1zz Turbo build take2!

[Carolyn]

Defo need to try a 1zz turbo at some point, bet they're chalk and cheese compared to my 2zz.

You should try a supercharged 1ZZ!

[thetyrant]

So the kit consists of:
Manifold
Downpipe
Turbo to v band adapter
Charge pipe
Tial style blow off valve
Goodridge braided turbo feed hose
Oil feed adapter fitting
Oil return hose
Various AN fittings for the feed and return hoses
Sump AN adapter
Braided water feed and drain hoses
Water hose adapters
Water hose banjo fittings
Silicone hoses for the charge pipe
Silicone hoses for the vacuum feeds
Exhaust gaskets
Studs and nuts for the manifold, turbo and adapters
Various clamps for the charge pipe fittings
Air filter for the turbo

I would ask if that is all ready to fit parts? as in a kit that just needs a turbo,  or just universal stuff which might be suitable which to me is not a kit, i seem to remember in past they just supplied another member a box of universal parts which needed to be made to fit/work etc and some parts were still needed so hardly what i would call a kit, also you could probably source it all a lot cheaper all depends what you can do/make yourself but its a starting point if your not familiar with doing jobs like this just dont expect too much.

The manifolds are not bad value but the 995 kit ive seen on ebay i wouldnt bother with personally, as you can see by the difference in there price for a fitted kit there is a lot more too it than the bits you get for 995 and add on a turbo

[JB21]

Defo need to try a 1zz turbo at some point, bet they're chalk and cheese compared to my 2zz.

They're very different .

Tbh I find the 2zz totally underwhelming. Especially if the exhaust has been cocked up.


Mike's 2zz with cams and ecumaster is pretty good and they go nicely when rotrexed.

I'm a torque fan so they just don't suit me.
Turbo is the best bang for your bucks imho.

Agree to an extent, for the road anyway. On track is where the 2ZZ is at home...revs, noise, vibrations etc. A 2zz supercharged would be perfect for me. You still have the above attributes but torque to go with it.

[McSmallface]

I would place a bet that it's just universal fittings and pipework and it's down to you to make everything fit, a bit confused how exhaust downpipes etc are being supplied without a turbo as surely it's all got to mate up depending on what turbo you have?

I'd love to go supercharged but I know even less about that then I do about turbos. There is a 1zz blitz supercharger kit on eBay but as I know feck all about superchargers I haven't got a clue what I'm looking at.

[thetyrant]

There is no easy supercharger kit for the 1zz anymore and i think the old jap kits like Blitz etc where not great for various reasons, most people recently that have supercharged 1zz and 2zz fit a Rotrex where the AC pump usually sits down on front of engine which makes a neat install,  however i looked at this myself but didnt for several reason first being the cost of a Rotrex unit and the kit you need to lube it etc, which is well north of £2000 new and used ones a really lottery! next im not a fan of way they deliver the power as they work in a linear way building boost with revs so dont really feel boosted like a turbo does as you dont get the hit of low down torque with a Rotrex generally, i like the  strong midrange you get with turbo making lazy fast progress possible.

Rotrex have there place just not for me, although if price was better i would like to play around with one just to see how i got on with it but unless i got chance of a cheap known good used one its not going to happen.

Carolyn on here has supercharged a 1zz with a twin screw unit from a BMW mini which i also did on my old Mazda MX, these do make great midrange torque and loved mine on the mazda getting full boost just off idle and it made a great little road/track setup on that car, however mounting on 1zz in back of the car is a challenge but C has had success with it after some lateral thinking and it is something i would consider doing instead of a turbo but we will see.

[Carolyn]

The supercharger car is still at my place and is available to view and have a drive for the next few weeks before it gets sold.

It's a unique chance to find out what it's all about.

[1979scotte]

There is no easy supercharger kit for the 1zz anymore and i think the old jap kits like Blitz etc where not great for various reasons, most people recently that have supercharged 1zz and 2zz fit a Rotrex where the AC pump usually sits down on front of engine which makes a neat install,  however i looked at this myself but didnt for several reason first being the cost of a Rotrex unit and the kit you need to lube it etc, which is well north of £2000 new and used ones a really lottery! next im not a fan of way they deliver the power as they work in a linear way building boost with revs so dont really feel boosted like a turbo does as you dont get the hit of low down torque with a Rotrex generally, i like the  strong midrange you get with turbo making lazy fast progress possible.

Rotrex have there place just not for me, although if price was better i would like to play around with one just to see how i got on with it but unless i got chance of a cheap known good used one its not going to happen.

Carolyn on here has supercharged a 1zz with a twin screw unit from a BMW mini which i also did on my old Mazda MX, these do make great midrange torque and loved mine on the mazda getting full boost just off idle and it made a great little road/track setup on that car, however mounting on 1zz in back of the car is a challenge but C has had success with it after some lateral thinking and it is something i would consider doing instead of a turbo but we will see.

The rotrex is much better than most centrifugal superchargers it's not all in the last 1000rpm.
Price wise a brand new garrett gtx2867r with all the bits is going to be £1500 and as you say the rotrex will be closer to 2k.
The rotrex makes an engine feel like you have just added another litre of capacity it doesn't change the character of the engine.
It also doesn't tap into your engine coolant or oil lines nor does it heat your engine bay to super nova temperatures.
On the down side its not easy to change boost levels and you won't get a nice torque plateau.
Also the traction fluid which is the key to how a rotrex is so much better than other centrifugal superchargers is like £70 a litre.
When my V6 car runs properly the rotrex makes it a lot of fun.
If you like being scared shi***ss

[1979scotte]

The supercharger car is still at my place and is available to view and have a drive for the next few weeks before it gets sold.

It's a unique chance to find out what it's all about.

Mines there too.

[thetyrant]

The rotrex is much better than most centrifugal superchargers it's not all in the last 1000rpm.
Price wise a brand new garrett gtx2867r with all the bits is going to be £1500 and as you say the rotrex will be closer to 2k.
The rotrex makes an engine feel like you have just added another litre of capacity it doesn't change the character of the engine.
It also doesn't tap into your engine coolant or oil lines nor does it heat your engine bay to super nova temperatures.
On the down side its not easy to change boost levels and you won't get a nice torque plateau.
Also the traction fluid which is the key to how a rotrex is so much better than other centrifugal superchargers is like £70 a litre.
When my V6 car runs properly the rotrex makes it a lot of fun.
If you like being scared shi***ss

As i said they have there place i dont think its for me at least on a 1zz, you having a rotrex on a V6 is not really an argument for one on a 1zz as you have some reasonable torque without the boost

 Certainly the linear power delivery of a rotrex is a benefit especially in a larger capacty engine making it much easier to control than a big lump of torque with a turbo, also in theory its easier on the engine as your not under as much stress low down like you could be with a punchy smaller turbo.

Below is a good example (if pic works!) of difference between a rotrex 2zz (red line on graph) and turbo 2zz (blue line on graph as i couldnt find a good 1zz comparison, as you can see they both make similar peak power at the topend with rotrex gain 20hp right at top,  but the way the get there is very different and to me for mostly road use its all about the area under the curve as in more of it the better, meaning no need to use the revs to make rapid progess, however on a track car where your singing in the higher revs more of the time the Rotrex is more appealing especially if it can keep air temp down better maybe.

Not having to plumb into oil and water circuits is a big plus on supercharging and why i did it on the mazda, however now having done a turbo on 1zz the oil/water side doesnt worry me as much as its not as bad as i thought, once i got a decent drain fitting into sump that is!

Cost of Rotrex is the killer really on these cars i think,  to do it with new stuff its more like £3000+ for parts by time you have bought all filter, pulleys, brackets and fluid etc, just the blower alone is £2500 with the vat, so i think its going to be double the cost of turbo for less torque, im surprised that you liking torque so much you favour the Rotrex over turbo to be honest ?   maybe your scared of what your V6 would do with a turbo on there   





Link here to the thread with details on cars this graph was from, as they say teh turbo car was set ot make 300hp and would of easily made more with boost but the customer didnt want it  - https://www.spyderchat.com/threads/rotrex-vs-turbo.86281/

[thetyrant]

Just to add the the above you can see how laggy the GT28 is on a 1.8 litre motor, the smaller T25 turbo i had was making peak torque a lot lower down.

[1979scotte]

Just to add the the above you can see how laggy the GT28 is on a 1.8 litre motor, the smaller T25 turbo i had was making peak torque a lot lower down.

You don't need a GT28 on a roadster I wholeheartedly agree.
My rotrex unit was 1700 quid mate the other bits didn't add up to 3 grand.

I totally understand what your getting at. You totally get more power for less money with a turbo than you do with a rotrex and you do miss that big slug or torque a turbo provides but the linear power delivery from a rotrex is very sweet.
Can't argue that they work better the more displacement you have to work with. A bone stock 1mz makes about 170 ftlb at 2k rpm so it doesn't need any help down low.

[thetyrant]

My rotrex unit was 1700 quid mate the other bits didn't add up to 3 grand.

I dont think you could buy and fit one for much less than 3 grand now, its £2400 for charger, oil tank, filter, pipe and oil etc, then you need to get air in and out and into engine etc and mount it, sort belt and tensioners etc it soon adds up.

All depends what people want i guess, it would be good to tinker with one but on a cheap car like this its not really worth it for most.

[1979scotte]

My rotrex unit was 1700 quid mate the other bits didn't add up to 3 grand.

I dont think you could buy and fit one for much less than 3 grand now, its £2400 for charger, oil tank, filter, pipe and oil etc, then you need to get air in and out and into engine etc and mount it, sort belt and tensioners etc it soon adds up.

All depends what people want i guess, it would be good to tinker with one but on a cheap car like this its not really worth it for most.

Jesus the prices really have gone up.
Yes your right at £2400 you won't get it done for under 3k.
Shame because it's a different option. It's a power adder that still feels NA.

[thetyrant]

Well ive made a start on reviving this project and ordered another Malian Manifold

Ive got a trackday in a couple of weeks so will get that out the way and then decide if im doing more in stock form or to start the turbo build, i really need to get my spare 1zz engine back together and out the way first though!

[pistol pete]

be good to see. Hope you get to a TSS round!
I need to find /understand turbos and sizes. I know i have a t3 flange on my manifold, I think the saabs us a t3 flange. I know the sierra cossies did..

[thetyrant]

be good to see. Hope you get to a TSS round!
I need to find /understand turbos and sizes. I know i have a t3 flange on my manifold, I think the saabs us a t3 flange. I know the sierra cossies did..

Yes indeed hopefully make it to a TSS either na or turbo, ive missed out on my local at croft left it too late while grumbling about the new prices!

Flange wise it does get a bit confusing but i found a good site with dimensions if you need to check here - https://www.sincocustoms.com/identifing-turbo-flanges/

T3 is a common fitment on older stuff like you say but also newer garret stuff is available in T3 as well, what sort of power are you thinking of going upto ?

[Mark A]

This is an interesting T3 read and I think he has a couple of videos on YouTube.

http://www.stavtech.co.uk/home/stavs-tech-tips-the-holset-he221w-360bhp-capable-and-fast-spooling-turbo-can-be-easily-fitted-to-standard-subaru-volvo-and-saab-exhaust-manifolds-and-downpipes

[pistol pete]

I know what group i am aiming for so 300hp is the aim, keeps in well within the engines limits

Ill have a reads of them thanks

[1979scotte]

I know what group i am aiming for so 300hp is the aim, keeps in well within the engines limits

Ill have a reads of them thanks

Which engine are we talking about?
300 is a lot for a stock engine.

[thetyrant]

Pete has 2zz so 300 shouldn't be an issue

[1979scotte]

Pete has 2zz so 300 shouldn't be an issue

Have to be wary of the torque.
The transmission is still a C series box.

Driven
1zz
1zz turbo
2zz with cams
2zz rotrex
1mz
1mz rotrex
2gr

Never a 2zz turbo

[thetyrant]

Sounds like its the only one your missing out on

[1979scotte]

Sounds like its the only one your missing out on

K20 of any description never even seen one in the metal.

3s gte never got a chance to have a go in Lee's one.

1zz supercharged obviously seen and heard @Gibla @Carolyn one but not driven it.

Yes most engine swaps and mods I've tried.

Forgot also been in a NA 1zz fully modified @tommyzoom99 car

[Gibla]

Personally have experience with both Honda B18C(Del Sol conversion) and K units in a 2011 CTR - awesome engines, but not a huge amount of torque, thus essential to be in the right gear or else(probably similar to the 2zz) 

I was close to writing/posing a question to you all last night

What are the most cost-effective options to achieve 190-200bhp in a '2' + itemise the pros/cons of the driving characteristics of each of the avenues....I realise this is hijacking the thread somewhat, so tell me to b.off if needs be

[1979scotte]

Personally have experience with both Honda B18C(Del Sol conversion) and K units in a 2011 CTR - awesome engines, but not a huge amount of torque, thus essential to be in the right gear or else(probably similar to the 2zz) 

I was close to writing/posing a question to you all

What are the most cost-effective options to achieve 190-200bhp in a '2' + itemise the pros/cons of the driving characteristics of each of the avenues....I realise this is hijacking the thread somewhat, so tell me to b.off if needs be

The most cost effective way would be to buy a car with a tte turbo kit installed or buy a secondhand kit and have the turbo refurbished for piece of mind.
The turbos are so small there isn't lag as such and they only run 7 ish psi so no real strain on the engine. And obviously it's all toyota spec.