Suspension refresh, what gains?

[Iain]

Hi all. Since i joined this forum and after buying my first 2, ive read so much about doing a suspension refresh and the difference it makes.

Can anyone clarify what this difference is exactly? More grip/better handling? Comfort?

My car is an 03 and only 73k on the clock.

The suspension seems totally fine. No knocks, rattles, or anything else related with tired suspension.

I will be using it on track, and having done my first track day i was very happy with the way it handled for a stock car on mis-match tyres.

I want to lower the car mainly for looks, and was wondering about replacing the shocks at the same time. But is it really going to be worth the £300 or so to do the shocks when all seems fine?

Would love any input, thanks in advance.

[AdamR28]

If you are just refreshing or replacing like for like, then at the age of the car it will just generally feel a bit more taught and responsive.

The 'upgrades' path is a big can of worms. Some dive straight in as soon as the car sees a sniff of track work, but I would dissuade from doing this - the standard car is pretty capable, a lot of fun on track, and will teach you a lot.

I'm only down in Bamber Bridge btw if you ever fancy a car-natter / mini meet!

[Iain]

If you are just refreshing or replacing like for like, then at the age of the car it will just generally feel a bit more taught and responsive.

The 'upgrades' path is a big can of worms. Some dive straight in as soon as the car sees a sniff of track work, but I would dissuade from doing this - the standard car is pretty capable, a lot of fun on track, and will teach you a lot.

I'm only down in Bamber Bridge btw if you ever fancy a car-natter / mini meet!

So no major difference with new, just feel a tad fresher.

Id like to keep the car pretty standard, it performs perfectly well for me.  Wont be going to coilovers or anything like that.

Yes, when the world is normal again i would be up for a meet.

[Petrus]

Yes, when the world is normal again i would be up for a meet.

Looks like that will be august/september nex year; better take the first more relaxed opportunity ;-)

[shnazzle]

If you are just refreshing or replacing like for like, then at the age of the car it will just generally feel a bit more taught and responsive.

The 'upgrades' path is a big can of worms. Some dive straight in as soon as the car sees a sniff of track work, but I would dissuade from doing this - the standard car is pretty capable, a lot of fun on track, and will teach you a lot.

I'm only down in Bamber Bridge btw if you ever fancy a car-natter / mini meet!

So no major difference with new, just feel a tad fresher.

Id like to keep the car pretty standard, it performs perfectly well for me.  Wont be going to coilovers or anything like that.

Yes, when the world is normal again i would be up for a meet.

"a tad fresher" can be a massive understatement depending on the state of your existing springs/dampers. 

Over time the suspension becomes "soft", bouncy, and crashy.
Replace with fresh and it becomes taught, comfortable and controlled. 
If your car has done 45k,maybe not as noticeable,but noticeable. If it has done closer to 100k I'd dare say you're entering "night/day" territory

[Carolyn]

I thought there wasn't much wrong with my original shocks and springs, until one started to leak a little at around 88,000 miles.  So I decided to go overboard and treat her to new KYB shocks and stock springs all round.

It was a revelation. "So THIS is how good they were fresh out of the factory then!"

[1979scotte]

Obviously budget is always a consideration but I would change any shocks and springs at 50k and would look at all the bushes too.
Again it depends on whether the car is a keeper or not. If intending to sell on perhaps just enjoy as it is.

[Topdownman]

If you are happy with the car at present, no need to change anything.

If you are going to fit lowering springs (especially if you are paying someone rather than doing it yourself) it makes sense to do the shocks at the same time rather than have to do again later.

Do you know how long you are likely to keep the car? You are unlikely to have to do 2 suspension refreshs on it but if you plan to keep it a few years, you will almost certainly have to do it at some point. To my mind, why put it off when it could transform the car? You may as well have all the years of your ownership on good suspension rather than just some.

The kybs sometimes fall under deals of 15-20% off from certain suppliers on ebay so its worth watching the cheapest ones you can find and hoping a deal comes up and you may get a set for under £250.

[McMr2]

I thought there wasn't much wrong with my original shocks and springs, until one started to leak a little at around 88,000 miles.  So I decided to go overboard and treat her to new KYB shocks and stock springs all round.

It was a revelation. "So THIS is how good they were fresh out of the factory then!"

Carolyn is spot on (you'll notice that a lot). Mine is an 04 and had similar miles to yours (OP). There was nothing 'wrong' with the car but given the age and number of previous owners I opted for new kyb's and the tein springs, with a proper alignment too.

I went down this route as the car is mostly used on B roads and needs a bit of compliance. Definitely inspires more confidence when pushing on compared to the old, slightly bouncy suspension. No doubt fresh OEM parts would have a similar impact.

Tellingly, the tein springs are in a box that says 'dress up master' or something similar so they aren't massively stiff for track use.

[Iain]

Thanks for all the input, seems its definately worth spending the money and getting it done.

I always have in my head the old saying of 'if it aint broke dont fix it' but in this case if the difference is so noticable then that kinda doesnt fit.

Im planning on keeping the car for a while so as mentioned above its worth doing sooner rather than later, then can be used an enjoyed as intended.

Thanks all

[cptspaulding]

To echo others, I'm another who refreshed the stock suspension at 65k miles.

Felt like a new car. Spend the money, drive it & reflect on a wise investment.

[1979scotte]

Most importantly has anyone ever had a suspension refresh and said

"Meh that was a waste made no difference"

I doubt it.

[Beachbum957]

Most importantly has anyone ever had a suspension refresh and said

"Meh that was a waste made no difference"

I doubt it.

Well, actually........

We have a 2003 and replaced the struts (probably originals with a lot of miles) with new KYB. With stock springs, the difference was "not much". But the change was still worthwhile as original front struts showed wear on the shock shaft.

Lowering springs are always stiffer to prevent bottoming.  New KYB work pretty well with springs like Tein, but are bit under damped. Koni inserts made a noticeable difference and work much better. 

We have also used Koni's with stock springs and while better than the KYB, the difference isn't that great and may not justify the cost difference.

[1979scotte]

And another question will my roadster always have stock power?

Again if considering turbo, 2zz swap etc a suspension refresh is a good idea.

[dm1]

Hope you don't mind me jumping in to ask but is there a standard height spring recommended other than Toyota.
I've just broken one of the rear springs and so will refresh the suspension with a full set of KYB dampers but I can only see Toyota springs if I don't want to lower the car.

Thanks. Dave

[Topdownman]

Hope you don't mind me jumping in to ask but is there a standard height spring recommended other than Toyota.
I've just broken one of the rear springs and so will refresh the suspension with a full set of KYB dampers but I can only see Toyota springs if I don't want to lower the car.

Thanks. Dave

Welcome!

You can give TCB a ring to see if there are any other options as they are very knowledgeable about such things.

http://www.tcbparts.co.uk/suspension.htm#Mr2(Suspension)

[Dev]

Most importantly has anyone ever had a suspension refresh and said

"Meh that was a waste made no difference"

I doubt it.

 Most people who have bought a used example will not know that their suspension is expired because they have no bases of comparison.

 The signs of bad suspension is not a rough ride or excessive sway as it usually never gets to that point unless the car has seen extensive neglect. The car will feel mostly fine for daily driving. Where the suspension unveils its self is when the car is performance driven to where there is a sensation of mid corner float. The driver will tend to slow down thinking the limits have been reached because they have virtually no feedback. 
  I have driven many examples of used cars that the new owner thought the suspension was just fine and it clearly wasn't. A new set of KYBs made them understand how bad it was. 

[Petrus]

wrong link sorry

[dm1]

You can give TCB a ring to see if there are any other options as they are very knowledgeable about such things.

http://www.tcbparts.co.uk/suspension.htm#Mr2(Suspension)

Thanks for the recommendation. There are KYB and Japanparts springs available in standard height so I have placed an order with Paul.

[Smithy]

As well as springs and shocks would you also recommend replacing top mounts front and rear?

[Topdownman]

Its usually a case of seeing what they look like when you dismantle the old ones.

The rears fare much better than the fronts generally so chances are they will be ok with just a de-rust and paint.

You may only need to replace some of the parts of the front ones rather than everything.

They usually look really bad with rust to start with but I would say a lot get saved and re-used?

[Mark A]

I've got 2x MR2 although neither are running at the moment.

One started off as a fast 2ZZ road car and has escalated to a track focused car. Its on BCs, Whileline ARBs, semi slick tyres, camber bolts, poly bushed etc and has had a good refresh from top to bottom.
The second is a standard ish setup 1ZZ but DIY turbo'd. As much as it pains me on the roads around my house the standard KYB with Apexi springs is much less stressful to drive and probably quicker.

My advice would be if you are using it on the road for any sort of "Fun" driving then stick with KYBs and lowered springs, but if you spend time chasing 1/10th of a second and drive on uber smooth roads then pick coilovers.

Remember it takes time and some expertise to property setup any car on coilovers. 

[Smithy]

Its usually a case of seeing what they look like when you dismantle the old ones.

The rears fare much better than the fronts generally so chances are they will be ok with just a de-rust and paint.

You may only need to replace some of the parts of the front ones rather than everything.

They usually look really bad with rust to start with but I would say a lot get saved and re-used?

Ok thanks for that. thats really helpful

[Gaz mr-s]

It's recently been confirmed the Celica front mounts are the same. And the KYB now come with sealed bearings, rather than the originals which didn't.  Japan Parts/Akisha also have sealed bearings. 

A length of 6mm fuel line fitted & glued on the underside of the top mount should stop road grit getting up to the bearing.

[Iain]

How odd this thread got commented on today, last night i ordered a full set of new shocks an springs, all OEM.