Mk3 turbo - trying to put a value on it!

[MattAiello]

Hi all,

Not sure if you guys can provide some wisdom on this... after finishing my mk3 turbo project, i am thinking of selling (long story). Despite this now being my 7th MR2 (2 mk1s, 2 mk2s and 3 mk3s!) i have never had a turbo Mk3 and no idea what they're worth and mine is a very different car now to the one i bought (so defo worth more than what i paid for it). The odd ones that come up tend to vary wildly in terms of spec / fit / history etc. For mine, 58k miles sable, GT26 RS / Apexi Power FC MonkeyWrench kit (fitted by Whifbitz and tuned by Protuner), full tein suspension, short shift, custom exhaust by Torqueflow, new 17s etc (£15k of mods) - i would say its as clean as it can be. My question then is:

- Is there a club-recommended going rate for these? Or from members experience a sensible price point?

Noting admin rules, this isn't an ad - an honest ask for advice to avoid it being on the market for the next 10 years or doing myself out by underpricing!

Many thanks all - hope you're all well,

Matt

[Topdownman]

Sounds like a nice car. Are you sure you want to sell it? Lots of people sell their roadsters only to regret it later. If you have spent 15k on it, you know you arent going to get that back but if you sell, you will have to spend it all again if you want the same quality of car again.

Look at what you can get for the price you may receive and I dont it will be as much fun!

I would start on autotrader or ebay asking a price that you dont think you will get and see what happens, you can always come down but if you price what you think is low and it sells straight away, you will be left wondering if you have undersold it.

[MattAiello]

Thanks for getting back mate. Fortunately i didn't spend £15k on it! In total it owes me personally about 8500. Not sure if that's likely to be realistic, but you're right, it's a hell of a car and i doubt i'd find something that ticks so many boxes. The turbo is seriously addictive but the 1zz is absolutely fine as a round-town fast daily off-boost. Just an all-round versatile ride. I've always regretted it after selling my 2s, but i've got to scratch the american muscle itch now after years on jap sports cars (don't shoot me!) and so am saving for a dodge challenger... god help me!

[1979scotte]

First off mate they don't make a GT26 turbo. Assume you mean GT2863RS.
You'd be better off removing the kit from the vehicle and selling separately.
I had a hell of a time selling my turbo car which was an 06 plate barely got more than the standard car was worth. Probably 1500 quid and turbo kits are worth £2500+. Yours probably more if its been tuned correctly.
Now is 100% the right time to sell lockdown is all but over and the summer is coming.

[MattAiello]

Thanks for the spot mate, I did mean gt28! Tbh I want to keep but going back to the office means long commutes... don't want to run it into the ground and I can't afford to keep as a second car! Take your point on removing turbo but it took ages to get the setup right and can't bring myself to break it up!

Thanks for the advice though, appreciate it.

[s12vea]

Did you build the car or buy it already turbo charged?
It sounds like a car that was for sale on the forum last year, I can't remember what the username was now

My advise for best return would be as above sell turbo kit separately and return the car back to standard. Turbo cars don't often demand a huge premium over stock
Which is a real shame as bang for buck they can't be beaten

Falling that take some good picture and pop a for sale post on here and see if anyone is interested. For better coverage maybe try eBay.

[s12vea]

http://www.garagewhifbitz.co.uk/news/toyota-mr2-roadster-turbo-2/

This car sounds similar to yours and was advertised for sale on the forum last year for £5k and was purchased by a trader and advertised for £7k

[Gibla]

Others are certainly more highly qualified than me, but I would give a very rough estimate of anything between £4500 and £6000 as a valuation (please don't take any unintended offence if those figures seem low).

As you pointed out a standard '2' is a very capable car in its own right.

[MattAiello]

Thanks guys - that's the very car! the trader had it up for 7 - i took it for way less as it was misfiring / hunting and the roof was knackered. took that wing and wheels off, added full bodykit, 17" black rims, exhaust, audio, dynamat, interior trim and 6 painfully expensive weeks dealing with the engine issues - reconditioned the manifold, dealt with a snapped manifold bolt, replaced manifold and turbo gaskets, new actuator, pipework and a protuner tune - running perfectly at a healthy 250hp (wheels) now!! Just about to get the roof fixed.

In all honesty i know they dont go for as much as they feel like they're worth... hell of a lot of car for the money. Was going to track it, but its way too clean now! Has been a fun lockdown project (except for that bloody manifold, which wasn't fun!!) and kept me sane, so it's done its job i guess. Feels like money well spent.

Can't figure out how to add pics or i would! If you look on the protuner google reviews, i stuck a couple of pics on there.

[s12vea]

Sounds like you have done a grand job improving the car. I viewed the car many years ago and it was in a sorry state. Sounds like it's looking and driving better than ever!
When you reply to the thread there is an attachment button allowing you to post some pictures.
Look forward to seeing the cars new look.

[1979scotte]

Do you know what it makes in torque by any chance?
And who sorted out the mapping?

[MattAiello]

Thanks mate... yes it was rough when i found it but it really felt like a car which could be amazing. Not a spec of rust, body was immaculate and had some strong / sensible mods with a good history. That final tune-up made a massive difference and the interior / body mods just make it a nice place to be and nice to look at! Turbo is set on wastegate pressure to preserve it but its more than enough and i think any more than that would take it into life-threatening-speed!

[MattAiello]

Hi mate, no idea on torque figures (i asked  the tuner for a readout - was dyno and road tuned) - Mapping and tuning was done here: https://protuner.co.uk/ - Greg and the team did an amazing job.

[s12vea]

250bhp from wastegate pressure? That doesn't sound right. 

[thetyrant]

Too difficult to price imo as there are so many variables, i pondered this car when its been for sale in past on here and other platforms but just felt it sounded like was probably needing some loving, which you found out it did, good project though and well doe for sorting it all

Be good to know what boost its running ? thats a massive factor in how hard engine and clutch are being worked and all part of the valuation,  actuator could be anything from 5psi to 20psi so just saying its running wastegate/actuator doesnt really mean much.

If its been on a dyno they should be able to supply a graph showing power, torque, AFR and boost then you can see how hard its being pushed and give peace of mind for buyers etc, otherwise it could be anything and while im sure its all good who is to know if its mapped right on edge fueling or running rod bending boost etc which we have all seen in past.

[MattAiello]

Im no expert dude... just going on what they told me and the dyno results - the boost isnt adjustable from the car... so unless there's another way to increase it with a boost adjustor (mapping??)?

[MattAiello]

Thanks for the insights mate - i have asked for a dyno printout as would definitely be good to know. It feels pretty refined (not running at the ragged edge by any stretch - feels like a far more sprightly 1zz rather than sitting on missile with wheels! Really linear power delivery) but as you say that doesnt mean much without qualification.

Guess the challenge with this or any modded car is that gauging its relative value is super challenging. In honesty, its given me what i wanted and felt good to restore a car that really deserved it.

[1979scotte]

250bhp from wastegate pressure? That doesn't sound right. 

Not unless you've got a mad strong wastegate spring and tbh if it's 250 whp it needs proper EBC if that wastegate stays shut goodbye engine.

[thetyrant]

Im no expert dude... just going on what they told me and the dyno results - the boost isnt adjustable from the car... so unless there's another way to increase it with a boost adjustor (mapping??)?

Totally understand fella im just trying to point out what buyers would want to know having been in market for turbo car myself in past before i built my own, boost level is critical for engine health/durability as the stock MR2 1zz motor cant take huge numbers (for long!) with weak areas being the rods, clutch and gearbox once you start putting a lot of torque through them.

250hp is generally thought of as a lot for for a stock 1zz especially if that really is at the wheels and not flywheel, but it all depends on the torque numbers as well though hence the questions other are askin, if they havent given you graph and just said "it 250hp wheels on wastegate boost" its meaningless imo, ask them to do power run and graph for you or take it somewhere else to get the info it will help the sale of car imo, even if you have to pay £50 for someone else to run it will help sell car if all is good

[s12vea]

I agree get a dyno run so you have power figure and security for next owner that a/f safe.
Pop on eBay for a figure and allow offers and you will see what people are will to pay.
Best of luck with the sale

[MattAiello]

That's cool - i completely appreciate you and others taking the time to advise (one of the great things about this forum)... over the years it's been so helpful. With this one, every day is a school day but i've enjoyed the experience so far - and really satisfying to finally have the car feeling good.

Would be helpful to run the dyno sheet by you guys when i get it - if nothing else just to get some assurance that all is well / not well!!

[thetyrant]

Yes get the dyno sheet and we can have a look, always interested to see what other turbo cars are doing

[MattPerformance]

A dyno chart (including AFR) would go some way to demonstrating what the conversion delivers but more info about the spec (injectors, charge cooling, exhaust, clutch) is also needed, and photos of course.
As others have said, I very much doubt is making 250whp on wastegate pressure.
Ultimately, the best proof of the pudding is in the eating, so get some miles on the car and get some people out in the car (maybe even a track day or two) to prove that the setup will last more than 10 minutes. TBH, making a kit that last 10 minutes is not so difficult, but people want to buy one that has the potential to last 10 years...
And then for the rest of the car, condition is everything - it's getting on for 20 years old (as most of them are now). The variation in condition among these cars ranges from 1/10 to 10/10 (literally!), and the values vary accordingly. Photos will help, as would independent evaluation from an experienced enthusiast or specialist.

[MattAiello]

Thanks Matt - good advice. Been driving it everywhere for the last two weeks... must've put 400 miles on it! Seems to be holding up and no issues to report so far. As you say, proof of the pudding... hoping tracks open soon and can put it through its paces... it's certainly feeling ready (touchwood!)!

[thetyrant]

Looks good   tracks have been open  a few weeks now but getting space isn't easy as everyone wants to get on! I've managed to get on at croft on 3rd of May for first outing this year