Tyres understeer

[Bad Dog]

Would chronic understeer on damp greasy roundabouts be purely tyre related ?  tia😊

[Petrus]

Would chronic understeer on damp greasy roundabouts be purely tyre related ?  tia😊

No, not really.

It is the inherently safe ´initial oversteer´ which stáys like that because the front does not grip and steer once into the ´corner´.
It is how the car always is, was designed to be, but with more grip the front tyres don´t exhibit it as markedly.

There are primairily two ways to change it:
- change the driving; nail it earlier so the rear already oversteers or enter on the handbrake, but you need the space for that
- shift the balance of the set up towards more oversteer

Do be aware that even with oversteer bias, the car will alway push the front end on very tight roundabouts and thus low speed. Unless.... yes, you MÁKE the rear go.

The standard balance is quite good for even quite spirited driving under most conditions. It is basically pick your poison and Toyota came up with a pretty good compromise.

[Ardent]

Would chronic understeer on damp greasy roundabouts be purely tyre related ?  tia😊

Out of interest  what tyres are on it now.
Brand, age, sizes, condition  pressures.
Has it always done it? Only just started?
Geometry out?

[Petrus]

Out of interest  what tyres are on it now.
Brand, age, sizes, condition  pressures.
Has it always done it? Only just started?
Geometry out?

Spot on Jason!
That teaches me; assuming the car is maintained as it should be.

[Call the midlife!]

As an addendum to Ardent's comments do you have the spare wheel in the frunk still?
Some people run without it for various reasons but the weight was factored into the design of the car.

[Petrus]

As an addendum to Ardent's comments do you have the spare wheel in the frunk still?
Some people run without it for various reasons but the weight was factored into the design of the car.

Funny that actually. Less weight up front makes a car less understeered and more weight in the bucket makes this Spyder more stable at higher speeds because the extra weight slows the directional changes of the front down. Logical but appearantly contradictory and therefore often confusing.

[Ardent]

Logical but appearantly contradictory and therefore often confusing.

That sounds like my life in general.

[JB21]

Not necessarily related but if you're running ditch finders they wont be helping. As mentioned the mk3 is set up for understeer from factory to make it safe for all the hair dressers, so they don't go backwards into a ditch in-between appointments.

[Topdownman]

This is why it is always important to make sure your scissors are secured safely in the glovebox.

[Carolyn]

I find a well -set up car is very neutral.  Had understeer on crap tyres- just a steady four-wheel slide on good ones (not that I ever drive that hard )

Good rubber with good tread and correct pressures sort most evils, I feel.

[Bad Dog]

Would chronic understeer on damp greasy roundabouts be purely tyre related ?  tia😊

Out of interest  what tyres are on it now.
Brand, age, sizes, condition  pressures.
Has it always done it? Only just started?
Geometry out?

I've only had it for 4 weeks soooo
Tyres are Front - T1R Proxes 185/55-15 82V
          Rear  - Nankang 215/45-16
Don't know how old they are but plenty of tread on all pressures 26F 32R.

Has done it since I've owned it.

Geometry .....no idea, planning on changing the suspension before forking out for 4 wheel alignment.

 



 

[Bad Dog]

As an addendum to Ardent's comments do you have the spare wheel in the frunk still?
Some people run without it for various reasons but the weight was factored into the design of the car.

Yep spare wheel still up front.

[Ardent]

Would chronic understeer on damp greasy roundabouts be purely tyre related ?  tia😊

Out of interest  what tyres are on it now.
Brand, age, sizes, condition  pressures.
Has it always done it? Only just started?
Geometry out?

I've only had it for 4 weeks soooo
Tyres are Front - T1R Proxes 185/55-15 82V
          Rear  - Nankang 215/45-16
Don't know how old they are but plenty of tread on all pressures 26F 32R.

Has done it since I've owned it.

Geometry .....no idea, planning on changing the suspension before forking out for 4 wheel alignment.

Def suspension 1st. As only end up doing again.
I have no personal experience with the toyos. But they are very marmite on here.
The fact correct sizes and pressures is good.

[Dev]

Its most likely the mixed set. The issues with wet traction and temperature makes for a wild inconsistent ride.

[JB21]

Wouldn't say its the Toyo's causing the understeer. They're actually not to bad in the wet.

How does the car behave in the dry?

[Bad Dog]

Wouldn't say its the Toyo's causing the understeer. They're actually not to bad in the wet.

How does the car behave in the dry?

Better, although it hasn't been that dry lately 😂

[Zxrob]

I find a well -set up car is very neutral. Had understeer on crap tyres- just a steady four-wheel slide on good ones (not that I ever drive that hard )

Good rubber with good tread and correct pressures sort most evils, I feel.

This ^^^^

Rob

[Petrus]

Good rubber with good tread and correct pressures sort most evils, I feel.

Mátching rubber too...

[shnazzle]

Good rubber with good tread and correct pressures sort most evils, I feel.

Mátching rubber too...

I'm in the Carolyn camp with this. 

As long as the tyres on each axle match.

I always buy matching but more out of habit. I desperately need new tyres but I'm struggling to find the sizes I need for my alloys. It seems the choice available to us is shrinking every year. Not helped by by wider front alloys.
So, I may be getting a mixed set like @Ardent did.

My #1 example of how much it "shouldn't" matter;
Our first MR2, a 52 plate, was worse for wear when we got it. 4 different tyre brands on each corner. I didn't check the pressures. Only on a "name" brand. 
We joined the club 2 weeks later and went on a big drive out. 
Absolutely hooned it through Yorkshire and the car was fantastic. The suspension was shot, the tyres mismatched and bald and the brakes gone. So much so that we had to call it quits 3/4 the way in because the rear right caliper seized.
Had a few wet spots as well on the road and the car never let up. 

So, while tyres can make things a lot better, I haven't found them the core reason for bad handling.

I'm not a fan of the Toyos but only because I didn't find them progressive. When they lost grip, it was a surprise and it snapped. Whereas the Yokos let you know well in advance. 

I have a fair bit of understeer because I have -2deg camber on the rear and only -1 on the front, and my front track is wider by a few mm than the rear because I bought the wrong offset for the front wheels by mistake. But, I can counteract it by chancing my suspension settings. Same tyres.

[Petrus]

I'm in the Carolyn camp with this.

As long as the tyres on each axle match.

Légally that is OK.

Potential issue is that tyres of different types respond differently to different conditions.As such it wíll create behaviour differing from the OEM balance.
This can, as mentioned elsewhere, even be exploited to one´s advantage on the track. In real world variable conditions not as predictable though, meaning more user awareness needed.

And ofcourse, the how much different totally depending on how different the types are. See the snag? Not quite user resistant is it? Appearantly ok for the Carolyn camp but imo not for a generic advice.

[Carolyn]

I don't do 'camping'.  Nor 'tent'.

You can be the the Carolyn motorhome if you want 

Or not....

[Petrus]

Here a realy fun and mind organising video about cornering:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYp2vvUgEqE

From 6:55 it´s about tyres.
He starts with defecto explaining why there is different behaviour when éntering a corner from when in the corner; the front wheels corner befóre the rear ones do. This is where ´intial understeer´ originates and why you need a higher rear suspension frequency per example.
At 18:20 he gets to a roundabout :-)
22:50 is a cool point too.
Warning; at 25:00 he explains the initial understeer but it cán provoke a headache... however do keep watching because there is a reward at 27:00....

Now include two dífferent types. Have fun!!

[Bad Dog]

Good rubber with good tread and correct pressures sort most evils, I feel.

Mátching rubber too...

I'm in the Carolyn camp with this.

As long as the tyres on each axle match.

I always buy matching but more out of habit. I desperately need new tyres but I'm struggling to find the sizes I need for my alloys. It seems the choice available to us is shrinking every year. Not helped by by wider front alloys.
So, I may be getting a mixed set like @Ardent did.

My #1 example of how much it "shouldn't" matter;
Our first MR2, a 52 plate, was worse for wear when we got it. 4 different tyre brands on each corner. I didn't check the pressures. Only on a "name" brand.
We joined the club 2 weeks later and went on a big drive out.
Absolutely hooned it through Yorkshire and the car was fantastic. The suspension was shot, the tyres mismatched and bald and the brakes gone. So much so that we had to call it quits 3/4 the way in because the rear right caliper seized.
Had a few wet spots as well on the road and the car never let up.

So, while tyres can make things a lot better, I haven't found them the core reason for bad handling.

I'm not a fan of the Toyos but only because I didn't find them progressive. When they lost grip, it was a surprise and it snapped. Whereas the Yokos let you know well in advance.

I have a fair bit of understeer because I have -2deg camber on the rear and only -1 on the front, and my front track is wider by a few mm than the rear because I bought the wrong offset for the front wheels by mistake. But, I can counteract it by chancing my suspension settings. Same tyres.

Thanks for that, which type of yokos are you running ?

[shnazzle]

Good rubber with good tread and correct pressures sort most evils, I feel.

Mátching rubber too...

I'm in the Carolyn camp with this.

As long as the tyres on each axle match.

I always buy matching but more out of habit. I desperately need new tyres but I'm struggling to find the sizes I need for my alloys. It seems the choice available to us is shrinking every year. Not helped by by wider front alloys.
So, I may be getting a mixed set like @Ardent did.

My #1 example of how much it "shouldn't" matter;
Our first MR2, a 52 plate, was worse for wear when we got it. 4 different tyre brands on each corner. I didn't check the pressures. Only on a "name" brand.
We joined the club 2 weeks later and went on a big drive out.
Absolutely hooned it through Yorkshire and the car was fantastic. The suspension was shot, the tyres mismatched and bald and the brakes gone. So much so that we had to call it quits 3/4 the way in because the rear right caliper seized.
Had a few wet spots as well on the road and the car never let up.

So, while tyres can make things a lot better, I haven't found them the core reason for bad handling.

I'm not a fan of the Toyos but only because I didn't find them progressive. When they lost grip, it was a surprise and it snapped. Whereas the Yokos let you know well in advance.

I have a fair bit of understeer because I have -2deg camber on the rear and only -1 on the front, and my front track is wider by a few mm than the rear because I bought the wrong offset for the front wheels by mistake. But, I can counteract it by chancing my suspension settings. Same tyres.

Thanks for that, which type of yokos are you running ?

AD08R and AD08RS front and rear. Have done for years now,since the original AD08

[Carolyn]

Good rubber with good tread and correct pressures sort most evils, I feel.

Mátching rubber too...

I'm in the Carolyn camp with this.

As long as the tyres on each axle match.

I always buy matching but more out of habit. I desperately need new tyres but I'm struggling to find the sizes I need for my alloys. It seems the choice available to us is shrinking every year. Not helped by by wider front alloys.
So, I may be getting a mixed set like @Ardent did.

My #1 example of how much it "shouldn't" matter;
Our first MR2, a 52 plate, was worse for wear when we got it. 4 different tyre brands on each corner. I didn't check the pressures. Only on a "name" brand.
We joined the club 2 weeks later and went on a big drive out.
Absolutely hooned it through Yorkshire and the car was fantastic. The suspension was shot, the tyres mismatched and bald and the brakes gone. So much so that we had to call it quits 3/4 the way in because the rear right caliper seized.
Had a few wet spots as well on the road and the car never let up.

So, while tyres can make things a lot better, I haven't found them the core reason for bad handling.

I'm not a fan of the Toyos but only because I didn't find them progressive. When they lost grip, it was a surprise and it snapped. Whereas the Yokos let you know well in advance.

I have a fair bit of understeer because I have -2deg camber on the rear and only -1 on the front, and my front track is wider by a few mm than the rear because I bought the wrong offset for the front wheels by mistake. But, I can counteract it by chancing my suspension settings. Same tyres.

Thanks for that, which type of yokos are you running ?

AD08R and AD08RS front and rear. Have done for years now,since the original AD08

Would those be the Yokos you were aquaplaning on the other day, by any chance?