'00 track car

[AJRFulton]

D day.

Next 6hrs will be    or 

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[AJRFulton]

Well it went well.......

Got the engine in, and had car on ramp putting on lower gearbox mounts and the lights in the unit started flickering.

The 3 phase box supplying the wee cluster of units had decided to go to 3 phase heaven, so..... bank holiday weekend and what, the engineers are not fixing this until tomorrow.

Unfortunately I'm a bit time poor for the next month, working away from home.

[AJRFulton]

I've been working away from home so slow progress.

Had 2 days to get this going and it's running well, some interesting noises but unsure how a forged, high compression 2zz should sound. Had to change alternator today, but it was pretty painless.

Tomorrow's task.... make it look like a race car again, and clean the thing a bit!

[AJRFulton]

That's it reassembled.

Did a refurb of the back brakes today

Put it on the scales and it is 960kg with a 1/8th of a tank, so a bit stuck how to save any more weight without replacing things with lighter materials. Baffled how some guys get down to ~860kg. Admittedly I do keep roof on (aero benefit outweighs the small 15kg or so weight penalty), 3.5kg fire extinguisher, and a full cage - so carrying 60-70kg or so.

However, it feels pretty good - the car isn't road legal so had very limited running - I live very remote and rural so some scope to run it down the single track road that leads to the house, but it's only 400m or so. It is driving ok though - up to the 4k revs that I've taken it too. Compression test when hot is excellent and all cylinders are more or less identical - although I don't trust my silverline compression test kit that much to value the figures given too highly (250 Psi across all 4)

Back to my work tonight for a couple of weeks, and then dyno in a fortnight to run it in. The increased compression ratio, which with the pistons (12.3:1), flat valves (MWR claim they add 0.3 to the compression ratio), and 0.01mm head skim the compression cannot be too far off 13:1, so whilst it feels pretty good - the engine doesn't sound or feel quite right - but why would it - it's on the default 2ZZ map on the Apexi.  Curious as to how it feels on track with the lightened internals, hoping to feel a difference similar to what the Fidanza flywheel gave.

A question about a fully forged engine - is it common to hear a 'tick' from it - akin to how a diesel may sound? It definitely sounds different to how the OEM engine sounded.

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[Alex Knight]

https://www.newcelica.org/threads/piston-slap.299604/

[AJRFulton]

So I took the engine down to Dynatune in East Kilbride for a rolling road run in and to map the Apexi


Small issue with a cooling pipe needing tightened (which is why a hub dyno is great for running in - see every drip on the floor), but a 7mm socket and a few clockwise turns fixed that.

Only issue is lift not always engaging (thread about Loom in maintenance section), but it has been a recurring issue with the car and that is now the 3rd engine it has happened on.

Anyway the car as making 153 bhp at the wheels without lift - so just under 180 bhp at the flywheel - which I'm happy enough with as the engine will still be tight and lift isn't engaged. As I've said before for class season the top end of the car will be limited to about 175bhp anyway.

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Friday night I got a text from a friend and invited her along to the track day. Dug out the old race seat and put it in as a passenger. Great chance to use the power ratchet I just bought - which made a job that used to be a real faff - a lot easier.

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Off to Knockhill- - 2 hour trek with the trailer - glorious weather

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Wasn't taking the track day too seriously, it was purely to get some track miles into the car and find teething issues - never bothered with a timer to remove any temptation to start chasing the clock.

Got a black flag after 10-15 laps as the car was smoking = but it was the gearbox breather spitting oil onto the exhaust. Generally the engine felt strong but there are a few connection issues with the loom. Sort out the teething problems, get lift working again, put on proper tyres and get the suspension set up properly again - and I'm pretty confident the car will be competitive.

Happy with how the car picks up with the lighter internals, the rebuilt box feels good in the change but..... still has the issue of being geared too long and there not being a right gear to be in between 55-65mph.

As for my friend - first time on track and she was a decent passenger.

[thetyrant]

Good work, 153hp at the wheels is often around what 2zz cars do with lift from what ive seen, so thats good numbers without lift! the new build setup is working well

Did you get a dyno graph ?

[AJRFulton]

Racing at Croft. Dropped an injector.

Anyone local help me out otherwise it's a 350 mile round trip to meet my sister half way.

[AJRFulton]

and the engine is fucked...... started to lose power then failed on lap 2 of the race. The injector failed during qualifying the previous day.

Drove up from Suffolk (where I'm working on a contract), back to Scotland - collected the car and drove to Croft, then an injector failed and had to meet my sister half way with spares, then Croft back to Ayrshire.... and about to drive back to Suffolk. Been one hell of a weekend.

Not sure what has happened. When I rebuilt this engine I put 4 new OEM injectors and coils on it. One of the new injectors failed on track, I think intermitted at first before packing in completely - qualifying was in torrential rain so it was hard to tell the car was down on power as it was gingerly on the throttle. I replaced the injector with one of the many old spares I have - and the car was running well, but had started puffing smoke on throttle which it wasn't doing before.

However stuck the inspection camera down the spark hole and cylinder 3 (where injector failed) is scored - the other 3 cylinders are not scored. I'm hypothesising that the cylinder over heated, the forged piston over expanded and it damaged the coating. Oil started escaping (hence smoke) and compression was lost, eventually gave out with a lot of smoke. The leak down test is definitely showing a leak in #3 when piston is BDC, but no drop in pressure when piston is TDC - this leak is not present in #2 when doing the same thing.

Now the engine is cold, it starts and runs, it even sounds fine - just very smokey.

Either way, it's becoming obvious that the 2ZZ is a pretty fragile engine for competition use (this is essentially a brand new engine - new block, pistons, rods, etc) and I think that is me through with the 2ZZ, and perhaps the MR2 - although I do really like the MR2 on track, chassis wise it is excellent and I don't think I'd find something better in that regard without paying a 5 figure number.

I also lost 2nd gear, but that box is at the end of its service life. Have a spare rebuilt box there.

[thetyrant]

Oh man thats some bad luck and no wonder your at your wits end with it!

Where did you get your new injectors from ?  there are a lot of variable quality fakes out there it seems!  its not really the engines fault if that was the case.

[JB21]

and the engine is fucked...... started to lose power then failed on lap 2 of the race. The injector failed during qualifying the previous day.

Drove up from Suffolk (where I'm working on a contract), back to Scotland - collected the car and drove to Croft, then an injector failed and had to meet my sister half way with spares, then Croft back to Ayrshire.... and about to drive back to Suffolk. Been one hell of a weekend.

Not sure what has happened. When I rebuilt this engine I put 4 new OEM injectors and coils on it. One of the new injectors failed on track, I think intermitted at first before packing in completely - qualifying was in torrential rain so it was hard to tell the car was down on power as it was gingerly on the throttle. I replaced the injector with one of the many old spares I have - and the car was running well, but had started puffing smoke on throttle which it wasn't doing before.

However stuck the inspection camera down the spark hole and cylinder 3 (where injector failed) is scored - the other 3 cylinders are not scored. I'm hypothesising that the cylinder over heated, the forged piston over expanded and it damaged the coating. Oil started escaping (hence smoke) and compression was lost, eventually gave out with a lot of smoke. The leak down test is definitely showing a leak in #3 when piston is BDC, but no drop in pressure when piston is TDC - this leak is not present in #2 when doing the same thing.

Now the engine is cold, it starts and runs, it even sounds fine - just very smokey.

Either way, it's becoming obvious that the 2ZZ is a pretty fragile engine for competition use (this is essentially a brand new engine - new block, pistons, rods, etc) and I think that is me through with the 2ZZ, and perhaps the MR2 - although I do really like the MR2 on track, chassis wise it is excellent and I don't think I'd find something better in that regard without paying a 5 figure number.

I also lost 2nd gear, but cannot complain too much as the gearbox is probably at the end of it's service life.

Absolute rotten luck! Surely that's all it can be, as my current 2ZZ is on 154k miles and has seen a lot of track days in the last 4k miles/2 years since I've had it.

I don't blame you for throwing in the towel though, I would have after the 2nd engine went. Could you not go down the K20 route?

[AJRFulton]

and the engine is fucked...... started to lose power then failed on lap 2 of the race. The injector failed during qualifying the previous day.

Drove up from Suffolk (where I'm working on a contract), back to Scotland - collected the car and drove to Croft, then an injector failed and had to meet my sister half way with spares, then Croft back to Ayrshire.... and about to drive back to Suffolk. Been one hell of a weekend.

Not sure what has happened. When I rebuilt this engine I put 4 new OEM injectors and coils on it. One of the new injectors failed on track, I think intermitted at first before packing in completely - qualifying was in torrential rain so it was hard to tell the car was down on power as it was gingerly on the throttle. I replaced the injector with one of the many old spares I have - and the car was running well, but had started puffing smoke on throttle which it wasn't doing before.

However stuck the inspection camera down the spark hole and cylinder 3 (where injector failed) is scored - the other 3 cylinders are not scored. I'm hypothesising that the cylinder over heated, the forged piston over expanded and it damaged the coating. Oil started escaping (hence smoke) and compression was lost, eventually gave out with a lot of smoke. The leak down test is definitely showing a leak in #3 when piston is BDC, but no drop in pressure when piston is TDC - this leak is not present in #2 when doing the same thing.

Now the engine is cold, it starts and runs, it even sounds fine - just very smokey.

Either way, it's becoming obvious that the 2ZZ is a pretty fragile engine for competition use (this is essentially a brand new engine - new block, pistons, rods, etc) and I think that is me through with the 2ZZ, and perhaps the MR2 - although I do really like the MR2 on track, chassis wise it is excellent and I don't think I'd find something better in that regard without paying a 5 figure number.

I also lost 2nd gear, but cannot complain too much as the gearbox is probably at the end of it's service life.

Absolute rotten luck! Surely that's all it can be, as my current 2ZZ is on 154k miles and has seen a lot of track days in the last 4k miles/2 years since I've had it.

I don't blame you for throwing in the towel though, I would have after the 2nd engine went. Could you not go down the K20 route?

There is rotten luck and rotten luck. I'm a constant in all of this, so I'm doing something wrong.

The 2ZZ doesn't seem capable of doing 20 minutes + 1 lap races (as well as a safety car lap and a parade lap, so 25-26 minutes of abusive track time without break).

That is 16 events I've entered in my motorsport career (I've missed another dozen or so not entering as car wasn't fixed) with 12 retirements, and of the 4 I have finished 2 of them were issue riddled as well. Out of 16 events I've had 2 relatively trouble free. I have podiumed every time I've finished, which is joyous when it happens - but the last of them was 2 years ago. 2 seasons of did not enter, did not start or did not finish at every round.

I do motorsport completely by myself, I've no mechanical background and have nobody in my circle who is into cars that helps me - I also work away from home 20+ days a month. This is easily the hardest thing I've ever done in life - it's an absolutely gargantuan commitment running a race car and in your spare time - that is when it's trouble free, when you start getting issues it becomes all consuming.

This weekend finally broke me mentally.

[AJRFulton]

Oh man thats some bad luck and no wonder your at your wits end with it!

Where did you get your new injectors from ? there are a lot of variable quality fakes out there it seems!  its not really the engines fault if that was the case.

Toyota Dealership, along with gasket kit, coils and valve shims.

Went OEM seals and gaskets, plugs, coils, injectors. I did uprate to a 255 fuel pump so wondering if this could cause an injector to fail? It seems to be failing to open.

2 engines I've had a new OEM part fail on (previous rebuild a valve failed about 2mm below the collet groove - had the metallurgist at work look at it, and it seemed to be a stress fracture that had slowly ingressed before a catastrophic failure.)

[Jimbo]

I do motorsport completely by myself, I've no mechanical background and have nobody in my circle who is into cars that helps me - I also work away from home 20+ days a month. This is easily the hardest thing I've ever done in life - it's an absolutely gargantuan commitment running a race car and in your spare time - that is when it's trouble free, when you start getting issues it becomes all consuming.

This weekend finally broke me mentally.

I guess you love some of our though! Maybe one of the 'standard car' series would scratch the itch without the custom builds? Pistonheads enduroka run has been an interesting read, they do original boxters & 924s if porkers are your thing. Any others people know off the top of their heads?

Certainly rotten luck though!

[thetyrant]

Oh man thats some bad luck and no wonder your at your wits end with it!

Where did you get your new injectors from ? there are a lot of variable quality fakes out there it seems!  its not really the engines fault if that was the case.

Toyota Dealership, along with gasket kit, coils and valve shims.

Went OEM seals and gaskets, plugs, coils, injectors. I did uprate to a 255 fuel pump so wondering if this could cause an injector to fail? It seems to be failing to open.

2 engines I've had a new OEM part fail on (previous rebuild a valve failed about 2mm below the collet groove - had the metallurgist at work look at it, and it seemed to be a stress fracture that had slowly ingressed before a catastrophic failure.)

Thats is odd then, are you sure its the injector and not a wiring issue as i know you had some problems with that before, whats probably more annoying is the lack of fuelling has caused the damage, normally on on a non-turbo applications all that would happen is lack of power from cylinder down, the piston should not of damaged the bore as there is no lubrication from the fuel system to the cylinder walls.  Turbo motor its much more serious due to heat involved.

Would be interesting to get the injectors tested and M1tch on here has a machine im sure he would oblige

[AJRFulton]

Oh man thats some bad luck and no wonder your at your wits end with it!

Where did you get your new injectors from ? there are a lot of variable quality fakes out there it seems!  its not really the engines fault if that was the case.

Toyota Dealership, along with gasket kit, coils and valve shims.

Went OEM seals and gaskets, plugs, coils, injectors. I did uprate to a 255 fuel pump so wondering if this could cause an injector to fail? It seems to be failing to open.

2 engines I've had a new OEM part fail on (previous rebuild a valve failed about 2mm below the collet groove - had the metallurgist at work look at it, and it seemed to be a stress fracture that had slowly ingressed before a catastrophic failure.)

Thats is odd then, are you sure its the injector and not a wiring issue as i know you had some problems with that before, whats probably more annoying is the lack of fuelling has caused the damage, normally on on a non-turbo applications all that would happen is lack of power from cylinder down, the piston should not of damaged the bore as there is no lubrication from the fuel system to the cylinder walls.  Turbo motor its much more serious due to heat involved.

Would be interesting to get the injectors tested and M1tch on here has a machine im sure he would oblige

Not the wiring. Scientific testing in the paddock - Switched the injectors around and the problem followed the injector.

I'm NA, but high compression NA. It's only a theory based on inspection camera - it looks like heat and no mistaking the scoring present, will see better when broken apart, but that's for another day.

[AJRFulton]

I do motorsport completely by myself, I've no mechanical background and have nobody in my circle who is into cars that helps me - I also work away from home 20+ days a month. This is easily the hardest thing I've ever done in life - it's an absolutely gargantuan commitment running a race car and in your spare time - that is when it's trouble free, when you start getting issues it becomes all consuming.

This weekend finally broke me mentally.

I guess you love some of our though! Maybe one of the 'standard car' series would scratch the itch without the custom builds? Pistonheads enduroka run has been an interesting read, they do original boxters & 924s if porkers are your thing. Any others people know off the top of their heads?

Certainly rotten luck though!

I do love it, you accept when you do motorsport there will be bad weekends, tbh the first couple of times I had problems it was.... dare I say.... fun? Paddocks bring out the best in people when theres issues. However that's 1 entry in the last 12 I've finished, and not to mention the half dozen I've had so many problems prior Ive not even bothered entering. I've long past the crossover point between issues being fun to issues being absolutely dejecting. Yesterday was the breaking point for me. It actually feels like when I gave up football (a huge part of my life) - after a bad injury a long lay off... the body got soft, I had another 3yrs of injuries, constantly getting fit only to get another niggle that set me back. The final straw was when I got another bad injury (damaged cartilage) and just accepted it was over. Yesterday was like that.

As for other series, unfortunately it's the travel involved for these series.

Knockhill and Croft are both far enough, Croft is my 2nd closest track and its 4.5hrs away with a trailer (Knockhill is 2hrs).

Most of the tracks in these series are on are 6-10 hrs at towing speed away. A trip to Cadwell is an 18hr round trip, Anglesey 13hrs, Brands/Castle Combe... 18-20hrs.

When you start doing that you need a van and trailer capable of it, Id need to upgrade both, probably camper/hotels - then fuel costs, etc... It probably wouldn't be cheaper really. I'd like to do the odd "away" round when time and money allow, but would rather keep it as a novelty than a commitment.

[Roj]

I've not been there with motorsport but cars, in general, have tested me, my wallet and my love of cars multiple times. No doubt it's a crazy bad run you've had and many would have chucked the towel in long before now.

As an interim measure to get you back enjoying it again, have you thought about slotting a 1ZZ in and dropping down to Class G (130bhp/tonne) in SLS? You should be able to get pretty much bang on the limit with a fairly stock but reliable 1ZZ. Or maybe try the sprint & Hillclimb champs, less prolonged stress on the engine. Try that for a year, get your mojo back before looking at what you do with modsports.

[AJRFulton]

I've not been there with motorsport but cars, in general, have tested me, my wallet and my love of cars multiple times. No doubt it's a crazy bad run you've had and many would have chucked the towel in long before now.

As an interim measure to get you back enjoying it again, have you thought about slotting a 1ZZ in and dropping down to Class G (130bhp/tonne) in SLS? You should be able to get pretty much bang on the limit with a fairly stock but reliable 1ZZ. Or maybe try the sprint & Hillclimb champs, less prolonged stress on the engine. Try that for a year, get your mojo back before looking at what you do with modsports.

Problem with class G..... there is 1 car in it this year compared to 12 or so in F.

but SLS is in danger of folding IMO.

Anyway theres a video of the issues as they happened.

[Alex Knight]

I'm so sorry to hear of your continued bad luck, it's really something else.

May I suggest something?

Perhaps you could buy a Celica/Corolla T-Sport, and tool around in it for a few months? Perhaps do a trackday too?

That way you'll know if the engine is sound, and you can swap them over.

That's what I did and I've never looked back.

[moca2cv]

Oh man what a run of bad luck. Your stories have only validated my decision to stick with the 1ZZ, so thank you

As you say it is a brilliant platform, I hope you figure out a way to stick with it - I honestly don't believe there is another platform out there that offers the same kind of performance for the money.

[1979scotte]

Sorry for your troubles.

[puma2]

     gutted  for you  
that is some  traveling over the weekend not to mention how stressful it all must have bean  

[AJRFulton]

    gutted  for you  
that is some  traveling over the weekend not to mention how stressful it all must have bean  

Yeah, 1800 miles in 4 days last weekend. 2x 10hr journeys and 3x 4.5hr journeys. Fair to say I was knackered and a lot of effort for 1 session + 2 laps.

Some pics of the Sunday, and video of the Saturday qualifying (wet but drying). Can see on vid that cars down on power and gearbox is sticky.

[JB21]

You can hear it proper stuttering at high RPM's. Car looks great out on track though.

No rev matching on downshifts?