Hello. Power steering not working.

Started by Bad Dog, November 24, 2020, 21:31

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Bad Dog

Evening everybody, Ive just bought a 2005 MR2 roadster. It has a few faults that need sorting but looking good so far. The main problem i have is that the power steering is not working. the fluid in the resevoir is black and i have got hold of some fresh to change it out. However, the motor itself is not working. im planning to take the pump off clean it out and try to get it working on the bench but need to know which terminals i should apply the 12 volts to to see if the motor will turn ? i will also remove the bottom of the pump and clean out any dust that can acumulate in the motor. any hints or tips welcome  ;)

Gaz mr-s

Sorry, can't help you with testing it, but just to make sure you got the correct type fluid.....
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Total-Fluide-Synthetic-Electro-Hydraulic-fluid/dp/B006XGDKPC

Bad Dog

I've got some Ravenol E-psf should be OK I think. Hss to be better than what's in there now 😊

Joesson

Not too many reports on here of ps pump failure. If you have just bought the car maybe the seller should be fixing it?

Joesson

I thought the car was pretty much undriveable  in that condition.

1979scotte

Quote from: Bad Dog on November 24, 2020, 22:04I've got some Ravenol E-psf should be OK I think. Hss to be better than what's in there now 😊

Wouldn't be the first pump to fail because the fluid is changed for the wrong stuff.

I had to change the pump on my 2000 plate last year just stopped for no apparent reason.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Free Ukraine 🇺🇦

Gaz mr-s

Quote from: Bad Dog on November 24, 2020, 22:04I've got some Ravenol E-psf should be OK I think. Hss to be better than what's in there now 😊

Yes, correct type.

Joesson

Quote from: 1979scotte on November 24, 2020, 22:29
Quote from: Bad Dog on November 24, 2020, 22:04I've got some Ravenol E-psf should be OK I think. Hss to be better than what's in there now 😊

Wouldn't be the first pump to fail because the fluid is changed for the wrong stuff.

I had to change the pump on my 2000 plate last year just stopped for no apparent reason.
Is the car driveable if the pump stops?

1979scotte

Quote from: Joesson on November 24, 2020, 22:44
Quote from: 1979scotte on November 24, 2020, 22:29
Quote from: Bad Dog on November 24, 2020, 22:04I've got some Ravenol E-psf should be OK I think. Hss to be better than what's in there now 😊

Wouldn't be the first pump to fail because the fluid is changed for the wrong stuff.

I had to change the pump on my 2000 plate last year just stopped for no apparent reason.
Is the car driveable if the pump stops?

Yes.
Its not easy though
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Free Ukraine 🇺🇦

Joesson

Quote from: 1979scotte on November 24, 2020, 22:53
Quote from: Joesson on November 24, 2020, 22:44
Quote from: 1979scotte on November 24, 2020, 22:29
Quote from: Bad Dog on November 24, 2020, 22:04I've got some Ravenol E-psf should be OK I think. Hss to be better than what's in there now 😊

Wouldn't be the first pump to fail because the fluid is changed for the wrong stuff.

I had to change the pump on my 2000 plate last year just stopped for no apparent reason.
Is the car driveable if the pump stops?

Yes.
Its not easy though

Our Spanish mate Petrus won't be having that problem!

Topdownman

Mine stopped working until the car had been driven for some while and restarted when it would start working again and it turned out that I had a weep from a connection and the fluid had got too low until it was hot and expanded.

I fitted a new connector and did a simple flush by sucking out what I could from the top and then adding ravenol and it started working again.

Yep, horrible to drive like that!
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Winner of the Numb bum award 2017
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Bad Dog

Quote from: Joesson on November 24, 2020, 22:24Not too many reports on here of ps pump failure. If you have just bought the car maybe the seller should be fixing it?
I knew there was an issue when I bought it but got a good deal so I'll sort it

Carolyn

Very often it can be brought back to life my taking the 'can' off and exposing the motor.  Then a good blow-out with an airline and very light lube.  This can be done on the car.

Crap tends to build up inside over time.
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

Beachbum957

Here is a link that may help

https://www.spyderchat.com/threads/ps-light-power-steering-problems-try-this.50843/page-2#post-1226761

One thing not mentioned is to mark the "can" (motor housing) orientation before you remove it.  With 3 bolts, it is possible to get the housing back on wrong.  In one position, the pump will run backwards, in another it will run slowly and overheat.  There is only one position that is correct.

Bad Dog

Quote from: Beachbum957 on November 25, 2020, 13:01Here is a link that may help

https://www.spyderchat.com/threads/ps-light-power-steering-problems-try-this.50843/page-2#post-1226761

One thing not mentioned is to mark the "can" (motor housing) orientation before you remove it.  With 3 bolts, it is possible to get the housing back on wrong.  In one position, the pump will run backwards, in another it will run slowly and overheat.  There is only one position that is correct.

Oooooo good to know, I'm going to have a go at this on Friday 😉

Bad Dog

Quote from: Carolyn on November 25, 2020, 11:14Very often it can be brought back to life my taking the 'can' off and exposing the motor.  Then a good blow-out with an airline and very light lube.  This can be done on the car.

Crap tends to build up inside over time.

What would constitute a light lube ?

Carolyn

Quote from: Bad Dog on November 26, 2020, 13:54
Quote from: Carolyn on November 25, 2020, 11:14Very often it can be brought back to life my taking the 'can' off and exposing the motor.  Then a good blow-out with an airline and very light lube.  This can be done on the car.

Crap tends to build up inside over time.

What would constitute a light lube ?
Certainly not a spray-lube of any kind as it would attract filth. Perhaps a droplet of light machine oil on moving parts?
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

Bad Dog

Ok , so had a go at this today. Took the pump off to take it to the bench to strip. Split the case an there was quite a bit of crud came out, gave it all a good blow through and reassembled. Refit back on the car. moment of truth plugged it back in and Voila it started to work (which it hasn't done before) refilled the reservoir, lock to lock a few times. I had the return pipe detached and aimed into a container to collect the old fluid. Steering was starting to feel a bit lighter. off for a test drive :-). Unfortunately no difference bugger. checked under the front bonnet fluid everywhere and the pump isn't working again double bugger !!!!  Too dark out there now so beer time and take another look tomorrow.
Has anybody got any ideas why the pump might work then not etc ?

Bad Dog

#18
Quote from: Carolyn on November 26, 2020, 13:57
Quote from: Bad Dog on November 26, 2020, 13:54
Quote from: Carolyn on November 25, 2020, 11:14Very often it can be brought back to life my taking the 'can' off and exposing the motor.  Then a good blow-out with an airline and very light lube.  This can be done on the car.

Crap tends to build up inside over time.
C

What would constitute a light lube ?
Certainly not a spray-lube of any kind as it would attract filth. Perhaps a droplet of light machine oil on moving parts?

Could you use brake /clutch cleaning spray on the motor to get rid of all the dust in the nooks and cranies or would that ruin it ?

Carolyn

Quote from: Bad Dog on November 28, 2020, 09:51
Quote from: Carolyn on November 26, 2020, 13:57
Quote from: Bad Dog on November 26, 2020, 13:54
Quote from: Carolyn on November 25, 2020, 11:14Very often it can be brought back to life my taking the 'can' off and exposing the motor.  Then a good blow-out with an airline and very light lube.  This can be done on the car.

Crap tends to build up inside over time.
C

What would constitute a light lube ?
Certainly not a spray-lube of any kind as it would attract filth. Perhaps a droplet of light machine oil on moving parts?

Could you use brake /clutch cleaning spray on the motor to get rid of all the dust in the nooks and cranies or would that ruin it ?

That would probably be ok.  I'd tend to favour electrical contact cleaner.
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

Bad Dog

Quote from: Carolyn on November 28, 2020, 09:59
Quote from: Bad Dog on November 28, 2020, 09:51
Quote from: Carolyn on November 26, 2020, 13:57
Quote from: Bad Dog on November 26, 2020, 13:54
Quote from: Carolyn on November 25, 2020, 11:14Very often it can be brought back to life my taking the 'can' off and exposing the motor.  Then a good blow-out with an airline and very light lube.  This can be done on the car.

Crap tends to build up inside over time.
C

What would constitute a light lube ?
Certainly not a spray-lube of any kind as it would attract filth. Perhaps a droplet of light machine oil on moving parts?

Could you use brake /clutch cleaning spray on the motor to get rid of all the dust in the nooks and cranies or would that ruin it ?

That would probably be ok.  I'd tend to favour electrical contact cleaner.

Oh yeah forgot about that, I have some. It's going to get it lol

Beachbum957

Quote from: Bad Dog on November 28, 2020, 09:51Could you use brake /clutch cleaning spray on the motor to get rid of all the dust in the nooks and cranies or would that ruin it ?
It may not hurt the electrical parts, but it may cause the housing o-ring to swell.  That o-ring isn't listed as available, so you would need to find a universal part.

If the housing was put on with the wrong orientation, the motor could seem to run OK, but could run backward and then the fluid would fill the reservoir and pump out the cap.  If the motor ran OK and pushed the fluid out the return line as it should, then it is probably together correctly. In that case, look for other leaks.

Bad Dog

Ok,
   quick update. pulled the motor halves apart again i was going  to use brake/clutch cleaner spray to get all the dust out of the nooks and crannies', however, after a recommendation from Carolyn who suggested Electrical contact cleaner I used that instead. Lathered it with quite a bit so that it was soaked and let it do its stuff. Once it had dried off reassembled an went round the block to see if there was any difference ? pulling off the drive something felt different but once on the move it was back to the normal shit. parked back on the drive and went out with the dogs. when I got back turned it all on again and thought id try lock to lock a few times and things started to feel better, the pump was still working which was a positive so another test drive beaconed. Sweet it appears to be sorted, Happy days.

When the motor was apart I took a good look around and noticed quite a bit of scoring on the commutators, bushes were looking good plenty of meat on them so not sure how long it will last but loved my first drive of an MR2 with the steering working as it should  ;D

Carolyn

Good progress!  I suspect the commutator could do with a bit of TLC.

If it misbehaves again, I would suggest a polish with some fine wet and dry paper.
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

Bad Dog

Quote from: Carolyn on November 28, 2020, 18:40Good progress!  I suspect the commutator could do with a bit of TLC.

If it misbehaves again, I would suggest a polish with some fine wet and dry paper.

Think they're a bit beyond polishing . I've found a few motor rebuild companies locally and may get advice from them. It would be nice to get it rebuilt like new and forget about it 

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