2ZZ swap - ballpark cost

Started by J88TEO, September 12, 2022, 23:40

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AJRFulton

#25
Quote from: Carolyn on September 15, 2022, 12:32The history of 2ZZ swapped cars having blow-ups in the club is quite packed!

@shnazzle has often observed how many have gone pop!

I think is because folk have just swapped in used engines, usually with 80,000+ mils on them, and not really taken into account that they were probably well thrashed throughout their lives, given that lift only happens at high RPM.  Putting such an engine on the track, with all the abuse that entails, is bound to end badly fairly quickly.

I'm sure there are those who've been lucky and got away with it, nut they are very much in the minority.

The cost of going thoroughly through a 2ZZ engine to get it in top shape for track use, has to be close to a grand (if you do it yourself), plus mechanic's time if you pay for the job.

The 2ZZ seems to fare a lot worse than say, the K20 - and not just in swapped cars. The 2ZZ's track record with cars where it is the OEM engine isn't great either. But as said Lotus application doesn't seem to have the same issues.

Mostly seems to be oil starvation issues with the 2ZZ, and even taking the precautions (sump/pump/etc) doesn't eliminate that. I've had 2 oil starvation failures, and I've did everything short of a dry sump to prevent it! I personally know of 5x 2ZZ's (3x MR2's, a Corolla and an Elise) that have went bang at the same long right hander at Croft, all with spinning a bearing, all with baffled sumps as a minimum.

Although I think a street car application the 2ZZ is absolutely fine.

JB21

#26
I'm on my 3rd 2ZZ.

1st 80k mile unit bottom end damage due to low oil, this was due to Rogue motorsports not spacing the dipstick correctly on the build.

2nd 155k mile unit bottom end damage, this was my error shifting from 5th to 2nd at 100mph

3rd 80k mile unit still running strong after 7 track days....

IME the 2ZZ is a strong engine given its nature of high revving. Both bottom end damaged engines where still drivable and I even managed both times to drive over 3 miles off track with Zero valve train damage on both. This is only testament to how well they are put together IMO.

I know there have been a lot of other blown engines but I'd bet a lot are down to poor maintenance & rebuilds, non-compatible supporting mods and user error like my example. My 155k mile example was varnished to hell, I mean bad but it still ran fine up until I lunched it.

I mention above my next engine will be a K20 but this is not for reliability, more for increased displacement and available mods so I dont have to go FI. I see all engines as disposable the way I use them on track.

J88TEO

Quote from: The Other Stu on September 15, 2022, 11:44Someone was selling the whole lot - including Apexi ECU - for £2.75k on Facebook the other day.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/143564079695220/permalink/1100494260668859/
I did see this one but apparantly he race that engine before taking it off his 2...so?????

Dev

Quote from: AJRFulton on September 15, 2022, 12:58The 2ZZ seems to fare a lot worse than say, the K20 - and not just in swapped cars. The 2ZZ's track record with cars where it is the OEM engine isn't great either. But as said Lotus application doesn't seem to have the same issues.

Mostly seems to be oil starvation issues with the 2ZZ, and even taking the precautions (sump/pump/etc) doesn't eliminate that. I've had 2 oil starvation failures, and I've did everything short of a dry sump to prevent it! I personally know of 5x 2ZZ's (3x MR2's, a Corolla and an Elise) that have went bang at the same long right hander at Croft, all with spinning a bearing, all with baffled sumps as a minimum.

Although I think a street car application the 2ZZ is absolutely fine.

 When the 2ZZ swaps became popular during 2006 the engines were sourced from very low millage donor cars.
These engines were very reliable. I have one of those engines in my car and it has zero issues even though I take it into lift every chance I get. The important take away is you need to start with a good one and maintain it.
 After around 2012 many abused 2ZZ engines found their way into the market because of second hand drivers that abused these engines as the cars that had them became afordable. A comparable 1ZZ engine probably lived a better life because they are least likely to be abused since they are used for general transportation.
 The k20 on the other hand is probably built so well that even an abused one can still be viable. 
 If all you do is street driving a 2ZZ can last a very long time going generously into lift without worry.

 If my 2ZZ were to give up I would pay a premium for the best example I could find just to avoid these issues giving the 2ZZ a bad reputation.


threepot

I spent quite alot of time chasing firms to import me a nice JDM front cut celica but got nowhere.

You can import a full celica on the jap auctions for about £3000, and then you get a really nice clean engine. Expensive donor though.

I suspect when mine goes pop that I'll put a Toyota v6 of some sort in it, it'd be much easier than having to be working the gears so hard to keep on cam 2zz style. Effortless power - nice note too.

J88TEO

In my home country, the breakers always have front cuts from Japan...you can start the engine...and they are warranted too.

Alex Knight

#31
You only hear about engines that blow up. You never hear about the good ones that just keep going, because it's not newsworthy.

This is the human condition, and it's worth thinking about.

pistol pete

My 2zz had 170k miles on it when I removed it from the celica, I'm sure it had been thrash
It survived 2 years of very hard abuse on track.  It only died due to my own fault with oil level issue

pistol pete

Quote from: AJRFulton on September 15, 2022, 12:58The 2ZZ seems to fare a lot worse than say, the K20 - and not just in swapped cars. The 2ZZ's track record with cars where it is the OEM engine isn't great either. But as said Lotus application doesn't seem to have the same issues.

Mostly seems to be oil starvation issues with the 2ZZ, and even taking the precautions (sump/pump/etc) doesn't eliminate that. I've had 2 oil starvation failures, and I've did everything short of a dry sump to prevent it! I personally know of 5x 2ZZ's (3x MR2's, a Corolla and an Elise) that have went bang at the same long right hander at Croft, all with spinning a bearing, all with baffled sumps as a minimum.

Although I think a street car application the 2ZZ is absolutely fine.

Mine went bang on the long right hander at Anglesey.. I haven't don't the pump but did have baffled sumo. But also believed it was over filled with oil.

Dev

I just got back from a large car meet where I was meeting another MR-S owner. The 2ZZ discussion came up with those that were hanging around my car. An S2k owner was mentioning that he enjoys the sound of the 2ZZ over his S2k because the clear lift differentiation in both sound and power. He mentioned that the S2k is nearly seamless and boring. 

 Even though the 2ZZ does not give you forced induction torque like power there is something about its character that makes going with this option feel premium. The short stroke engine with the right exhaust sounds exotic and the engine feels smoother and quieter mechanically than the 1ZZ especially at idle.