBs, standard brakes and road pads, standard wheels and decent quality road tyres - I don't believe any of these bits make a car more fun, even if they do increase the car's performance (whether the driver can exploit this, is another discussion for another day...).

Hoping to get some time this week to begin the fun bit - the tear-down! If anyone does want any interior bits just let me know and I'll hang onto 'em, they're all free of course.

[shnazzle]

As alluded to in a previous post, Mr Poo will now be resigned to track duties. The Bucket is so much nicer in pretty much every way, so my plan to have 2 Become 1 (if you sang that as if you were Mel C, kudos) is now in the bin - leaving one pretty much standard road car (El Bucketo), and another one that will need trailering around to get anywhere fun (Mr Poo).

Now, I have a history of 'improving' (wrecking?) cars, making the most of what's at my disposal without throwing all the go-faster bits China's aftermarket car parts division can muster at the project. The MunteR2 will be no exception (I hope!).

Munter? Yes, this is the affectionate name given to a previous mx-engineinwrongplace  I 'munterised'. I was racing Mk1s at the time, and my self-imposed challenge was to build a track car for under £1000 that was faster round track than a 'proper' race car. Glad to say I succeeded, but the aforementioned Mr Wonder who did the geo on Mr Poo probably is the only man in existence who will approve at the cosmetics.

If you're the sort of person who gets precious about cars, you should probably now scroll up rather than down, close your browsing window immediately, and never come back here...



My own little £500 Bargain Bucket went from this:

You cannot view this attachment.


To this, in 5 weeks:

You cannot view this attachment.


And then it now looks like this, after a few years of 'special care' (huge thanks to my mate Mark who stuck it in the tyres at Cadwell - seriously, I think it looks better for a little track-based patina):

You cannot view this attachment.


Sparse.

You cannot view this attachment.


But surprisingly rapid, due to tiny wheels dropping the gearing down, just 802kg of weight, and the MX5s famous handling characteristics:

Which also allowed it to do this:

There's a build thread here for insomniacs: https://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=216681


Anyway, as you can see, it's been a heck of a lot of fun - for everyone who has spent time in either seat. Going sideways a lot while barely sipping fuel, gradually whittling down brake pads, hardly shaving rubber off the tyres, and needing little else in terms of attention - but all things must come to an end at some point. With the itch for a winter project, the Munter is now being given away to a new home and Mr Poo will fill his comedy boots.


Given that she (Mr Poo has decided he / she wants to become non-binary, such is the modern age) is already sitting around 935kg, from some very quick maths I think the final weight figure MIGHT even start with a 7... That is a tough target, and I won't be disappointed if I don't quite get there, but it's worth a shot.

Here's what I have in mind to start with (silver car used for the image because it's the best one I could find in Google!).

You cannot view this attachment.

Of course all the interior will come out (dash, carpets, plastics, radio, heater, etc), doors will be completely skinned, swap the steering wheel to a decent one, rip the ABS and handbrake systems out entirely, ditch the radiator fans, swap the battery for an ickle baby one, and build a neat roll cage to offer occupant protection as well as adding some 3rd polar stiffness to the (let's be honest, pretty floppy) chassis.

Like the Munter, I won't be lobbing any / many Max Power 'go-faster' bits at the car. I'll stick with standard dampers, ARBs, standard brakes and road pads, standard wheels and decent quality road tyres - I don't believe any of these bits make a car more fun, even if they do increase the car's performance (whether the driver can exploit this, is another discussion for another day...).

Hoping to get some time this week to begin the fun bit - the tear-down! If anyone does want any interior bits just let me know and I'll hang onto 'em, they're all free of course.

Brilliant!

[Chilli Girl]

Great driving - thoroughly enjoyed watching that, thanks.

[Roj]

Superb, I love this ethos!

[1979scotte]

He actually posted a picture of a eunos roadster.
I feel physically sick.
@shnazzle permaban alstublieft liefde.

[Ardent]

With a nod to our resident weight watcher @Petrus

I don't know what a !**!nus weighed to begin with, but after a dose of adding lightness. (802kg ) In my small brain that is like an upgrade to the brakes. They have less to stop. Basic, but that's how my mind works.

Edit
little addition for clarity

[Petrus]

With a nod to our resident weight watcher @Petrus

I don't know what a !**!nus weighed to begin with, but after a dose of adding lightness. In my small brain that is like an upgrade to the brakes. They have less to stop. Basic, but that's how my mind works.

The kinetic energy in a moving is linear with the mass. Thus the energy that needs to be dissipated by the brakes is too.
An added factor is tyre load sensitivy of rúbber which means that the friction coëfficient deminishes with oncreased load. This means that a heavier load on the tyres reduced the max. force that can be tranmsmitted by the tyres. This means that a lighter can can transfer more.
Thus the brakes of a lighter car have more braking potential on both the less energy to dissipate and the higher level that can be.

[iffyT]

Yep, Ke=MV^2.
Doing some lightening improves everything. Whereas adding power only improves one thing, while increasing wear and tear to other bits.

@AdamR28 Do you think you can get it to 200bhp per ton?
Good to see you are committed to some proper craziness! Carry on good sir.

If you ever come down south for a track day, I want to have a ride!

[Ardent]

With a nod to our resident weight watcher @Petrus

I don't know what a !**!nus weighed to begin with, but after a dose of adding lightness. In my small brain that is like an upgrade to the brakes. They have less to stop. Basic, but that's how my mind works.

The kinetic energy in a moving is linear with the mass. Thus the energy that needs to be dissipated by the brakes is too.
An added factor is tyre load sensitivy of rúbber which means that the friction coëfficient deminishes with oncreased load. This means that a heavier load on the tyres reduced the max. force that can be tranmsmitted by the tyres. This means that a lighter can can transfer more.
Thus the brakes of a lighter car have more braking potential on both the less energy to dissipate and the higher level that can be.

That nearly makes me feel smug with myself. I was right. Even if I couldn't explain why.

[Petrus]

That nearly makes me feel smug with myself. I was right. Even if I couldn't explain why.

Even just by intuition it is obvious that:
A car weighing 15% less has
1. 15% less kinetic energy to be dissipated
2. a roughly 5% higher friction coëfficient = 5% more energy which can be transferred to the road.
= 20% shorter stopping distance from same speed with same tyres.

Even from only 60 mph that makes 100 feet 80 feet: Uffff!!!!

[Ardent]

Now matter how small the win I'll take it.

On the basis.
There is nothing so simple it cannot be misunderstood.

A previous thought for the day.

[iffyT]

That nearly makes me feel smug with myself. I was right. Even if I couldn't explain why.

Even from only 60 mph that makes 100 feet 80 feet: Uffff!!!!

A nice way to envision this is to imagine an obstacle 80ft away. The lighter one will stop just in time, the other will hit the obstacle at probably double-digit speed.

[1979scotte]

Yep, Ke=MV^2.
Doing some lightening improves everything. Whereas adding power only improves one thing, while increasing wear and tear to other bits.

@AdamR28 Do you think you can get it to 200bhp per ton?
Good to see you are committed to some proper craziness! Carry on good sir.

If you ever come down south for a track day, I want to have a ride!

He'd need to get the weight to 690kg and that's if the car still makes 138bhp.
Both doubtful IMHO but worth a try.

[AdamR28]

Thanks @shnazzle and @Chilli Girl !

Yep, Ke=MV^2.
Doing some lightening improves everything. Whereas adding power only improves one thing, while increasing wear and tear to other bits.

@AdamR28 Do you think you can get it to 200bhp per ton?
Good to see you are committed to some proper craziness! Carry on good sir.

If you ever come down south for a track day, I want to have a ride!

Exactly - weight reduction every single time 

I've tried heavier, higher powered cars on track and they just feel... dead. And I'm a tight northerner, all that wasted fuel, tyres and brakes when you could go just as fast for a lot cheaper 


200bhp/ton... I think it's doable. I have an aftermarket manifold on there already, plus will de-cat the link pipe, maybe build a proper collector if the standard one looks crap when I inspect it, and build a much less restrictive backbox (a bit like the Malain 'Race' one, except probably exiting straight out the back). That's gotta make 145bhp, maybe 150 on a good day, looking at this post and the one below: https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=27521.msg488501#msg488501

At 145bhp, that means a requirement for 725kg. Again, might fall short of the 'target' but it'll be fun trying!


You would be most welcome to a ride @iffyT - same goes for anyone. As with the Munter, the car is designed to be shared and enjoyed by as many as possible. At last count, Munter 1 had over a dozen different drivers on track, so the plan is to beat this with MunteR2 


Have a few deliveries due this week, so will keep updating as and when things happen.

[1979scotte]

Sorry mate you'll be lucky if she cranks out the factory 138.
Nobody ever does before and after dynos so we never really know.
Good luck with the weight saving hope you don't need to go on a diet like me.

[JB21]

Looking like a very interesting project Adam. Even if you don't make 200hp/ton it will still be a beast. I'll be defo taking some tips on weight reduction from your build.

Don't suppose you have a spare front undertray from Mr poo mk1 do you?

[AdamR28]

I don't Phil, sorry, he came without out!

[AdamR28]

Sorry mate you'll be lucky if she cranks out the factory 138.
Nobody ever does before and after dynos so we never really know.
Good luck with the weight saving hope you don't need to go on a diet like me.

Fair shout! Maybe I'll chuck her on the local 'Heartbreak Dyno' at some point just for a laugh.

Haha. Thanks. Its good point you raise, there's usually a few kilos to come off the driver too!

[1979scotte]

Sorry mate you'll be lucky if she cranks out the factory 138.
Nobody ever does before and after dynos so we never really know.
Good luck with the weight saving hope you don't need to go on a diet like me.

Fair shout! Maybe I'll chuck her on the local 'Heartbreak Dyno' at some point just for a laugh.

Haha. Thanks. Its good point you raise, there's usually a few kilos to come off the driver too!

Always make we think of bikers spending £££on carbon fibre bits for their R1s when they could easily loose 10kg off their waste line.
At 105kg I could to with loosing 20.

[JB21]

I don't Phil, sorry, he came without out!

No problem mate.

[AdamR28]

Managed a few hours this afternoon dissecting Mr Poo. This is a very well put together car; logical, nice quality, well thought-out.

Or was.

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You cannot view this attachment.

The sheer amount of stuff that comes out of a car when you strip it is mental. Looking at the pile I sort of can't believe it all came out of that small space!


Removed so far, with either accurate or estimated weights (denoted by a c.)...

Seats and runners: 34kg
Doors: 56kg (!)
Dash with airbag: 10kg
Roof and associated gubbins: 22kg
Battery: 11kg
Heater matrix, controls, etc: c.5kg
Carpets and other plastics: c.5kg
Handbrake lever, seat belts, other misc crap: c.3kg
Skin of just one knuckle, surprisingly: 1g


Still to come out / off:

Windscreen and frame
Wiper motor, washer pump, bottle
Cooling fans
ABS pump
Handbrake cables
Main cat (replaced with a straight pipe)
A good lump of rear bumper
Maybe 35kg for this lot?


To go back in:

Roll cage: c.25kg
Seats, a runner, and harnesses: c.16kg
Shifter: c.1kg
Door skins, bolted into place: c.6kg
Battery: sub 1kg


All that totted up makes 181kg coming out, and 48kg going back. With a starting weight of approx 935kg, its gonna be a close call as to whether the final number starts with a 7 or an 8...