Tyres understeer

[shnazzle]

Good rubber with good tread and correct pressures sort most evils, I feel.

Mátching rubber too...

I'm in the Carolyn camp with this.

As long as the tyres on each axle match.

I always buy matching but more out of habit. I desperately need new tyres but I'm struggling to find the sizes I need for my alloys. It seems the choice available to us is shrinking every year. Not helped by by wider front alloys.
So, I may be getting a mixed set like @Ardent did.

My #1 example of how much it "shouldn't" matter;
Our first MR2, a 52 plate, was worse for wear when we got it. 4 different tyre brands on each corner. I didn't check the pressures. Only on a "name" brand.
We joined the club 2 weeks later and went on a big drive out.
Absolutely hooned it through Yorkshire and the car was fantastic. The suspension was shot, the tyres mismatched and bald and the brakes gone. So much so that we had to call it quits 3/4 the way in because the rear right caliper seized.
Had a few wet spots as well on the road and the car never let up.

So, while tyres can make things a lot better, I haven't found them the core reason for bad handling.

I'm not a fan of the Toyos but only because I didn't find them progressive. When they lost grip, it was a surprise and it snapped. Whereas the Yokos let you know well in advance.

I have a fair bit of understeer because I have -2deg camber on the rear and only -1 on the front, and my front track is wider by a few mm than the rear because I bought the wrong offset for the front wheels by mistake. But, I can counteract it by chancing my suspension settings. Same tyres.

Thanks for that, which type of yokos are you running ?

AD08R and AD08RS front and rear. Have done for years now,since the original AD08

Would those be the Yokos you were aquaplaning on the other day, by any chance?

Themz the ones! 


I do NOT recommend them for anything under about 10deg, especially wet and <10deg

[1979scotte]

Good rubber with good tread and correct pressures sort most evils, I feel.

Mátching rubber too...

I'm in the Carolyn camp with this.

As long as the tyres on each axle match.

I always buy matching but more out of habit. I desperately need new tyres but I'm struggling to find the sizes I need for my alloys. It seems the choice available to us is shrinking every year. Not helped by by wider front alloys.
So, I may be getting a mixed set like @Ardent did.

My #1 example of how much it "shouldn't" matter;
Our first MR2, a 52 plate, was worse for wear when we got it. 4 different tyre brands on each corner. I didn't check the pressures. Only on a "name" brand.
We joined the club 2 weeks later and went on a big drive out.
Absolutely hooned it through Yorkshire and the car was fantastic. The suspension was shot, the tyres mismatched and bald and the brakes gone. So much so that we had to call it quits 3/4 the way in because the rear right caliper seized.
Had a few wet spots as well on the road and the car never let up.

So, while tyres can make things a lot better, I haven't found them the core reason for bad handling.

I'm not a fan of the Toyos but only because I didn't find them progressive. When they lost grip, it was a surprise and it snapped. Whereas the Yokos let you know well in advance.

I have a fair bit of understeer because I have -2deg camber on the rear and only -1 on the front, and my front track is wider by a few mm than the rear because I bought the wrong offset for the front wheels by mistake. But, I can counteract it by chancing my suspension settings. Same tyres.

Thanks for that, which type of yokos are you running ?

AD08R and AD08RS front and rear. Have done for years now,since the original AD08

Would those be the Yokos you were aquaplaning on the other day, by any chance?

Themz the ones!


I do NOT recommend them for anything under about 10deg, especially wet and <10deg

Depends where you live and how much power you have and if you can stop yourself driving like a tit.

I'm not convinced on mixing the different AD08 have them on the blue doesn't feel 100% to me but then I am used to more weight.

[Petrus]

Depends where you live and how much power you have and if you can stop yourself driving like a tit.

With you on that.

Furthermore they remain predictable. Just less grip close to zero or below 10 and wet. Simple solution; moderate the hoonigan factor.

I'm not convinced on mixing the different AD08 have them on the blue doesn't feel 100% to me but then I am used to more weight.

With you AGAIN!  We must stop that...

As observed the problem Í have with it may very well be my own limitations to deal with different tyre behavior under different conditions at both ends.
One end gripping a bit better when hot, the other when chilly, times ditto wet; changing balance would ruin my confidence completely.

[1979scotte]

Depends where you live and how much power you have and if you can stop yourself driving like a tit.

With you on that.

Furthermore they remain predictable. Just less grip close to zero or below 10 and wet. Simple solution; moderate the hoonigan factor.

I'm not convinced on mixing the different AD08 have them on the blue doesn't feel 100% to me but then I am used to more weight.

With you AGAIN!  We must stop that...

As observed the problem Í have with it may very well be my own limitations to deal with different tyre behavior under different conditions at both ends.
One end gripping a bit better when hot, the other when chilly, times ditto wet; changing balance would ruin my confidence completely.

Complete change of heart.
They're fine.
In fact fit a completely different brand on each corner.
Anything just to disagree with @Petrus. 😜

BTW mate you've totally done us on that trade deal. Looks to me that all hard talking Boris did came to nothing.

[shnazzle]

Well, it wasn't  by choice.
I'd rather have AD08 on all 4 but alas when I needed new rears they were no longer available.
They're not that wildly different anyway.

And yes I do change my driving style drastically but fact of the matter is that the tyres do not work well in cold and wet. And they don't have good aquaplaning prevention.
They're a tyre for a purpose and you just have to live with the fact that you have to drive with caution in the winter.
They're just not suitable or built for those conditions.

I take the bad with the good. So far I've had one mishap on them caused by a lapse in judgement by me on a freezing cold and wet winter day thinking I could pull out on a roundabout quick enough. Alas the tyres just spun and not long after, so did the car. I should have waited for a bigger gap. No damage done.

The point is there's no debating the fact that you have to "cope" with them in the winter. And I'm cool with that. But is it the most sensible decision? Not really.

As for driving hard on the mix of AD08 and AD08R... Barely notice. The rear feels slightly less grippy in the dry/warm than it did, but actually I think they're a bit better in the wet rhan the AD08

[Petrus]

BTW mate you've totally done us on that trade deal. Looks to me that all hard talking Boris did came to nothing.

You hád the best deal of all 27; rebates, opt outs et all.
Now you don´t.
It was never ever going to be anything different. 
Done it to yourselves mate; Brexit is all Made in Britain.


@shnazzle that wet grip is good news. When mine need replacing will go the new S as dry grip is bordering on the silly anyway. Will happily trade some of it for a bit more wet/cold.

[1979scotte]

BTW mate you've totally done us on that trade deal. Looks to me that all hard talking Boris did came to nothing.

You hád the best deal of all 27; rebates, opt outs et all.
Now you don´t.
It was never ever going to be anything different. 

It's only us and the Germans that do anything everybody else is always on holiday.
No work ethic these Mediterranean countries and the French don't get me started.
We'll be ok I've got all my Romanian mates.

[Ardent]

Not a comparison, more a reinforcement of comments above.
My previously worn out ADO8r's in current seasonal weather, were not enjoyable.

Not surprisingly, much happier on the fresh rainsports.

The rainsports give a bigger window of opportunity. They are more useful, more of the time.

They seem to be settling in, as the miles go on. It is me that needs to dial in to them now.

[Petrus]

No work ethic these Mediterranean countries and the French don't get me started.

You are now rid of all that so be happy. Good for you.
So please do not complain about the deal; you cannot both have and eat your cake.


So agreed to disagree we can go back on topic.
Leve plakbanden!!!
 

[Call the midlife!]

BTW mate you've totally done us on that trade deal. Looks to me that all hard talking Boris did came to nothing.

You hád the best deal of all 27; rebates, opt outs et all.
Now you don´t.
It was never ever going to be anything different. 

It's only us and the Germans that do anything everybody else is always on holiday.
No work ethic these Mediterranean countries and the French don't get me started.
We'll be ok I've got all my Romanian mates.

.

[Petrus]

....

So why harp on it?
You´re rid of it. Yeehaaa....
Go out waving the Union Jack.

Me, I am happy that levies on goods will be minimal. Well, when the UK is no longer cut off from the continent that is. Per example both Amazon and the postal services on either side of the pond refuse to process anything to or fro the UK.
Brexit x Covid19 = ´perfect´ mess.

Relatively good thing that new car sales are at rock bottom, because the car industry has the same problem.
Not all is lost though; the Toyota Yaris GR delivery from Japan is unaffected ;-)

[shnazzle]

This thread was about tyres right?

[Petrus]

This thread was about tyres right?

I therefore just wrote ´Leve plakbanden´!!!!!

Seems a pity that the Michelin rubber in the GR ´race pack´ does not come in MR2 sizes  :-(

[Joesson]

This thread was about tyres right?

I therefore just wrote ´Leve plakbanden´!!!!!

Seems a pity that the Michelin rubber in the GR ´race pack´ does not come in MR2 sizes  :-(

My Mother would refer to that which is not understandable as "double Dutch" !

[Petrus]

My Mother would refer to that which is not understandable as "double Dutch" !

Thus basically a perception of the Rest Of the World ;-)

As a matter of interest, the word ´barbarian´ originates from a roman writer about the ´Berber´ whom they could not understand.

It ís perfectly understandable, just not by you when you do not speak that language.

Nowadays we have electronic translating tools. Still a great bonus to speak the lingo yourself though.
´Plakband´ per example does not translate well in the e-tools; it loses all the humor.

Remains a pity that the PilotSport 4S is only available in 17 - 22"; they áre in 25 section.... things to come.

[1979scotte]

This thread was about tyres right?

Yeah but I was bored

[Chilli Girl]

Scotte bored? Don't believe that  

[Ardent]

Local dialects and accents are tricky enough. Let alone whole languages.
Cockneys, brummie, macans, Geordie, scouse, etc etc,

Being from the middle of the middle.
Sunny Leicester, therefore accent less.
Makes me wonder if I'm the only person that speaks English at times. Init.

Occupation. Diesel Fitter.
You mean a market trader. Yes. These'll fit her.

Rainsport5s are stiffer side walled than 3s. But still far from ad08.

[Call the midlife!]

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what rubber you have on, or how well your car is set up if you're determined to test the limits or generally ignore them.
I've got brand new PS4 on, brand new suspension and all the electronic aids that come with a Bavarian wagon but it was still squirming on mini roundabouts yesterday and the front end will wash out steadily if you try to beat the laws of physics.
It's not an exclusive concept just for the 2...

[Ardent]

With you on that. Just observations as they appear.

Nowhere exploring the limits.
I have no desire to admire the sky from the comfort of a ditch.

[Call the midlife!]

With you on that. Just observations as they appear.

Nowhere exploring the limits.
I have no desire to admire the sky from the comfort of a ditch.

Generally speaking, if you put it in a ditch you'll be admiring the bottom of the dtich, roof up or down 🤓

[Petrus]

It's not an exclusive concept just for the 2...

Just more likely to be intentionally explored with an MR than with a Bavarian wagon.
It least for mé appearing as more likely.
For mé the choice for the mid engine concept over the MX to Barchetta and host of smallish FF 2+2s in between was for thís reason.

For that playful part it is not necessary to have high grip rubber. As long as it is predictable and somewhat progressive in behavior the fun is much the same. It doés become an issue at braking. Good grip for braking is imo a requirement for the playful bit.

Over hére by the way it is more rocky wall/ravine than ditch ;-)

[Joesson]

"Legend" has it that we have walls here!

[Ardent]

With you on that. Just observations as they appear.

Nowhere exploring the limits.
I have no desire to admire the sky from the comfort of a ditch.

Generally speaking, if you put it in a ditch you'll be admiring the bottom of the dtich, roof up or down 🤓

I know it would spoil your day, that's for sure.
Right now. Road conditions here are my least favorite. That greasy slimy neither one thing or the other. I feel happier, when they are fully wet.

Even just reversing off the drive, or returning home and slowly maneuvering. The changes in level between road, kerb and pavement. These tyres behave differently.
Had mentioned before (on here or privately) and got torn to bits. But the one thing that is unmistakable. They are more comfortable than the worn out tyres they replaced.

[Petrus]

"Legend" has it that we have walls here!

Hegdes and hollow roads too.
None of that here in the mountains.

Mind, there are enough ditches here, just more plentyful/worrysome ravines. The upside of which is the views.