Aftermarket manifolds

Started by Mr Lazy, November 30, 2021, 16:06

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Mr Lazy

I've been working on my car recently (suspension, brakes etc) and part of me is thinking, maybe I should replace the manifold too while I'm at it. While I appreciate that replacing the manifold probably won't make any real world difference to the power or torque, I do like the idea of getting as much as possible out of the standard 1ZZ rather than replacing the heart of the car with something else. The inner teenager in me also likes the thought of a slightly more throaty sounding exhaust.
Anyway, the Toyosport, Gravity, Malian and Zero headers are all currently in stock. The first three are all going for around £150 while the Zero is nearly £400. I'm struck by the differences in design. The Gravity (and possibly the Toyo, although it's hard to tell from the pictures) goes from four to two pipes very high up with correspondingly high O2 sensor positions. The Zero is the opposite, going from four to two very low down with low O2 sensors. The Malian is somewhere in the middle. These obvious differences must make a difference to performance, surely? Even if peak power and torque are about the same for each, do these design differences alter the power and torque curves?

I'd really like to hear from people who have experience of at least two of these models who can make a side by side comparison. I have searched the forum and seen previous discussions, but nothing really addresses this.

Carolyn

I've use the Toyosports on my car and on a couple of others.  Good value for money.  I do believe in wrapping them to keep the engine bay temperature down . And it does speed up exhaust gasses, providing a slightly better mid-range performance.

I've also put a Zero on a friend's car.  Very high quality and also gives improved mid-range performance.  I wrapped that one too.  I wouldn't want to try to wrap one the on the car, it's definitely a 'bench job'.

Any new manifold will be all shiny, but they go 'matt' quite quickly, so don't let the shininess stop you wrapping it.  10 metres of good quality (heavy duty) titanium wrap (the brown stuff) is ample.  Wear long sleeves and gloves, it's worse than fibreglass for getting in the skin.

I've also seen a couple of others that looked ok until I had a good peek inside and saw big bits of tubing protruding and really poor weld quality.

The Toyosport is often out of stock, so, if you want one, jump on it!



There are threads that cover this - but hey-ho, it's not always easy to find them.
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

Iain

I have the gravity one and wrapped it, all good.

Zero exhausts are of the highest quality, (i have the sports cat) and their design is how a manifold should be with equal length headers for optimum performance. Probably not going to be noticable on the 1zz but thats why it costs over double. Also they're not mass produced, just a man running a business.

shnazzle

Lucky enough to have put down for a Zero. It's indeed equal length, which seems to play well with the 1zz.
The important part of the Zero is also the wider runners. By quite a bit over stock.
Stock is aimed at maximising low down torque (believe it or not). The Zero is more of a screamer. Really comes alive at 3k rpm + and then you see where you've spent your money. Paired with a good quality sports cat, it genuinely adds power.
Aside from the fact that it's clearly high quality stainless steel. As someone on here said; they're all steel, but there's "steel" and there's "steel".
We have 2 MR2s. One is stock, completely, mine with Zero and sports cat and wider throttle body. The stock actually seems to want to get off the start blocks with more oomph. More suited to town driving. Mine feels like you need to rev it a bit more. 
But then open it up on a b-road and mine very clearly pulls away. But later. The latter suits my driving more. Mine saw a lot of time between 4500-6500rpm. A lot. 
The stock is a lovely balanced cruiser with all the equipment to have fun in the twisties. 

Toyo is same as stock, but without the pre-cat chambers. It's a good of mani for what you pay. So the sensors are actually in a very similar position to stock (in the top of the pre-cats).

Malian is.. Fine. 

There's also the PPE. needs a bit of sensor fiddling but is the only 4-1 design I know of. Not generally associated with 4-cyls but seems to go well on an MR2. Maybe because of the short exhaust length? Also very expensive.
...neutiquam erro.

Mr Lazy

Thanks for the replies. @shnazzle that's really interesting what you said and exactly the kind of information I was looking for. Especially regarding the Zero. The Zero header and mid section looks like a great combination, but an eye watering total price. I did search for PPE previously but couldn't find a website or any sellers. Am I right in thinking that 4-1 headers boost high end power at the expense of low end torque, compared with 4-2-1 headers?

shnazzle

Quote from: Mr Lazy on November 30, 2021, 23:18Thanks for the replies. @shnazzle that's really interesting what you said and exactly the kind of information I was looking for. Especially regarding the Zero. The Zero header and mid section looks like a great combination, but an eye watering total price. I did search for PPE previously but couldn't find a website or any sellers. Am I right in thinking that 4-1 headers boost high end power at the expense of low end torque, compared with 4-2-1 headers?
Correct. 4-1 basically for race or high rpm engines. 

You'll notice for example that the stock 2zz header is 4-1 (technically 4-2-1 due to the baffle in the collector but it's like 2cm from the "1")

The stock 1zz doesn't really seem to flow enough (stock) to make the 4-1 work well other than for a slightly higher peak power. 
But on a high-lift cammed 1zz or 2zz,.the PPE is better. 
But again.. To demonstrate how sensitive the balance is; members have reported that the PPE with stg1 Crower cams does not work. But on Stg2 it does. The pulses work against the scavenging effect with those Crower cams specifically it seems. Piper might be different. 

All in all.. You want 4-2-1 because it matches the capacity and pulses of the 1zz better. Better scavenging mid-range and low. On the Zero, the wider runners and big and very profiled collector means some gains up high as well. Certainly no losses. Also the bends on the Zero are smooth as butter and even. 

Zero is not the be-all-end-all mind. It's a great mid-range option. A properly tuned and designed exhaust manifold will run you 4 figures.
...neutiquam erro.

Call the midlife!

Monkey Wrench Racing supply the PPE but only as a combination kit with a downpipe, you're going to be in over a grand by the time it's shipped over...
60% of the time it works everytime...

McMr2

Do the Toyo manifolds have the lower brackets for securing to the block? Hard to tell from their photos and seem to recall this being discussed some time ago.
2004 Silver. Stock(ish).

shnazzle

Quote from: McMr2 on December  7, 2021, 14:43Do the Toyo manifolds have the lower brackets for securing to the block? Hard to tell from their photos and seem to recall this being discussed some time ago.
Unless my memory fails me (happening more and more), no it doesn't have the brackets.
...neutiquam erro.

moca2cv

Quote from: shnazzle on December  7, 2021, 20:26
Quote from: McMr2 on December  7, 2021, 14:43Do the Toyo manifolds have the lower brackets for securing to the block? Hard to tell from their photos and seem to recall this being discussed some time ago.
Unless my memory fails me (happening more and more), no it doesn't have the brackets.

Just removed a Toyosports and can confirm there is no bracket. The Zero does have it though!

moca2cv

I couldn't get the Zero to work with stock brackets... will have to figure something else out, but in the meantime it's just dangling quite happily :)

So having had a bit of time to enjoy it, the Zero mani/Zero mid/shorter final drive combo is a fuel economy nightmare 😈

It's not long been on but I am fast wondering why people bother with any other aftermarket manifold. Yes it's expensive compared to Chinese manifolds, but it's cheap compared to most high quality manifolds on the market. It's not as high a standard as my go to fab guy, but it's half the price so 🤷🏼‍♂️

shnazzle

#11
Quote from: moca2cv on February  8, 2022, 23:13I couldn't get the Zero to work with stock brackets... will have to figure something else out, but in the meantime it's just dangling quite happily :)

So having had a bit of time to enjoy it, the Zero mani/Zero mid/shorter final drive combo is a fuel economy nightmare 😈

It's not long been on but I am fast wondering why people bother with any other aftermarket manifold. Yes it's expensive compared to Chinese manifolds, but it's cheap compared to most high quality manifolds on the market. It's not as high a standard as my go to fab guy, but it's half the price so 🤷🏼‍♂️
I bet you did the same thing my exhaust place did... The bracket is wrong way around. The zero definitely fits in the bracket
...neutiquam erro.

Gibla

We chatted about manifolds @Mezula24 , this thread would be a very useful background read for you
stock 2001 Dark Green MR-S (6R4)
stock 2004 Black - repurchased from guy who bought yellow 'un
stock 2000 Light Green(Cape Green)

J88TEO

Quote from: shnazzle on February  9, 2022, 07:02I bet you did the same thing my exhaust place did... The bracket is wrong way around. The zero definitely fits in the bracket
I had no problem fitting the one I got from @shnazzle though I had to drill the holes slightly bigger.

Petrus

Have a Toyo type with fittings for the original heat shields. With the precats gone it runs cooler and looks dead stock with the sensor located spot on for the heat shield.

Going for a zero manifold imo only makes sense when matched to a better mid pipe/sports cat. as that is the bottle neck. The OEM muffler is not half bad flowing for the n.a. 1ZZ, Just heavy.