Loosing a lot of oil.

[almitch1]

Hi All,

I have just finished doing a few bits on my car I thought I would check the oil levels as I was there. I know I have to change the chain tension o ring and the cam cover gasket but I have lost a lot of oil from 2/3's ish on the dip stick to near the bottom in a matter of weeks.

I have had the car looked at a few weeks back to give it a once over and they said that I needed a new cam cover gasket and that the sump needed re sealing. I have attached some pictures, is there anything else I should look for?

[jonbill]

I think you should be prepared for it being an oil burner even after you've fixed those seals.
sorry.

[almitch1]

I think you should be prepared for it being an oil burner even after you've fixed those seals.
sorry.

is there anyway of making it less of an oil burner or is that just a trait of the car? I dont mind it being to much of an oil burner just no an oil leaker..

Just out of interest do you know how low the oil is before the oil light comes on? it never has in my car but i wandered when it did?

Thanks

[Joesson]

I think you should be prepared for it being an oil burner even after you've fixed those seals.
sorry.

is there anyway of making it less of an oil burner or is that just a trait of the car? I dont mind it being to much of an oil burner just no an oil leaker..

Just out of interest do you know how low the oil is before the oil light comes on? it never has in my car but i wandered when it did?

Thanks

It is the trait of any engine if not regularly and correctly maintained. Nothing lasts forever but there is / was one Member on here that got more than 200k miles from new and still going last I read.
In the cars I have had very few had a warning light for low oil level, most, including the MR2 Roadster have a low pressure indicator.
If this stays on after a few seconds of starting that generally means the oil pressure is too low to ensure correct movement of the oil around the system and the engine is not far away from seizing. That likely means the engine is scrapped. If not run into this condition there is a reasonable chance of repair.
To marginally extend the life of the engine that yours seems to be in you must keep the oil level near full rather than near empty.
There is little point in using an expensive premium oil, I suggest the recommended 5w- 30w as cheap as you can buy.

[Dev]

Probably about a quart but It's based on the oil pressure not oil level. Once the oil light is lit consider the engine done. Even if you're running low and you make a turn at a sustained speed you will starve the bearings and will cause a catastrophic event.
What I would do is fill up the oil and see how long before it reaches the bottom. If your suspicions are real consider  A used low mileage engine.

In the interim I would run a heavy weight oil to retard the rate of consumption.

[ManInDandism]

I think you should be prepared for it being an oil burner even after you've fixed those seals.
sorry.

is there anyway of making it less of an oil burner or is that just a trait of the car? I dont mind it being to much of an oil burner just no an oil leaker..

Just out of interest do you know how low the oil is before the oil light comes on? it never has in my car but i wandered when it did?

Thanks

It is the trait of any engine if not regularly and correctly maintained. Nothing lasts forever but there is / was one Member on here that got more than 200k miles from new and still going last I read.
In the cars I have had very few had a warning light for low oil level, most, including the MR2 Roadster have a low pressure indicator.
If this stays on after a few seconds of starting that generally means the oil pressure is too low to ensure correct movement of the oil around the system and the engine is not far away from seizing. That likely means the engine is scrapped. If not run into this condition there is a reasonable chance of repair.
To marginally extend the life of the engine that yours seems to be in you must keep the oil level near full rather than near empty.
There is little point in using an expensive premium oil, I suggest the recommended 5w- 30w as cheap as you can buy.

I would suggest that 'not regularly/correctly maintained' is a bit strong!  Can just be a trait of the engine period since owners' manual does suggest up to 1 litre every 600 miles.  Also well documented for other Toyota models of the era. 

So what sort of maintenance would you be suggesting to avert this? Do remember that we are talking about cars that are at least 15 years old.

[almitch1]

Probably about a quart but It's based on the oil pressure not oil level. Once the oil light is lit consider the engine done. Even if you're running low and you make a turn at a sustained speed you will starve the bearings and will cause a catastrophic event.
What I would do is fill up the oil and see how long before it reaches the bottom. If your suspicions are real consider  A used low mileage engine.

In the interim I would run a heavy weight oil to retard the rate of consumption.

Wow i wasnt expecting such a bad diagnosis.... Where else can oil leak from?

[Dev]

Probably about a quart but It's based on the oil pressure not oil level. Once the oil light is lit consider the engine done. Even if you're running low and you make a turn at a sustained speed you will starve the bearings and will cause a catastrophic event.
What I would do is fill up the oil and see how long before it reaches the bottom. If your suspicions are real consider  A used low mileage engine.

In the interim I would run a heavy weight oil to retard the rate of consumption.

Wow i wasnt expecting such a bad diagnosis.... Where else can oil leak from?

At this point you don't really know. All you have are suspicions based on some loose assumptions observing the dipstick reading.

You need to fill up the oil to the top and learn how to read the oil level from the dipstick as it can be a little tricky. Once that is done note the number of miles as you keep checking until it is 1/4 on the dipstick. Once you have that information you will have a good idea where it's coming from. It could be you have quite a bit of seepage from the seals or the oil is going past the rings.
Have you remove the pre-cats yet? If not you need to investigate this to see if they are damaged.

[almitch1]

Probably about a quart but It's based on the oil pressure not oil level. Once the oil light is lit consider the engine done. Even if you're running low and you make a turn at a sustained speed you will starve the bearings and will cause a catastrophic event.
What I would do is fill up the oil and see how long before it reaches the bottom. If your suspicions are real consider  A used low mileage engine.

In the interim I would run a heavy weight oil to retard the rate of consumption.

I was told when i bough the car that the pre cats have been done but i don't have any proof of this. maybe my short time as a 2 owner will be cut short.



Wow i wasnt expecting such a bad diagnosis.... Where else can oil leak from?

At this point you don't really know. All you have are suspicions based on some loose assumptions observing the dipstick reading.

You need to fill up the oil to the top and learn how to read the oil level from the dipstick as it can be a little tricky. Once that is done note the number of miles as you keep checking until it is 1/4 on the dipstick. Once you have that information you will have a good idea where it's coming from. It could be you have quite a bit of seepage from the seals or the oil is going past the rings.
Have you remove the pre-cats yet? If not you need to investigate this to see if they are damaged.

[shnazzle]

Could just be that someone refitted the cam cover with a crap gasket...
It's 30 mins tops to do and 20gbp for a good gasket.

Could remove the cover, clean it up. New gasket. Top up oil and watch.
Burning is expected to a certain degree. Leaking is just... Something is leaking...

[Joesson]

I think you should be prepared for it being an oil burner even after you've fixed those seals.
sorry.

is there anyway of making it less of an oil burner or is that just a trait of the car? I dont mind it being to much of an oil burner just no an oil leaker..

Just out of interest do you know how low the oil is before the oil light comes on? it never has in my car but i wandered when it did?

Thanks

It is the trait of any engine if not regularly and correctly maintained. Nothing lasts forever but there is / was one Member on here that got more than 200k miles from new and still going last I read.
In the cars I have had very few had a warning light for low oil level, most, including the MR2 Roadster have a low pressure indicator.
If this stays on after a few seconds of starting that generally means the oil pressure is too low to ensure correct movement of the oil around the system and the engine is not far away from seizing. That likely means the engine is scrapped. If not run into this condition there is a reasonable chance of repair.
*To marginally extend the life of the engine that yours seems to be in you must keep the oil level near full rather than near empty.
There is little point in using an expensive premium oil, I suggest the recommended 5w- 30w as cheap as you can buy.

I would suggest that 'not regularly/correctly maintained' is a bit strong!  Can just be a trait of the engine period since owners' manual does suggest up to 1 litre every 600 miles.  Also well documented for other Toyota models of the era. 

* So what sort of maintenance would you be suggesting to avert this? Do remember that we are talking about cars that are at least 15 years old.

The OP was referring to the oil light in relation  to quantity of oil, my answer was trying to explain and address  that.
Checking the oil level regularly if you have a leak is worth a mention.
If the low level " about a quart" missing was due to leakage only I suggest there  would be evidence under the car.

[Carolyn]

It's not all doom and gloom, even if it's an oil burner.  Many folk have got thousands of fun miles out of oil burners.  If one gets used the the consumption rate , it's not hard to keep it topped up and safe from self-deconstruction. 

Unfortunately, O rings and cam-cover gasket tend to weep slowly and, while they do make a grubby mess in your engine bay, they usually aren't responsible for major oil disappearances.

Unfortunately used low-mileage engines just aren't out there in the UK.

As others have advised, the best course of action is to keep a record of mileage and oil consumption and let us know what you find.

I've rebuilt a few of these engines to correct oil consumption, and one always finds oil control rings gummed into their grooves.  No amount of Marvel Mystery Oil or other potion will free them up, I'm afraid.

I know.  I've tried everything!

But, please, don't be too discouraged.  Many a member has overcome the issue and ended up with a great little car that is even more personal and special for being saved and preserved.

I believe Ian ('@thetyrant')  has just built up an engine that is an 'extra'.....

In the meantime - I can still send you an O ring!!

[almitch1]

It's not all doom and gloom, even if it's an oil burner.  Many folk have got thousands of fun miles out of oil burners.  If one gets used the the consumption rate , it's not hard to keep it topped up and safe from self-deconstruction. 

Unfortunately, O rings and cam-cover gasket tend to weep slowly and, while they do make a grubby mess in your engine bay, they usually aren't responsible for major oil disappearances.

Unfortunately used low-mileage engines just aren't out there in the UK.

As others have advised, the best course of action is to keep a record of mileage and oil consumption and let us know what you find.

I've rebuilt a few of these engines to correct oil consumption, and one always finds oil control rings gummed into their grooves.  No amount of Marvel Mystery Oil or other potion will free them up, I'm afraid.

I know.  I've tried everything!

But, please, don't be too discouraged.  Many a member has overcome the issue and ended up with a great little car that is even more personal and special for being saved and preserved.

I believe Ian ('@Tyrant')  has just built up an engine that is an 'extra'.....

In the meantime- I can still send you an O ring!!

Thanks Carolyn,

You have already sent me one which i will be fitting at the weekend.

Thanks

[Dev]

What I'm gonna say next it's just a general observation and it doesn't mean necessarily that it's your situation. I have seen throughout the years people unload their oil burning cars on someone else. This is usually discovered by the new owner shortly after ownership.

It is quite possible that the previous owner had a pre-cat event that led them to gut the rest of the pre cats. there is no saving the car once the pre-cats have come apart because by that time the damage is already done.
I don't know this particular car to hedge that judgment so I would first do a consumption test.

[almitch1]

What I'm gonna say next it's just a general observation and it doesn't mean necessarily that it's your situation. I have seen throughout the years people unload their oil burning cars on someone else. This is usually discovered by the new owner shortly after ownership.

It is quite possible that the previous owner had a pre-cat event that led them to gut the rest of the pre cats. there is no saving the car once the pre-cats have come apart because by that time the damage is already done.
I don't know this particular car to hedge that judgment so I would first do a consumption test.

The previous owner said he had the pre cats done. But i guess i will never know until the time my car ceases...lol.

Is there any smells or smokes i should be looking out for?

Thanks

[Dev]

What I'm gonna say next it's just a general observation and it doesn't mean necessarily that it's your situation. I have seen throughout the years people unload their oil burning cars on someone else. This is usually discovered by the new owner shortly after ownership.

It is quite possible that the previous owner had a pre-cat event that led them to gut the rest of the pre cats. there is no saving the car once the pre-cats have come apart because by that time the damage is already done.
I don't know this particular car to hedge that judgment so I would first do a consumption test.

The previous owner said he had the pre cats done. But i guess i will never know until the time my car ceases...lol.

Is there any smells or smokes i should be looking out for?

Thanks

Hard to tell. I have seen one burn lots of oil more than what is acceptable without smoke. The other one I seen was a smoke factory. 
The problem with keeping an oil burner is you have to check the oil regularly and top it off if you plan to do any performance driving. If the oil gets to a point where it's low and you go around the bend it will damage the engine.
 If you find yourself adding a quart every week what I would do at that point is do an engine flush with one of the safer oil flushes from Motul. This can help clean up the rings and drainage holes. Follow this up with a 5W-40 Motor oil and see if the consumption goes down. Some of these newer synthetic oil's are able to clean up varnished engines and restore them back to better health. 

[shnazzle]

Best not jump to conclusions of doom and gloom.
Been there, got the t-shirt, looked a fool.

I paid 17gbp delivered for a cam cover gasket.
It's next to no effort replacing it.
Then you monitor. If it's doom and gloom, we'll cross that bridge then

[Ardent]

All of the above.
Top up to full. Monitor.
Anything less than a litre per 1000km (621miles) is in spec. As per the handbook, if you have one.

[almitch1]

All of the above.
Top up to full. Monitor.
Anything less than a litre per 1000km (621miles) is in spec. As per the handbook, if you have one.

[/quote

I haven't done 1000km in it since I've have it and I've lost more that that. I guess I need to do the changes to gaskets and o rings and monitor again.

Thanks

[m1tch]

The 1zz is known to have a piston flaw with the oil control ring holes, they clog up if the engine hasn't been perfectly serviced - they are far too small. Toyota revised the piston design in the very very late cars to fix the issue with larger oil drain holes.

It might be fine as it could just be leaks from the cam cover gasket and tensionor O ring but the engine is well known to burn oil, some are fine, some have issues - mine was on almost 180k miles before I pulled it to put in a forged engine, didn't really burn any oil.

[Carolyn]

Are there any drips on the floor under the car?

[Mr2paul]

As Carolyn says,. The pics seem to say a slight seep but nothing out of the ordinary. I was surprised nobody up until today mentioned any evidence on the drive or road. I bought mine as an " oil user " but I serviced straight away and in 1k Mls since have not had to top up but, have signs of slight leakage on the drive but not alarming at all and will fix on a nice day soon. Keep a regular check on oil level, get underneath and have a good look, check drive or your regular parking place and don't be alarmed, my advise anyway.

[almitch1]

****UPDATE****

I have changed the gasket and o ring in the chain tensioner and i notice alot of oil all down the right hand side of the engine.....

Also how do you access the crank shaft pulley to get the tensioner to "click" my ratchets are all to wide?

Thanks

[Carolyn]

Put the car in high gear and roll it forward.  Use a hand on the tyre to help it move.

Right hand side suggests O ring misbehaviour. Can make a real mess over time!

[Mark A]

You're not having much luck with the car but as others have said don't lose faith just yet.

You are not far from Patrick Chambers who is very knowable on MR2 and has done a bit of work for me. I'd be tempted to have a think, take the advice here and see if the oil consumption goes down and if you can't live with it then see if Patrick and re-build or look out for a used engine from one of known and respected mr2 recyclers. I noticed on FB Patrick said he charges £300 to swap an engine if you supply the parts. I don't know how mechanically mind you are but these are pretty easy cars to work on, I've certainly done a number of gearbox and engine changes on my drive.