MOT failure

[Joesson]

Rhys reported Ravenol lasted 2years for him and ate the seals. Any more long term experience?

Did he report that on here?

[Newbie57]

Chassis on mine has nearly 100k miles. Probably on the original fill

[Newbie57]

Rhys reported Ravenol lasted 2years for him and ate the seals. Any more long term experience?

Did he report that on here?

Dont know I have been chatting to him on line

[Joesson]

Incompatible fluids will damage seals, as will flushing / cleaning with an incompatible fluid. As will  prolonged usage.

[Newbie57]

https://www.spyderchat.com/threads/testing-the-oem-toyota-eh-ps-fluid.148522/

Some discussion on spyder chat

[ManInDandism]

Rhys reported Ravenol lasted 2years for him and ate the seals. Any more long term experience?

Did he report that on here?

Wasn't that related to the Ravenol fluid for the SMT system?  Seems to be major issue with that report here and elsewhere. 

[Newbie57]

Rhys reported Ravenol lasted 2years for him and ate the seals. Any more long term experience?

Did he report that on here?

Wasn't that related to the Ravenol fluid for the SMT system?  Seems to be major issue with that report here and elsewhere. 

No this was PAS.

[Carolyn]

Rhys reported Ravenol lasted 2years for him and ate the seals. Any more long term experience?

Did he report that on here?

Wasn't that related to the Ravenol fluid for the SMT system?  Seems to be major issue with that report here and elsewhere. 

No this was PAS.

-
I am pretty sure that it was SMT.

[1979scotte]

Has @Dev got any opinions?

[Dev]

Has @Dev got any opinions?

I remember that link it was for PS fluid. Good information and it was determined Nissan E-PSF Electric Power Steering Fluid fluid is a good choice based on analysis. 
 
 I would still try to  find the Toyota PS even if its expensive. You don't change your PS fluid that often and it lasts a very long time. If anything the PS fluid is not the failure point on the PS pump. I believe its accumulated dust and the windings going out eventually. With most motors of this type the pump motor has a life.

 If you people only knew how much better it is to take the PS pump out of the circuit and go manual.
 Most people think its the same as disabling the pump which is too hard but taking the pump out and connecting the lines feels exactly like a short ratio manual rack. The feedback you get from the steering wheel is tremendous, feels like a different car.

[Carolyn]

With my experience of materials compatibility issues when developing our rocket engines, I can attest that a fluid which eats seals will do it in a lot less than the three years that my power steering pump has endured with Ravenol EPS fluid in it. 

Whatever the story is behind the issue raised - I doubt it is as simple as stated.

[Newbie57]

Carolyn, I wasn't  doubting you. I worked in the seal industry for many years. We were doing testing for the ZETEC engine crankshaft seals. Just before production start the oil company changed the additive package without Fords or our knowledge. Suddenly we had multiple failures. You can imagine the panic and pressure. It was 2 weeks before the oil company owned up.

[Dev]

Just one thing I want to amend. The PS pump will fail if you use incompatible fluid.
There are other electro hydraulic fluids on the market that list compatibility with the Toyota fluid and so far haven't shown to cause any failure to the system.

There have been anecdotal reports  where the dealer topped off the fluid with normal power steering fluid when the car was under warranty and the pumps went out in a matter of weeks or months.

[Dev]

Carolyn, I wasn't  doubting you. I worked in the seal industry for many years. We were doing testing for the ZETEC engine crankshaft seals. Just before production start the oil company changed the additive package without Fords or our knowledge. Suddenly we had multiple failures. You can imagine the panic and pressure. It was 2 weeks before the oil company owned up.

This sort of thing happens, rarely but when it does its expensive. Usually someone that wants to cut corners to save money or they try to make one universal fluid to fill the needs of multiple applications.

 A good example is  GL5 transmission fluid that claims GL4 backwards compatibility but ended up eating the yellow metals in older transmissions because of the sulfur additives. 

I like to stick to original fluid whenever possible because the manufactures formulations are often times better with no compromises for the kind of materials that are used. 

[ManInDandism]

Has @Dev got any opinions?

I remember that link it was for PS fluid. Good information and it was determined was Nissan E-PSF Electric Power Steering Fluid fluid was a good choice based on analysis. 
 
 I would still try to  find the Toyota PS even if its expensive. You don't change your PS fluid that often and it lasts a very long time. If anything the PS fluid is not the failure point on the PS pump. I believe its accumulated dust and the windings going out eventually. With most motors of this type the pump motor has a life.

 If you people only knew how much better it is to take the PS pump out of the circuit and go manual.
 Most people think its the same as disabling the pump which is too hard but taking the pump out and connecting the lines feels exactly like a short ratio manual rack. The feedback you get from the steering wheel is tremendous, feels like a different car.

I thought that the whole reason behind the debate was that Toyota PS is/was discontinued meaning that you wouldn't be able to find it regardless of how much it cost.  So it was about trying to find an adequate replacement.

[Newbie57]

They have an 81250 p/n that is for the MR2. Dealer gave me a price and delivery

[Dev]

Has @Dev got any opinions?

I remember that link it was for PS fluid. Good information and it was determined was Nissan E-PSF Electric Power Steering Fluid fluid was a good choice based on analysis. 
 
 I would still try to  find the Toyota PS even if its expensive. You don't change your PS fluid that often and it lasts a very long time. If anything the PS fluid is not the failure point on the PS pump. I believe its accumulated dust and the windings going out eventually. With most motors of this type the pump motor has a life.

 If you people only knew how much better it is to take the PS pump out of the circuit and go manual.
 Most people think its the same as disabling the pump which is too hard but taking the pump out and connecting the lines feels exactly like a short ratio manual rack. The feedback you get from the steering wheel is tremendous, feels like a different car.

I thought that the whole reason behind the debate was that Toyota PS is/was discontinued meaning that you wouldn't be able to find it regardless of how much it cost.  So it was about trying to find an adequate replacement.

Every now and then the stuff shows up on EBay or somewhere in the Middle East with shipping. 
 I have seen warehouses clear out their forgotten inventory and some of it shows up from time to time. 
 I would pay though the nose if it was available and sell the other half that to a member to recuperate costs. If not I would take a chance on the alternatives as a last resort. What actually happened in the interim is some people wanted to save money so they used alternative stuff.
 
 However some fluid substitutions turned out to be a disaster for the SMT guys that tried to substitute with fluids that claimed compatibility but ended up ruining their units. 

[Gaz mr-s]

/quote]

I don't know who, but D.Sloan does of a guy who's SMT was ruined by the Ravenol.  Ravenol denied it.

[Joesson]

https://www.spyderchat.com/threads/testing-the-oem-toyota-eh-ps-fluid.148522/

Some discussion on spyder chat

Those discussions amounted to 7 "pages" of debate and reports of a Spyderchat Member funded analysis of the OE fluid and various considered options. There was a lot of toing and froing but to my reading the end result was that Toyota we're no longer interested but that if old stock could be found then use it.
The alternatives were found to be a Nissan branded fluid and a fluid produced by Ravenol.
No clarity from Nissan about usage on Toyota by Nissan, understandable.
Ravenol claimed compatibility with Toyota and Nissan spec fluids.
The "problem" with Ravenol product was related to SMT fluid not the steering pump fluid.
My "thoughts" align with @Carolyn 's experience, that is Ravenol.

[Dev]

/quote]

I don't know who, but D.Sloan does of a guy who's SMT was ruined by the Ravenol.  Ravenol denied it.

There is a guy on my side (cyclehead) that has tested various fluids on the SMT seals. What he found out is Ravenol made them swell. 
I believe some people had success with DOT4 fluid but I don't really know as the first thing I would do is get it converted to manual. I know a member that has a very low millage SMT that sat in his garage for a long time where the SMT pump failed. Time is what eventually destroys everything especially stuff that use rubber seals.

[Joesson]

If we have a problem with this it is with Toyota. It was reported on Spyderchat that Toyota USA had been approached on the subject but there was no helpful response.

[Joesson]

Interestingly we do have the option of "converting" the system to unassisted as @Dev and @Petrus have.
I'm sure that I am not the only one on here that started driving before PAS was a thing and " elderly" as I am I believe I could still cope with the effort on a 2.
Not sure of the legality / MOT compliance in the UK but I do know that the PAS system can't be seen without removing the covers.
PS
This would still require the presence of fluid but there would not be a ( expensive) pump to replace.

[Ardent]

This and previous posts have got me thinking. Do I? Don't I?

That, and in a chilligirl thread sidetrack manner, I would really like a smaller steering wheel.

[Joesson]

This and previous posts have got me thinking. Do I? Do I not?

That, and in a chilligirl thread sidetrack manner, I would really like a smaller steering wheel.

I am aware that @Petrus has removed the steering pump and fitted an aftermarket steering wheel. The diameter of the wheel I know not. He may be able to advise on the additional steering effort with his particular arrangement.
I do recall driving a 60's Anglia, in period, with a very small steering wheel and found that not to my liking.

[Dev]

Interestingly we do have the option of "converting" the system to unassisted as @Dev and @Petrus have.
I'm sure that I am not the only one on here that started driving before PAS was a thing and " elderly" as I am I believe I could still cope with the effort on a 2.
Not sure of the legality / MOT compliance in the UK but I do know that the PAS system can't be seen without removing the covers.
PS
This would still require the presence of fluid but there would not be a ( expensive) pump to replace.

What some people do is remove the rack, drain the fluid and grease the rack and pinion. I didn't think there was a need for it. Just looping the lines has done well over 10 years with the original fluid. No leaks. You just need to keep a pocket of air in the lines so its compressible. Makes it easy to turn that I often forget its manual now. The most interesting thing about it is, it makes the car feel more stable at speed because whatever bump it hits feels dampened with less oscillations. Straight is straight no wondering. 
If it was a different car that had the weight of the engine over the front wheels it might be an issue but considering how light the car is, its not that bad and it feels more gokart like.

If you keep your car long enough this might be the fait of all these cars once the PS pump goes out.