The Rabbit Hole

[Akayfortyseven]

Hi all,

Ive had an '02 PFL for nearly 3 years now (time flies!), its always burnt a little oil, but seems to be getting worse.

In addition to this it needed handbrake cables doing amongst other bits to get its MOT (Covid extended, now expired!). Been doing an extension so its been sat for months.

I have set it up in the garage on stands and had a poke around. The engine is leaking at every possible gasket/joint/seal it seems. I had previously replaced the rocker cover, tensioner seals to spec when I first bought the car, but it really does seem that its getting worse.

Compression is down on cyl 3 and the others are within 10-15 of eachother.

In addition, the gearbox is leaking - but this may be the engine seal leaking through? I replaced the clutch ~2 years ago and noted the inside of the box was very oily, but put it down to the previous leaks. I didnt remove the flywheel so didnt really have any clue if it was engine related. It also crunches (slightly), when cold between 1-2.

I have sourced (from Matt Performance) a 'good' FL engine along with a JDM gearbox with LSD.

Ive heard the above would be a good improvement over stock and hopefully sort my engine woes.

Whilst I am 'here' is there anything else worth doing? Engine and box will be fully out. I dont want to go mad, but at the same time, Im in no rush to use the car urgently, so can take the time on things. Im considering lightweight flywheel etc.

I have already overhauled the suspension (teins + KYB, polybushes, subframe refurbed) and brakes (new calipers, lines, discs and pads) during lockdown 1.

I want to retain a useable car, it isnt a daily, but I dont use it enough to warrant big spends.

Advice welcome - cheers.

[1979scotte]

Sorry there is no such thing as a good used engine unless it's been opened and inspected.
Have you checked the engine number to see what year its from.
I'm sure @Carolyn can advise what should be done at a minimum while the engine is out of the car.

[Joesson]

Good advice above ( and below) .
Not often mentioned are the drive shaft CV joints and boots. I would check the boots for signs of splitting, if any signs replace, and splits or not clean out and regrease the joints
Not that end of the car but you are going to be refilling with coolant so I would check the condition of pipes/hoses and the radiator. I doubt that is still OE and any replacement could be coming up for another.

[Carolyn]

I would (at the very least), take the cam cover off the engine and see how clean or dirty it is inside. 

If it's on the dark side of light brown, I'd want to give it a light rebuild.  If it looks clean, then it's worth taking the risk of just popping it in.

The JDM box with LSD is a good one for B road scratching but it's lousy on the motorway.  Believe me, I know 'cos I've got one in my car.  I do very little highspeed highway driving, so it's great for me.  If long journeys are your thing- I'd want a six speed!

As for number and year -they are ALL old used engines and it's all down to how well they have been maintained.

If it looks clean - it's had regular oil changes, if it's dirty - it hasn't.

I suspect your persistent oil leak on the engine (not the one near the gearbox) is down to using an OEM O ring on the chain tensioner?  When to replacement engine goes in - put a new O ring on.  I'll send you one that is slightly fatter and does the job properly. Just PM me.  No charge -it's a club courtesy!

[Akayfortyseven]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the advice.

Matt has inspected the engine and advised it is good and clean oil etc. Its got to be better than the one I have here!

Re. the box ratios, how much worse is it?

Carolyn, it was an OEM ring from Toyota, yes. Thats very kind of you, PM Coming your way.

[1979scotte]

If its not in the car it's worth giving it the once over and it's definitely worth checking the engine No.

The Japanese 5 speed is sought-after by those who race them it makes a noticeable difference on track. You will miss a 6 speed if you do long distance.

[Ardent]

As for number and year -they are ALL old used engines and it's all down to how well they have been maintained.

As usual. Nailed it right there.

[Akayfortyseven]

If its not in the car it's worth giving it the once over and it's definitely worth checking the engine No.

The Japanese 5 speed is sought-after by those who race them it makes a noticeable difference on track. You will miss a 6 speed if you do long distance.

I dont have a 6 speed at the moment. I dont do 'long' journeys in it really, mainly b roads and the like, it isnt a daily driver.

Any way I can check over the engine, anything to look for? Im assuming checking under the rocker cover for black oil deposits etc.?

[1979scotte]

If its not in the car it's worth giving it the once over and it's definitely worth checking the engine No.

The Japanese 5 speed is sought-after by those who race them it makes a noticeable difference on track. You will miss a 6 speed if you do long distance.

I dont have a 6 speed at the moment. I dont do 'long' journeys in it really, mainly b roads and the like, it isnt a daily driver.

Any way I can check over the engine, anything to look for? Im assuming checking under the rocker cover for black oil deposits etc.?

It's perfect for weekend toy duties for sure.

[Carolyn]

I'd suggest taking a couple of pics of what's under the cam cover and posting them here.

[1979scotte]

I'd suggest taking a couple of pics of what's under the cam cover and posting them here.

Engine porn!
Yay!

[Carolyn]

O ring on the way!  If you haven't read it, there's an article on the chain tensioner in 'How To'.

[Akayfortyseven]

Hi @Carolyn received it this morning!

Thanks a lot, much apprieciated. I had done the job a while back with an OEM replacement, but its already failed again!

[shnazzle]

Hi @Carolyn received it this morning!

Thanks a lot, much apprieciated. I had done the job a while back with an OEM replacement, but its already failed again!

Make sure you lubricate it when fitting and it's on straight. I've seen a video where someone rolled it on dry and the ring was twisted. That's going to fail.

Tighten the bolts equally, a bit on each one, not one all the way and then the other.

[Akayfortyseven]

By way of an update, FL engine, JDM LSD box + lightweight flywheel all fitted and running beautifully! I did a new sump on the engine as well as waterpump, tensioner O ring (thanks, @Carolyn ) and resealed the timing chain cover. Pleased to report its all as clean as a whistle now. The old engine on inspection was leaking from the crank seal amongst other areas.

Whilst there I did the radiator and coolant, handbrake cables, renewed the rusty brake lines and wire brushed/Hydrate/stonechipped some suspect areas. Pleasently surprised with how solid she is underneath though. I also gave the bay a good degrease and clean up.

Unfortunately the aircon has been removed. The compressor is junk after testing, the pipes had a bit of damage and the condensor on the front was split in half. That would explain why it was unplugged then...!

Final bits to do are Whiteline ARBs and droplinks all round (should be coming today), new boots on the control arms, and bumpers back on. MOT booked for Friday. Im beyond excited.

[Akayfortyseven]

Also, was wondering if theres any parts off my old engine that would be useful to keep, for the forum or myself, before I weigh it in?

[Joesson]

Also, was wondering if theres any parts off my old engine that would be useful to keep, for the forum or myself, before I weigh it in?

@Carolyn aka keeper of the Club Bucket Bank, would likely be pleased to receive the cam buckets at least.

[Akayfortyseven]

Ive heard about this. Is it easy to remove them? Im assuming its rocker off, cams out?

[Carolyn]

Also, was wondering if there's any parts off my old engine that would be useful to keep, for the forum or myself, before I weigh it in?

As Joesson said -the valve buckets.  Yes it's cam cover off, cams out. The VVTI hub is worth saving too. 

Also the belt tensioner, the oil filler cap, the throttle body, the idler pulley (if it's not too sloppy), the plastic engine cover, and harvest a few nuts and bolts(the Toyota ones are very high quality and quite a few are hard to come by (like the little dome nuts on the top of the engine cover and the flanged M6 nuts). Also coil packs and injectors.

[Akayfortyseven]

Thanks.

Yes Il take most if not all of the bolts for my stash.

Which bit is the VVTI hub please - is it the bit that has the little filter on, timing chain side?

[Call the midlife!]

Thanks.

Yes Il take most if not all of the bolts for my stash.

Which bit is the VVTI hub please - is it the bit that has the little filter on, timing chain side?

The VVTi hub is the large assembly on the end of the camshaft, as opposed to the other one that just has the sprocket on.

I think what you're talking about is the vvt oil control valve, also worth saving if it's in good condition.

[Carolyn]

Thanks.

Yes Il take most if not all of the bolts for my stash.

Which bit is the VVTI hub please - is it the bit that has the little filter on, timing chain side?

The VVTi hub is the large assembly on the end of the camshaft, as opposed to the other one that just has the sprocket on.

I think what you're talking about is the vvt oil control valve, also worth saving if it's in good condition.

And the filter!

[thetyrant]

If your popping the cams out to get the buckets out might be worth trying to get the valve keepers (little wedge shaped things holding valve in) out of the retainers on top of spring, i and others have misplaced them in past rebuilding head and they are hard to get hold of, i was lucky C had some spares but always good to get some more spares in the club

[Akayfortyseven]

By way of an update, I dropped the car off for MoT today.

Now I have the long wait till 4pm whilst 'working'...!

Have to say the handbrake is worrying me. New cables (not genuine though) but it was very difficult to set up. Im assuming this is because the brakes had stuck a bit over the last 8 months. Calipers were recon units fitted around May/June last year.

Overall I am very happy with it on the short blast to the MoT. I need to realign the UJ (dont fit them with the front wheels in the air..!), and refit the bin plastics but otherwise it drives great and the lightweight flywheel makes it feel really special!

I will be making a start on stripping bits of the old engine this weekend.

Thanks

[1979scotte]

By way of an update, I dropped the car off for MoT today.

Now I have the long wait till 4pm whilst 'working'...!

Have to say the handbrake is worrying me. New cables (not genuine though) but it was very difficult to set up. Im assuming this is because the brakes had stuck a bit over the last 8 months. Calipers were recon units fitted around May/June last year.

Overall I am very happy with it on the short blast to the MoT. I need to realign the UJ (dont fit them with the front wheels in the air..!), and refit the bin plastics but otherwise it drives great and the lightweight flywheel makes it feel really special!

I will be making a start on stripping bits of the old engine this weekend.

Thanks

It's 425pm what happened