Sway bars, anti roll bars

[Petrus]

I cant see a scenario where they are beneficial for anything but the kit.

They are to correct the effect of the front being lowered more than the rear i.e. the respective roll centres. It is ´roll centre tuning´. As such they are beneficial for any modification resulting in rake.

[Petrus]

I think you actually may have solved the reason for the dog bones. 

Was reflecting on that.
Kinda cool no?!
Almost 20 years later, a Dutchman confined by Covid19 in the Andalucian mountains solves the dog bones enigma.

:-)

[1979scotte]

I think you actually may have solved the reason for the dog bones. 

Was reflecting on that.
Kinda cool no?!
Almost 20 years later, a Dutchman confined by Covid19 in the Andalucian mountains solves the dog bones enigma.

:-)

Oh Dev his head is big enough already.
Thats why he needs a drop top wouldn't fit in a coupe.

[Dev]

I think you actually may have solved the reason for the dog bones. 

Was reflecting on that.
Kinda cool no?!
Almost 20 years later, a Dutchman confined by Covid19 in the Andalucian mountains solves the dog bones enigma.

:-)

Oh Dev his head is big enough already.
Thats why he needs a drop top wouldn't fit in a coupe.

Sometimes flattery followed by a plausible assertion is the best way to have someone see the same reality.
 
 For many years some were adding the dog bones under the impression they fixed the roll center for other setups other then the TRD until someone wise enough went against popular opinion. On car forums its easy for everyone to get lulled into misguided  concepts especially when they complicate the math to appear that its rooted in some kind of academic wizardry but its usually the simplest and most obvious explanation that is usually correct.   

[Petrus]

Added numbers for my car (incl. driver and half tank of gas) with the Sportivo set in the formula for the natural suspension frequency and arrive at:
1.42 Hz. front and 1.85 Hz. rear (130%)
from OEM (on my lighter car)
1.23 and 1.46 (118%)
OEM weight
1.10 and 1.38 (125%)

[Petrus]

The Whitelines are under.

Stiff setting up front, soft rear; equivalent to the Sportivo bars.
Did a short test run on moist to wet roads in a chilly drizzle. In one word; confidence inspiring!
I am very content with how the car handles now, véry.
I máy go a hole stiffer at one side at rear but then... maybe not.

[Dev]

You should take it somewhere safe like an open parking lot so that you can take it to the limit to see how it behaves at normal speeds and then tune to where it's safe. I tuned my Whitline to where it will oversteer with enough warning to recover.

[Petrus]

Started with the ´safe´ TRD very mild initial understeer as before and will take it from there. I will need to factor in the increased rear traction from about 50/60 km/h.
Sofar roads are ccccold and not dry.
At the coast now. Will go back over the mountain roads.
Will take my time to xperience the set up.

[Petrus]

This afternoon set the rear bars one hole stiffer; the second hole, that is 25% stiffer than the softest hole.
If that prooves too much, I can go one hole softer at one side only, halving the step. And hey, can be that I like the softest best 

[Petrus]

Few things illustrate as clearly that a car is a single complex system as sway bars do: Change the rear bar and it affects the front 
Übercool I think.

[Dev]

Few things illustrate as clearly that a car is a single complex system as sway bars do: Change the rear bar and it affects the front 
Übercool I think.

 It is but, its still a coarse way of adjusting a cars behavior and I would say the last best way to account for tires and driving style.  The downside with going too aggressive with the settings is losing part of the independent suspension when the sway bars are tested at the limits on less than ideal road conditions.
 Striking a balance is important. Fortunately you have a properly researched set of dampers which will keep the swaybar adjustment consistent. Also keep in mind that the demands of the tires have gone up tremendously since its being pushed to the edge of traction earlier.  You might not notice this so much in the dry but it becomes very apparent in the wet.


 

[Petrus]

It is but, its still a coarse way of adjusting a cars behavior


 

I´d  say fine tuning the traction balance as part of the overall set up.

You need the correct springs for ride hight, the suspension frequency and balance of it all with de damping to match the springs and use. The sway bars are a finishing touch to the traction balance.

That observed, for them to have effect they must be strong/stiff enough relative to the spring rate (which will increase the frequency), just not so strong to noticeably up the spring rate. Bit of a catch that.
Good thing Toyota set the bar ;-) at the right hight with the Sportivo bars.
I have only gone one notch up at the rear. Remember my car is a good deal lightened which affects things a bit. P.e. the suspension frequency is higher but the effect of sway bars less because there is less roll to counteract. Etc.

As you may have read, first impressions were on wet roads. Since then changing conditions reigned or is that rained?!  ;-)

Do note that sway bars do NOT reduce the overall traction availeble. They just shiít part of it around.
If set up correctly they reduce the amount of traction loss  to tyre load sensitivity due to roll, weight transfer, i.e. relatively incréase availeble traction.

Today splendidly sunny. Not going to push the envelope though; going for X-mas diner with Antequera gf and her kids.

p.s. The car drives só nicely and well balanced now, I could NOT resist nailing it through just a few corners and over a handful of roundabouts.  I loved it as it came in OEM guise and lóve it now :-)