Still can't bring myself to fit my meisters....

[Dev]

Thoroughly swamped! All the detail I could ask for which is great.
All this has solidly confirmed I don't want them on my car, I'll try and sell them eventually, if I ever reach the post count to get into the parts for sale section...
... which as a professional lurker is likely to be a while! 😂

And maybe at some point even get round to actually getting the work done!
Expect an update any time within the next decade or so 👍🏻

You are only 4 posts away from the sales section so hopefully by spring you  will have enough posts (note I didnt say which spring!).

What I take from all the posts above is that the move to coilovers is one you should do when you are sure they are what you want for your car and driving style/plans and not as an alternative for a cheaper suspension refresh than replacing everything with oem.

The lowering springs vs standard springs is a whole different debate but not as contentious possibly as most manufacturers do offer lowering springs as an option which validates them a little. If you dont want the look of lowering springs then you are probably safest with the standard ones.

A suspension refresh is something that every 2 needs though if it hasnt been done!

Let us know how you get on.

 I can only speak for what I have written but I have asserted that we should not lump in all coilovers in the same basket.  It is the cheap Taiwanese coiloves that give other coilovers choices a bad name particularly ones that are specifically made for the track.
   There are also those that lump in race/track coilovers which are monotube design in the mix which do not make for a good street ride for obvious reasons that they are way too stiff.

  If you look at the street coilovers options for this car they are not too different to the OEM being that they are twin tube designed which are far more durable and were made to be comfortable for a street driven application on real roads. They will be firmer then OEM obviously but the way they dampen the road will be like they are soaking up the bumps and stabilizing the car better than OEM. They also inspire confidence making the drive that much more enjoyable.

 It might seem expensive but if you are looking for real value nothing beats a proper street coilover from the manufactures that have actual experience in knowing what the customer will be satisfied with. Ones like mine had three independent from each other testers during its development that rate them for street comfort before they are sold.   

[Petrus]

Not disagreeing with any of the arguments you provide persé Dev.
As several have observed on several threads, the price of a set ot really good coil overs has also has anóther perspective; the value of the MR2 Spyder and that of say a Boxster.
In the UK especially, the ZZW30 is particularly cheap to buy; on average between a third to half of here in Spain per example. Just look at what Carolyn sold her well sorted Eaton compressor car for! That does change choices even though the argument persé is the same.

[1979scotte]

Not disagreeing with any of the arguments you provide persé Dev.
As several have observed on several threads, the price of a set ot really good coil overs has also has anóther perspective; the value of the MR2 Spyder and that of say a Boxster.
In the UK especially, the ZZW30 is particularly cheap to buy; on average between a third to half of here in Spain per example. Just look at what Carolyn sold her well sorted Eaton compressor car for! That does change choices even though the argument persé is the same.

Spain is silly expensive for secondhand cars.
Things we would scrap here are still worth 1000 euro.

[Petrus]

Spain is silly expensive for secondhand cars.
Things we would scrap here are still worth 1000 euro.

Silly is basically caused by a price cartel by the breakers:
The average age of the car on Spanish roads is well over 13 years so the breakers a more used source than OEM.
In general used parts from the breakers are half the new price.
Thus the bottom value of an old car is in the parts.
This automatically works upwards.

[Dev]

Not disagreeing with any of the arguments you provide persé Dev.
As several have observed on several threads, the price of a set ot really good coil overs has also has anóther perspective; the value of the MR2 Spyder and that of say a Boxster.
In the UK especially, the ZZW30 is particularly cheap to buy; on average between a third to half of here in Spain per example. Just look at what Carolyn sold her well sorted Eaton compressor car for! That does change choices even though the argument persé is the same.

  I do not see spending $2k on a proper set of street coilovers that have been researched for the road as an expensive option when the alternatives is an incorrect budget option that is worse than OEM. There is no in between in this regard and therefore no compromises. It would be nice if these Taiwanese companies  would copy a proper street coilover but it seems like to me they have a number of tubes to choose from which they apply to many other applications by welding the mounts for each car and compromising the valving.

In regards to this car it is cheap to buy now but it's certainly not a cheap car. It requires high quality parts and tires. Nothing has changed just because the car is old, only the owners that want to cheap out and make it worse in a downwards spiral. I have seen many that do and it is depressing seeing these cars falling apart but at the same time I see many restorations where the owner is spending a good amount of money to keep this car timeless in their custodianship. 
 
The only real budget option is the Koni inserts. They fall way short because they have to have less shock oil than the OEM making them limited in many respects of not being a great option for the money. 
It would be better to wait and save up for great set of dampers.

A good set of dampers for this car is the single best modification over all modifications. Sure power is good also but it gets old once you get use to it.  With proper suspension the fun to drive factor is many folds better once the bottle neck of the OEM suspension is removed. This is where the true potentials can be exploited and the car is transformed to one that you only find in sports cars costing many times this one. For the price it is excellent value with great returns.

[Petrus]

Ideal and real at odds Dev.
A bit like what Johann Wolfgang von Goethe wrote about love and marriage 

[1979scotte]

@Dev

So what do you consider to be the quality options?

We know bc and Meister R they're both cheap.
Tein are dearer.
KW make some I believe which are quite pricey.
Who else currently makes after market suspension for our cars?

[Dev]

@Dev

So what do you consider to be the quality options?

We know bc and Meister R they're both cheap.
Tein are dearer.
KW make some I believe which are quite pricey.
Who else currently makes after market suspension for our cars?

  At one time there was four properly researched street coilovers available.
 
  1. JIC Magic
  2. Tein Super Street
  3. Cusco zero two
  4. KW varient 3

   Now we have
   1. KW varient 3
   2. Cusco Zero two new version. It appears they have revamped to make them better
   3. Fortune. Im a little mixed about this set being mono tube design but apparently they got the valving right and people say they are comfortable for the street. They also have issues with camber adjustment being restricted compared to others.

     The KWs have the advantage of being double adjustable but because of some European restrictions they do not come with pillow mounts for the fronts. No worries as you can get aftermarket pillow mounts with camber adjustments from Cusco and they work great together.

  The Cusco Zero two new version have the pillow mounts and have been updated to be better. Its quiet interesting that they are only five position adjustable which is true to actual settings. All of those cheap coilovers with 22 or 35 points of adjustment is a gimmick. Generally speaking the correct adjustment for these cheaper street coilovers like the Teins are usually within three if the damper is tuned for the car. The Tein is a great set but their marketing is not so good.

 I had a chat with Boris a few days ago and he reported that he is liking his Cusco Zero 2.  If I was in the market today I would probably go for the KWs for their double adjustability and the research that went into them. There is a tuner that I respect that deals primarily with our cars and has commented on how comfortable KWs are compared to everything else.
 
 

[Dev]

 I would like to provide a little more information.
You cant do much if the design of the damper is flawed from its foundation even if you change the valving. As I mentioned before cartridge options are not ideal because they will have less shock oil since they have to  fit in the limited space of the body.  One of the many reasons why the Taiwanese options are not good is primarily because they are cartridge struts. This is why OEM KYB is a better strut although Koni cartages are not bad but still not ideal.

Normally I would like to post an independent source for information but I believe these two articles by Tein are correct. If I was a manufacture I would also point out the differences between my product and my competitors which is easy to understand.

https://www.tein.com/classroom/cartridge/index.html

 To summarize shock oil volume is key to a street coilovers comfort and its performance. When you spend more you get both and when you spend less you get choppy performance. Cheap coilovers might feel good because its stiff but stiff does not make a car handle better and in many cases it can handle worse.

https://www.tein.co.jp/e/special/ni_toryu/

 Here we see that stroke is important which is the advantage of a twin tube design in regards to comfort. The manufactures I mentioned use twin tube overwhelmingly for its street applications because they are durable for real roads like the OEM. They might not have the best shock dynos because its a trade off for longevity which is fine because we are not on a race track trying to win trophies.
 What I often find are those that race will look at features that make a race coilover not understanding that the street is a completely different animal which requires an entirely different approach. 




 

[R.Sointment]

I keep balancing the "investment in mr2 vs price of a Boxster" equation in my head.

Whilst it probably is a bit more civilised, and does have that lovely flat six, it's also a chunk heavier and if you're going to abuse and or modify it you're quickly going to run into the territory of "why not buy marginally more expensive car x in the first place".
I don't know what a rebuild of one of those lovely engines runs to, but I bet it hurts when you have find out unexpectedly.
I guess this is the nature of the habit ultimately - I always tell people it would be cheaper to have a crack habit, just before their eyes glaze over.

A really well sorted mr2 with a 6 cylinder engine note, not to mention characteristics, is inherently more appealing than anything short of one of the fancier, much newer Boxsters (and with their endlessly long gear ratios and even greater size and heft probably still not).

If I think of it as two thirds of an Exige for a fraction of the price, a modern convertible Stratos after a few beers and kebabs, or just the perfect recipe for a sports car which I'm not sure I'd ever tire of it starts to look a bit like reasonable investment....

Back to suspension, if I could stretch to a set of KWs it'd be a no brainer. Unfortunately and for the foreseeable future - no chance.

I am ever so ever so slowly creeping my way up to the post count for entry into the for sale section - not only am I a seasoned forum lurker, but I wouldn't want to look like some profiteering capitalist scumbag now, would I.
So watch that space, coilovers for sale... one day 😂 might have to get the earth round the sun a few more times first.

[1979scotte]

If you go for a V6 you must have some sort of height adjustable suspension stock suspension grounds out on a spirited drive.

I'm pretty confident I should have bought a boxster S.
With hindsight I should of known I wouldn't of been happy with a 200bhp motor and going forced induction was going to be trouble.

I suppose I paint a bleak picture for people thinking about mods and swaps. I feel that everyone shouts really loudly when it's all going well and then quietly disappears off the face of the planet when something goes wrong.

[Dev]

I keep balancing the "investment in mr2 vs price of a Boxster" equation in my head.

Whilst it probably is a bit more civilised, and does have that lovely flat six, it's also a chunk heavier and if you're going to abuse and or modify it you're quickly going to run into the territory of "why not buy marginally more expensive car x in the first place".
I don't know what a rebuild of one of those lovely engines runs to, but I bet it hurts when you have find out unexpectedly.
I guess this is the nature of the habit ultimately - I always tell people it would be cheaper to have a crack habit, just before their eyes glaze over.

A really well sorted mr2 with a 6 cylinder engine note, not to mention characteristics, is inherently more appealing than anything short of one of the fancier, much newer Boxsters (and with their endlessly long gear ratios and even greater size and heft probably still not).

If I think of it as two thirds of an Exige for a fraction of the price, a modern convertible Stratos after a few beers and kebabs, or just the perfect recipe for a sports car which I'm not sure I'd ever tire of it starts to look a bit like reasonable investment....

Back to suspension, if I could stretch to a set of KWs it'd be a no brainer. Unfortunately and for the foreseeable future - no chance.

I am ever so ever so slowly creeping my way up to the post count for entry into the for sale section - not only am I a seasoned forum lurker, but I wouldn't want to look like some profiteering capitalist scumbag now, would I.
So watch that space, coilovers for sale... one day 😂 might have to get the earth round the sun a few more times first.

  I was in the same position a very long time ago willing to compromise on a set of Koni inserts. I just saved over a period of time and got exactly what I wanted because as I mentioned it is the single best modification for this car. I have driven many miles on these struts and then had them rebuilt for a very low cost with great customer support. Once you buy into a good coilover system it can be with you for a very long time as an investment. It depends on how long you plan on keeping your car. 

 This car is in the sweet spot of ownership being that older cars prior to this generation require more maintenance and less reliability. The new cars having far too much complexity, weight and ownership costs. With inflation expected to go though the roof this year these cars will exponentially go up in value because it's a car that would never be sold today so I consider it a way of circumventing the rules especially with the flexibility of of cheap engine swaps.

[thetyrant]

I would really like to try some KW V3 on mine next, all depends how this year pans out with track time etc before i make that investment, also KW did tell me the V3 internal bushings are not durable for heavy track use with sticky rubber but its not a biig issue rebuilding as long as they last a decent amount of time, i dont run mega sticky rubber so hopefully wouldnt be an issue for me.

In the meantime the Konis i have on at moment do a sterling job for what they are, maybe some custom firmer springs next or just convert housing to take a coilover spring which was my original plan if i get around to it!, i just keep getting tempted by the bolt on aspect of the KW kit

[Dev]

I would really like to try some KW V3 on mine next, all depends how this year pans out with track time etc before i make that investment, also KW did tell me the V3 internal bushings are not durable for heavy track use with sticky rubber but its not a biig issue rebuilding as long as they last a decent amount of time, i dont run mega sticky rubber so hopefully wouldnt be an issue for me.

In the meantime the Konis i have on at moment do a sterling job for what they are, maybe some custom firmer springs next or just convert housing to take a coilover spring which was my original plan if i get around to it!, i just keep getting tempted by the bolt on aspect of the KW kit

 I think the Tein Monoflex might be a better fit for you. Although they don't have some of the advantages of being a twin tube design for the street they are reported to be steetable and much better comfort than the BC. This will work well for the tack. 
 The KWs might be too soft for track use out of the box. There have been a few that have changed the spring rates with success since they are double adjustable and I remember hearing the valving can be upgraded by KW.

 I know for my Teins they have a valving and spring option which the rebuilder advised against unless I track the car. It was nice to speak personally by phone to Japanese technician who was rebuilding my coilovers.   

[tets]

Has anyone any experience of the BC ER's - Just read through the thread and did wonder
I'm working 50 yds from BC Racing and twice a day I wonder whether to shout through the window and ask

[Dev]

Has anyone any experience of the BC ER's - Just read through the thread and did wonder
I'm working 50 yds from BC Racing and twice a day I wonder whether to shout through the window and ask

Interesting new option. I like what I see. double adjustable, external oil reservoir which means more shock oil and no cartridge type cheapness. These have the potential to be good for both street and track.

What I don't like is the price for being competitive to the Japanese and European brands which are extensively researched and have a reputation. You should ask them what kind of testing they used to determine the valving and spring rates.   

[thetyrant]

I think the Tein Monoflex might be a better fit for you. Although they don't have some of the advantages of being a twin tube design for the street they are reported to be steetable and much better comfort than the BC. This will work well for the tack. 
 The KWs might be too soft for track use out of the box. There have been a few that have changed the spring rates with success since they are double adjustable and I remember hearing the valving can be upgraded by KW.

 I know for my Teins they have a valving and spring option which the rebuilder advised against unless I track the car. It was nice to speak personally by phone to Japanese technician who was rebuilding my coilovers.   

Ive looked at the Tein Monosport a few times but for our bumpy UK roads which i still do a lot of with the car  i think they will be too uncomfortable due to valving being more track focused, much like the cheaper far east coilovers the damping just isnt compliant enough from those ive spoken to with them.

Agreed KW will be a touch soft for outright track use out the box although better than what i have now and im not one for running a firm setup even on track, however the bushing issue is another concern which for the money they cost is one of main reasons ive not already tried them, i tried to blag a set from KW uk as i work with them on there brakes but no freebies as they were to build up, i did get some discount offered but still to much for me at moment,  i think some firmer springs on Konis will do the job for now as there just isnt a good enough option off the shelf over here at least.

BC ER is one that ive pondered as well, i was at my Ohlins tech centre a few years ago getting some setup done and they had some BC ER on the dyno, the intention was to strip internals and fit Ohlins parts just reusing the BC casing, but the tech guy was quite impressed with the ER valving on dyno at least so decided to run as they were to see how they held up on the car, this was a different car though but i found it interesting all the same.

Suspension is such a personal thing its hard to know what works for you until you try it yourself, ive learnt the hard way to only take what other users say with a pinch of salt, especially if they have recently purchased and still in the honeymoon period lol

[1979scotte]

I think the Tein Monoflex might be a better fit for you. Although they don't have some of the advantages of being a twin tube design for the street they are reported to be steetable and much better comfort than the BC. This will work well for the tack. 
 The KWs might be too soft for track use out of the box. There have been a few that have changed the spring rates with success since they are double adjustable and I remember hearing the valving can be upgraded by KW.

 I know for my Teins they have a valving and spring option which the rebuilder advised against unless I track the car. It was nice to speak personally by phone to Japanese technician who was rebuilding my coilovers.   

Ive looked at the Tein Monosport a few times but for our bumpy UK roads which i still do a lot of with the car  i think they will be too uncomfortable due to valving being more track focused, much like the cheaper far east coilovers the damping just isnt compliant enough from those ive spoken to with them.

Agreed KW will be a touch soft for outright track use out the box although better than what i have now and im not one for running a firm setup even on track, however the bushing issue is another concern which for the money they cost is one of main reasons ive not already tried them, i tried to blag a set from KW uk as i work with them on there brakes but no freebies as they were to build up, i did get some discount offered but still to much for me at moment,  i think some firmer springs on Konis will do the job for now as there just isnt a good enough option off the shelf over here at least.

BC ER is one that ive pondered as well, i was at my Ohlins tech centre a few years ago getting some setup done and they had some BC ER on the dyno, the intention was to strip internals and fit Ohlins parts just reusing the BC casing, but the tech guy was quite impressed with the ER valving on dyno at least so decided to run as they were to see how they held up on the car, this was a different car though but i found it interesting all the same.

Suspension is such a personal thing its hard to know what works for you until you try it yourself, ive learnt the hard way to only take what other users say with a pinch of salt, especially if they have recently purchased and still in the honeymoon period lol

If there is any chance of a discount on KW I would be interested.

[thetyrant]

If there is any chance of a discount on KW I would be interested.

It was a personal discount i was offered being in the trade and helping out with brakes for their track cars sorry, even then it was still well north of a grand and not enough to make me jump at it

There might be scope in doing a bulk/group buy to get discount but i doubt there is enough people on here willing to stump up over £1000 on suspension to make it worthwhile exercise

[Dev]

I think the Tein Monoflex might be a better fit for you. Although they don't have some of the advantages of being a twin tube design for the street they are reported to be steetable and much better comfort than the BC. This will work well for the tack. 
 The KWs might be too soft for track use out of the box. There have been a few that have changed the spring rates with success since they are double adjustable and I remember hearing the valving can be upgraded by KW.

 I know for my Teins they have a valving and spring option which the rebuilder advised against unless I track the car. It was nice to speak personally by phone to Japanese technician who was rebuilding my coilovers.   

Ive looked at the Tein Monosport a few times but for our bumpy UK roads which i still do a lot of with the car  i think they will be too uncomfortable due to valving being more track focused, much like the cheaper far east coilovers the damping just isnt compliant enough from those ive spoken to with them.

Agreed KW will be a touch soft for outright track use out the box although better than what i have now and im not one for running a firm setup even on track, however the bushing issue is another concern which for the money they cost is one of main reasons ive not already tried them, i tried to blag a set from KW uk as i work with them on there brakes but no freebies as they were to build up, i did get some discount offered but still to much for me at moment,  i think some firmer springs on Konis will do the job for now as there just isnt a good enough option off the shelf over here at least.

BC ER is one that ive pondered as well, i was at my Ohlins tech centre a few years ago getting some setup done and they had some BC ER on the dyno, the intention was to strip internals and fit Ohlins parts just reusing the BC casing, but the tech guy was quite impressed with the ER valving on dyno at least so decided to run as they were to see how they held up on the car, this was a different car though but i found it interesting all the same.

Suspension is such a personal thing its hard to know what works for you until you try it yourself, ive learnt the hard way to only take what other users say with a pinch of salt, especially if they have recently purchased and still in the honeymoon period lol

If I could get any discount from KW I would be all over them also. Interesting about the BC ER but I think its too early to know unless we have a few take a chance on them and even then what is their bases of comparison.

  I also take things with a pinch of salt as there is a lot of deceptive information out there with track guys going on endlessly with shock dynos to judge suspension. The dynos don't paint the whole picture unless its done on the car. Also although street designed coilovers generally have poor crosstalk and other things compared to track suspension what they don't tell you is there is a tradeoff with good dyno graphs  as the internal seals don't last as long and need frequent rebuilds. A street coilover needs to fit a different criteria like longevity, road comfort and corrosion protection.

[Hammond]

This is definitely a insightful and interesting read for anyone thinking of installing a set of aftermarket coilovers. Has there been any long term reviews from forum members in regards to the Meister r zeta crd's or any of the bc racing options for example? Cheers team!

[shnazzle]

This is definitely a insightful and interesting read for anyone thinking of installing a set of aftermarket coilovers. Has there been any long term reviews from forum members in regards to the Meister r zeta crd's or any of the bc racing options for example? Cheers team!

Can give a long term review of the BCs if required. Might be worth its own topic

[Hammond]

This is definitely a insightful and interesting read for anyone thinking of installing a set of aftermarket coilovers. Has there been any long term reviews from forum members in regards to the Meister r zeta crd's or any of the bc racing options for example? Cheers team!

Can give a long term review of the BCs if required. Might be worth its own topic

That would be greatly appreciated if not too much trouble!

[R.Sointment]

If you go for a V6 you must have some sort of height adjustable suspension stock suspension grounds out on a spirited drive.

I'm pretty confident I should have bought a boxster S.
With hindsight I should of known I wouldn't of been happy with a 200bhp motor and going forced induction was going to be trouble.

I suppose I paint a bleak picture for people thinking about mods and swaps. I feel that everyone shouts really loudly when it's all going well and then quietly disappears off the face of the planet when something goes wrong.

This is probably one of the most helpful, grounding things I've ever read - because I will absolutely find myself in the same position!
Slowly creeping up on the realisation less just my be more for my MR2, and that I really ought to keep it relatively close to the way god/mr T intended it to be.
Predictably still no progress on either a suspension refresh, or in fact any coil over Flogging!

[1979scotte]

If you go for a V6 you must have some sort of height adjustable suspension stock suspension grounds out on a spirited drive.

I'm pretty confident I should have bought a boxster S.
With hindsight I should of known I wouldn't of been happy with a 200bhp motor and going forced induction was going to be trouble.

I suppose I paint a bleak picture for people thinking about mods and swaps. I feel that everyone shouts really loudly when it's all going well and then quietly disappears off the face of the planet when something goes wrong.

This is probably one of the most helpful, grounding things I've ever read - because I will absolutely find myself in the same position!
Slowly creeping up on the realisation less just my be more for my MR2, and that I really ought to keep it relatively close to the way god/mr T intended it to be.
Predictably still no progress on either a suspension refresh, or in fact any coil over Flogging!

Thanks
Just want people to be forewarned and forearmed.
If you want more grunt then I personally think a gentle turbo is financially the best way to go.