#4 big end bearing

[Petrus]

As expected big end bearing #4 has gone. The crankshaft journal lightly damaged. What is the best way to go about with this?
Are there oversize shells?

Will have a look at the cilinders and plan to at least do the piston mod and fit new rings.

Yes, clutch too 

[Carolyn]

I've found that the journals a pretty tough.  You've probably got white metal pick-up on the journal.

A little fine wet and dry strip and light lube (WD type) and they usually come up just fine.

There are oversized shells available, if the crank is bad (which I doubt) a re-grind can be done.

I've got a good spare crank on the shelf....

[Petrus]

...

Thanks, thanks and double thanks.

As I will drop in a new clutch, looking at a lighter flywheel. The SMT should be better at feathering it from take off than I.
Do you by any chance have info on ebay# 402327938117 ?

[Carolyn]

Personally I don't rate light flywheels for road use.  Ally flywheel and clutch for that price- I'd run a mile!!

As you've got an SMT, I'd be concerned that it won't be happy unless it gets the inertia that it's expecting.

Hey-ho it's your car, your choice

[Petrus]

Personally I don't rate light flywheels for road use.  Ally flywheel and clutch for that price- I'd run a mile!!

As you've got an SMT, I'd be concerned that it won't be happy unless it gets the inertia that it's expecting.

Hey-ho it's your car, your choice

Was not all that full on confidence either.
Also the weight reduction is rather a lot; almost half.
There is also a steel one at 12 lbs. and a complete clutch set with 12.8 lbs steel flywheel.

Info from the US is that the SMT deals with it fine. Still...
It is just that as I have it out anyway it has become a choice. Ahhhhh choices, choices,,,,

[Joesson]

Personally I don't rate light flywheels for road use.  Ally flywheel and clutch for that price- I'd run a mile!!

As you've got an SMT, I'd be concerned that it won't be happy unless it gets the inertia that it's expecting.

Hey-ho it's your car, your choice

Was not all that full on confidence either.
Also the weight reduction is rather a lot; almost half.
There is also a steel one at 12 lbs. and a complete clutch set with 12.8 lbs steel flywheel.

Info from the US is that the SMT deals with it fine. Still...
It is just that as I have it out anyway it has become a choice. Ahhhhh choices, choices,,,,

@Dev may have some experience to offer.

[Dev]

I agree with Carolyn. If you live in a place with hills the last thing you want is a lightened flywheel. I was stuck behind a Mk1 MR2 with one at a meet in Pennsylvania which struggled up hills.
There is a local member who went against my advice on a aluminum flywheel because they can have issues but what surprised us was the steel ring gear separated. It is believed that the heat cycles created different contraction and expansion rates that can cause them to loosen up.
There is another option and that is a chromoly flywheel but it is not light enough to be worth expense.

I say try it. A person is going to do it anyway if their mind is set on it and will end up defending their choices. I only write this for some food for thought for the next guy.

[Petrus]

Was wondering about aluminium, not as much contemplating it.

Chrome-molybdenum though...
No as light either so a bit of a compromise. The OEM flywheel is supposed to weigh 16.7 lbs and the one I am looking at is 12.8. Still a single piece and only 4 lbs lighter.
There is btw not much, if any, of an advantage in chrome-moly for a flywheel. It is mostly after welding that it has the edge.

Another thing is that after market clutches have a wide range of spring rates and I most definitely want OEM rate.

About hills/mountains, I fail to see why a lighter flywheel would be at a disadvantage there. I´d say it would be traffic/city use where the car would benefit from a smoother runnning engine.

p.s. TRD offered a lighter flywheel too, noted it suitable for smt with the extra info:
 "When you install in the MR-S sequential manual transmission car, free running time at the time of shift rise * down decreases, the response for operation improves."
Which stands to reason as the logic looks at rpm and tps. The lighter the flywheel, the quicker the achtion. What a pity I don´t like the aluminium ;-)
Best not be greedy; 20-25% less flywheel mass is a lot of difference already anyway.
Bit of a tricky thing is that those with OEM will say they prefer that and those who spent money on a lighter one are not likely to say it was a mistake.
So, still on the fence. Will be having a talk with the guys in the garage. Also will be ordering the SMT only release bearing from Toyota regardless.

[Dev]

I have a fancy four puck Kevlar clutch. I wish I would have just bought the OEM because it will be the most reliable for my power level. The others with the same clutch I bought had it fail either by premature wear or the springs separating from the housing arresting the disengagement. It's fine so far but I worry about it.
Prior to this I had a OEM like clutch but it failed at the springs.

If you look closely at the OEM Aisin clutch they use rubber isolators and no springs that take the shock load. No surprises for any of the people I have recommended sticking with the factory clutch unless they are turbo.

[AJRFulton]

The fidanza flywheel + paddle clutch made my car very clumsy to drive at lower speed.

Obviously it is a track only car, and it is great once out on track - but it is very easy to stall when moving about the pits, paddock and loading on/off the trailer.

Whilst it has benefits in the track environment, on a road car I do not imagine this set up would be in any way pleasant to drive on anything other than an open flowing road, and the detriment to the driving experience would not outweigh the benefit.

[Petrus]

Thanks AJR. Makes sense. Low revs smoothness is what the flywheel is about.

Apart from that, it will be markedly noticeable in engine braking. With ana lumium one weighing half, it will be less. That is a mixed blessing on the road, with on the upside lifting into a downhill hairpin :-)

Now you also have a full race clútch with more grabby friction material and several steps stiffer pressure springs. This is a total nono on the road indeed.
Also that friction ´disc´ weighs about half that of the full circle, adding to the flywheel weight reduction.

The experience with lighter flywheels usually goes together with an uprated clutch which most definitely muddies the water.
As such I am almost convinced about the lighter steel one, especially because of the TRD mention of SMT. It remains tempting to go the whole hog though. It is the way I am wired. See the well under 900 kg weight of my road going car 

As to the starter ring coming loose, now that is an obvious possibility because it is two pieces instead of one solid thing. It is also mentioned in the info of solid flywheel sellers 
On the myriad of enthusiasts sites though there is strikingly little about it occurring bar anecdotal.

[Petrus]

I've found that the journals a pretty tough.  You've probably got white metal pick-up on the journal.

A little fine wet and dry strip and light lube (WD type) and they usually come up just fine.

Unfortunately not. Most of the journal came out just peachy but one bit not. Will have to send it out.

On one hand a pita, on the other no more excuses not to tackle the pistons & rings. The downside is the flywheel conundrum.

Ánd then there is the ´parking damage´ to sort. The insurance expert has not even called yet :-(

Ah well, no hurry as the garage has space and I have alternative transport.

[Nvy]

From my experience lightweight flywheel on a road car is a no go. The advantages can become disadvantages in some situations. That being said and the above posts my CC lightweight flywheel is not hard to drive, neither is easy to stall the car but I dont like it. The car became more noisy, there is noticeable gear lash in the tranny which on overdrive can drive you nuts. I have replaced the bearings in the tranny but still very noticeable. Havent tried a steep hill but the rev matching is improved because the revs climb a bit faster. All in all when the tranny or engine is out I will put my fat flywheel in.

[Petrus]

Thanks Nvy.
The CompClutch one sure is a neat combo of ultra light and one piece steel.

Interesting experience too. Good to know you found it not too much of a challenge for your real world use.

The noisy bit was mentioned elsewhere too but more related to the clutch used.

Will bite the bullet this weekend.

[Gaz mr-s]

I have a standard spec clutch, & an aluminium flywheel that I got as a bargain off US ebay. (NOS)  If I remember correctly it's not quite as light as a Fidenza, but I replaced about 20 of the steel screws with titanium. The car has had an engine swap after about 2000 miles & it still looked brand new.

Clutch take-up wise, there is little difference....slightly more revs needed, & that's it.

That US listing above though.....says MR2 & Celica....flywheels are different bolt pattern....?  It also stated at the bottom not for SMT, or is that just the release bearing?

[Petrus]

I have a standard spec clutch, & an aluminium flywheel that I got as a bargain off US ebay. (NOS)  If I remember correctly it's not quite as light as a Fidenza, but I replaced about 20 of the steel screws with titanium. The car has had an engine swap after about 2000 miles & it still looked brand new.

Clutch take-up wise, there is little difference....slightly more revs needed, & that's it.

That US listing above though.....says MR2 & Celica....flywheels are different bolt pattern....?  It also stated at the bottom not for SMT, or is that just the release bearing?

Good info that.
Any brand info or was it generic Chiness?

Why the titanium bolts? Saves some weight yes but itanium is more flexible no?!

1ZZ-FE has the same crank so same flywheel.

Yes, only the release bearing; it is slightly higher on the SMT.

[Dev]

For that price I would take a chance on it for fun. The worst thing that could happen is you will have to remove it and reinstall your old flywheel if you don't like it or if something goes wrong. It looks like the Fidanza flywheel and what usually happens is they are made as copies that are ripped off from the manufacture that makes them for Fidanza as they don't enforce any trade laws.
If it actually works out its a big win and if it doesn't there is a warranty or it can be wall art. They will most likely give you a refund and have you not send the part back to them.  I seen some cheap parts come out of China off late that had me skeptical but they actually worked just as good or better than the name brand stuff. 
Because competition is fierce and slave labor is cheap its possible that the price point might be realistic.

[Dev]

Double post.

[Gaz mr-s]

I have a standard spec clutch, & an aluminium flywheel that I got as a bargain off US ebay. (NOS)  If I remember correctly it's not quite as light as a Fidenza, but I replaced about 20 of the steel screws with titanium. The car has had an engine swap after about 2000 miles & it still looked brand new.

Clutch take-up wise, there is little difference....slightly more revs needed, & that's it.

That US listing above though.....says MR2 & Celica....flywheels are different bolt pattern....?  It also stated at the bottom not for SMT, or is that just the release bearing?

Good info that.
Any brand info or was it generic Chiness?

Why the titanium bolts? Saves some weight yes but itanium is more flexible no?!

1ZZ-FE has the same crank so same flywheel.

Yes, only the release bearing; it is slightly higher on the SMT.

The one I got was Addesco...no longer made afaik. Titanium.... short bolts. Just because I could...   Celica...I was thinking 2zz...my mistake.

[Petrus]

For that price I would take a chance on it for fun. The worst thing that could happen is you will have to remove it and reinstall your old flywheel if you don't like it or if something goes wrong. It looks like the Fidanza flywheel and what usually happens is they are made as copies that are ripped off from the manufacture that makes them for Fidanza as they don't enforce any trade laws.
If it actually works out its a big win and if it doesn't there is a warranty or it can be wall art. They will most likely give you a refund and have you not send the part back to them.  I seen some cheap parts come out of China off late that had me skeptical but they actually worked just as good or better than the name brand stuff. 
Because competition is fierce and slave labor is cheap its possible that the price point might be realistic.

Oh mán, you are throwing me off balance again. Was more or less decided on sticking woth OEM or go Cromoly steely and now you tell me to throw the dice ;-)

[Dev]

 Do you feel lucky. I have gone against the grain for my other hobbies with some success if the item was cheap enough or had a very good return or assurance policy. That price is too good to be true but sometimes with Chinese manufacturing with such lower labor costs it defies conventional rules.
The only problem is doing the work twice which is the same as another clutch job. If you are doing the labor it costs you nothing except your time but if its done by a shop with costly rates it can add up.


 

[Petrus]

Do you feel lucky.

Single piece has no potential separation issue, a three piece one does.
As the probablity is an unknown the risc analysis is like russian roulette with an unknown number of chambers.

The price difference between Chinese chromoly and aluminiun ones is negligeble so the ham question is; how much lbs is the uncertainty worth?
Is it worth 3 - 4 lbs.?
I think not.

On an earlier, year 1 BC, thread, did some easy calculations with the gearbox ratios to calculate the equivalent weight loss off the car with a 10 lbs flywheel and it is roughly:

1st 40Kg
2nd 25kg
3rd 15kg
4th 5kg
5th 2kg or ... next to nothing.

Averaging over the first three gears it is about 27 kg.
The lighter one´s particular car is, the larger the effect.

[Petrus]

Right.
Got the whole lot in bits.

The clutch has been replaced before, is ATE made in UK and as new. The release bearing has not been replaced. Probably because the one which comes in the kit is not suitable for the SMT.

So, need an OEM release bearing for the SMT and not a new friction group.

Have asked shipping costs for a Competition Clutch Ultralight flywheel.

p.s.  as the flywheel is in the EU the cost at the door is quite reasonable, bit that bullet.




Which is only marginally less than the TRD one that is given as

MR-S    ZZW30   1ZZ-FE   13405-TF210   Discontinued   Weight38% lighter than OE, Moment of inertia: -55％

and according to Toyota is especially effective in the SMT because of improving shift times.

Tbh not all thát convinced yet but with a supposedly say 25 kg average weight reduction effect  over the first 3 gears ánd quicker SMT.... worth a try now I have the flywheel off anyway.

Note to self:  fill the engine mounts with polyurethane now the engine is off!