Tyres - yes sorry!

Started by Craigjm, October 23, 2022, 11:14

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Craigjm

The new to me car needs two rear tyres. The stack of invoices show that previous owners have been buying original fit Bridgstones from Toyota at £190 a corner for every change since the day it was registered. I am not a fan of the Bridgestones to be fair so I will change all four. I have two questions having done some looking online yesterday -

The car currently has 185/55r15 on the front and 215/45r16 on the rear - are they the right size?
If they are the right size im struggling to find a matching set of anything at any of the major fitters or mobile fitters. I can find Yokohama AD08RS and Avon ZV7 (yuk) in matching pairs but struggling for anything else.

What do you have fitted and where did you get them?

puma2

 :) the big question and a can of worms,
there is tyre thread with lots of advice and different  choices on it.

the size is std size and Bridgestone was from new factory fit.

the problem now is finding the full set in that size
i went for falkens eco 310 others are listed on tyre thread.

enjoy shopping around for the best price and deal i love that as well  :))  :))   

puma2

Quote from: puma2 on October 23, 2022, 11:23:) the big question and a can of worms,
there is tyre thread with lots of advice and different  choices on it.

the size is std size and Bridgestone was from new factory fit.

the problem now is finding the full set in that size
i went for falkens eco 310 others are listed on tyre thread.

enjoy shopping around for the best price and deal i love that as well  :))  :))   

on top of this page tyre thread :))

Carolyn

Nankang NS20.  215 15 16 rear ad 195 55 15 front.  Next time I'll put 195 50 on the front, the 55s are a bit tall..

It's not manufacturer spec for the front. but they do seem to work very well.

Very affordable, quite sticky, and good in the wet.

More will be along in a 'mo with their recomendations.
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=63866.0

Craigjm

Its matching sets that I am finding quite hard to find. I always fit Michelin Pilot Sport or Goodyear Eagles on my other cars depending on what they are but neither seem to be available as a full set for the MR2 I guess because the 15 inch fronts are tiny by todays standards.

Iain

#5
195/50/15s up front works perfectly well and should open a few more options.

Michelin do them in the PS3 in that size, i have them on mine. Pricey tyre but worth it, been very happy with mine and still going strong after numerous track days on them.

Whatever your budget and planned use, theres a tyre out there that'll do the job, and people will have good and bad reviews about pretty much all of them.

Joesson


Craigjm

Quote from: Iain on October 23, 2022, 11:54195/50/15s up front works perfectly well and should open a few more options.

Michelin do them in the PS3 in that size, i have them on mine. Pricey tyre but worth it, been very happy with mine and still going strong after numerous track days on them.

Whatever your budget and planned use, theres a tyre out there that'll do the job, and people will have good and bad reviews about pretty much all of them.

OK so that opens up Michelin MPS3 for £410 a set all round. Im good with that. Have you got any other suspension mods on yours? I am thinking at some point I might drop mine with Tien springs. So you dont get any rubbing with the 10mm wider width? rides OK with the shorter tyre wall?

Iain

Quote from: Craigjm on October 23, 2022, 14:29OK so that opens up Michelin MPS3 for £410 a set all round. Im good with that. Have you got any other suspension mods on yours? I am thinking at some point I might drop mine with Tien springs. So you dont get any rubbing with the 10mm wider width? rides OK with the shorter tyre wall?


Ive been lowered on eibach springs and now on coilovers, zero issues with rubbing, still plenty of room. Shorter tyre wall is fine aswell.

Gaz mr-s

Usually cheapest for Hankook k125 Prime 3 is Camskill, £370 delivered for FL sizes.  There is a newer Prime 4, but not made in the 15" size.

Craigjm

Quote from: Iain on October 23, 2022, 16:34Ive been lowered on eibach springs and now on coilovers, zero issues with rubbing, still plenty of room. Shorter tyre wall is fine aswell.

Great that's decision made then. I have MPS4S on another car I have and they are excellent so slight change to front size and MPS3 all round. Happy with that.

Thanks everyone

Ardent

@Craigjm

Did not take long to discover the joys of trying to finding a matching set of tyres.
For reference, you should find a small sticker in the bottom of the glove box. That will give you what the wheel and tyre sizes should be. The good news, you will not be able to obtain Bridgestones even if you wanted to. Long ceased production.
I have had the falkens that @puma2 refers to and I think @Chilli Girl is on them now.
I am currently running Rainsports as they where to closest match to OEM as I could find at the time.
Next time, intend to go for Yoko Fleva's.

Petrus

Quote from: Ardent on October 23, 2022, 22:18Next time, intend to go for Yoko Fleva's.

Be aware they have softer sidewalls for more comfort, the down side (for some) being just that wee bit less responsiveness/feedback.


1979scotte

You've seemed to have made up your mind quickly which is good.
I've no idea what I would buy these days tbh since my favourite yoko was discontinued.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Free Ukraine 🇺🇦

Petrus

Quote from: 1979scotte on October 24, 2022, 10:35I've no idea what I would buy these days tbh since my favourite yoko was discontinued.

I find the ´S´ not different on the road. The new rear one have more grip than the used front ´originals´. Even though they still have half the thread depth may replace them for the ´inferior´ successor.
The imo best property, the predictability, has not changed.

Dev

#15
Quote from: Craigjm on October 23, 2022, 11:14I am not a fan of the Bridgestones

 Bridgestones tires are like any other brand where you can have a bad experience with one model but on the whole they are a top tier tire brand. It is possible that you have tires that have already expired well past their date as these tires were discontinued a good while back and therefore the rubber has hardened.

 The original tires for this car was in my opinion the best. They had stiff sidewalls and good characteristics.

Ardent

Quote from: Petrus on October 24, 2022, 08:34Be aware they have softer sidewalls for more comfort, the down side (for some) being just that wee bit less responsiveness/feedback.

 Here we go again. Sidewall stiffness. The missing piece of info on a tyre wall.
Softer compared to what?
Compared to ad08r no doubt. Compared to other brands ?????
Given the fleva is part of the advan range, I am going with, they have something in there, more than the ordinary.
I have the fleva on my daily and very happy with them.
Very different cars granted, but I am the common denominator and I'm happy, which is only the bit that matters.
Which is the same for all of us.
Comes back to, will they be available in oem 15" 185 205 when I need them. ????

Craigjm

Quote from: Dev on October 24, 2022, 19:59Bridgestones tires are like any other brand where you can have a bad experience with one model but on the whole they are a top tier tire brand. It is possible that you have tires that have already expired well past their date as these tires were discontinued a good while back and therefore the rubber has hardened.

 The original tires for this car was in my opinion the best. They had stiff sidewalls and good characteristics.


I have had Bridgestone Potenza as OEM on a Porsche 911 Turbo and on Maserati Quattroporte and had failures on both that were not down to punctures when the tyres were sent back. I'm not saying they are bad tyres they clearly are not. I am just not a fan

Petrus

#18
Quote from: Ardent on October 24, 2022, 21:10Here we go again. Sidewall stiffness. The missing piece of info on a tyre wall.

Hence my remark.

QuoteSofter compared to what?

The OEM tyres.

QuoteCompared to ad08r no doubt.

Those come close to the OEMs in that aspect yes.

QuoteVery different cars granted, but I am the common denominator and I'm happy, which is only the bit that matters.
Which is the same for all of us.

Hence my observation that the softer Flevas may actually suit some better.
It is a more affordably priced one too and should give way better mileage. Yes, thus less ultimate grip. Which may actually be more fun as correctly observed in a different thread. See the OEM fitted rubbers to the original GT86.
The Flevas should be quite predictable.

I expect the Flevas to be available in the current sizes for some time yet as it is a fairly new tyre.

Apart from predictability  I am a sukkuh for stopping distance and the AD08R(S) is very good there.  Even at surprisingly low temps. That said I would not go for them as the first winter choice if I lived in the UK...

Dev

#19
Quote from: Craigjm on October 24, 2022, 21:54I have had Bridgestone Potenza as OEM on a Porsche 911 Turbo and on Maserati Quattroporte and had failures on both that were not down to punctures when the tyres were sent back. I'm not saying they are bad tyres they clearly are not. I am just not a fan

If you had failures on both they are clearly horrible tires and I would not be a fan either. Clearly a manufacturing defect if they cant last.  A lot of times tire failures especially with low profile tires are due to a lack of air pressure for the load which is not what the tire pressure monitor system will tell you especially if the tires are reinforced. Also alignment issues inherent to the cars poor design that is often blamed on the tires.
However as I mentioned there are some model of tire from every good brand that can be off putting even if they were the factory OEM because it depends on the manufacture of the car that works with the manufacture of the tire and I have noticed that most European brands come with factory tires that are not that great including the Michelin tires that came on my BILs Porsche which were recalled and a set of OEM Continental on a BMW that I owned.  I had a less than stellar Bridgestone potenza tires that I bought for my Lexus that were not very good but the replacement I bought and currently have are also Bridgestone are excellent living up to the reputation that I have come to love. When you start looking at bottom tier tire brands that is when you see a pattern of where you get what you pay for.




Ardent

Such a frustrating subject as without any actual numbers, completely subjective.

Ardent. Softer compare to what?
Petrus. OEM
So what was the stiffness of the bridgestone RE040 vs the fleva.
What is the measurement/criteria used? Where is that documented? What are the respective values of each?
Without numbers, means jack all. Even though I agree with you.

I had the RE040 when I bought the car. If available, I would have put back on and avoided the abyss known as tyre choice.
Was happy with the falkens, shifted no end of water when required. Where they as stiff sidewalled? No idea. No number to compare against.
Had a set of AD08R. Stonking comical levels of grip. Cartoon driving on the ceiling and 8g of lateral grip. Comical.
When they were new and part worn.
Towards the end of their life had a childs tri-cycle solid plastic wheels level of grip. But by god the sidewalls were stiff.
Replaced with the  Rainsports. Subjective comparison on sidewalls as I have no sidewall stiffness data to go on.
They are softer, do they have as much grip as the AD08r when they were new? Nowhere near. Way more than the tired AD08r though. Esp. in a damp cold UK.
Grip vs feel. I will freely admit the rainsports lack the precision and feed back I got from the AD08r when new.

But non of this brings me any closer to a consistent/comparison/measureable value of sidewall stiffness.

There are shure ratings for rubber stiffness bushes etc, surely there must be some dark corner of the tyre world that can provide a value of sorts.

I choose tyres as close to OEM as possible load rating speed rating everything.
But even so, a load rating of 81 on a choice of tyres does not equate to the same "feel" in terms of side wall stiffness.

Frustrating.
 


Petrus

Quote from: Ardent on October 24, 2022, 23:54Such a frustrating subject as without any actual numbers, completely subjective.

There is indeed no criterium for the sidewall stiffness.

Also we in generally have no proper comparison ourselves either because we do not go in/out of the tyre shop and test ceteris paribus.
In my previous life in the previous century I did on racing bikes. One ´test´ factor was how precise you could choose and keep a line. Same thing car tyres on the road albeit without the opportunity to go in swap and repeat.

If we could we would find that ´comfort´ as to factors apart from tyre pressure. The compliance of the tread and ditto sidewall. The directional stability mainly the sidewall.
The tread compliance also has a lot to do with how loud/silent the tyre is.

Back to ´but hów´?! it is again aiming for a target/line on the road.
You can emulate that with too low and too high tyre pressure.
The difference will be akin concrete in the frump and empty.

As I have written before, I use the local industrial estate for simple Q&D comparisons. Tarmac joints, sewage covers, specific cracks etc. are useful markers. Same gear same revs and try do the same line. Does not need to be all thát fast*, not ón the limit, just fast enough to need an effort. Makes for comparisons of bracings too.

Back to tyres it all depends on the use and what you expect. For mé in the MR2 the stopping distance has the most weight. Though I try to behave like a gentleman in traffic (and where there´s houses) I do like to push the thing when there is none. Regardless of traffic/none there are and will be the unexpected and extra grip is extra margin.
With the mileage I do and the satisfaction I expect I am prepared to spend the money on the best rubber.
Yes, as we discussed earlier, you are totally spot on with the AD08Rs heat cycling out. The used fronts on mine ´slide´ where the rears used to first.

Anyway, the ´testing/comparing´ I mention is part of the fun for me.



* even at surprisingly low speeds the rubber deforms in corners. Like in underground parking garages the surface can cause squeeling at almost walking pace! The squeeling is deformation/slip. Tyres will deform and slip; have a slip angle at any speed. This is a function of the stiffness of tread/sidewall and grip of the compound.
As such the comparison speed does not need be all thát high.  Obviously the higher the speed, the lager the difference but the load on everything may mask the difference of what you want to notice.

Dev

Quote from: Ardent on October 24, 2022, 21:10Here we go again. Sidewall stiffness. The missing piece of info on a tyre wall.
Softer compared to what?
Compared to ad08r no doubt. Compared to other brands ?????
Given the fleva is part of the advan range, I am going with, they have something in there, more than the ordinary.
I have the fleva on my daily and very happy with them.
Very different cars granted, but I am the common denominator and I'm happy, which is only the bit that matters.
Which is the same for all of us.
Comes back to, will they be available in oem 15" 185 205 when I need them. ????

 Most newer owners do not have a bases of comparison. Some think all seasons are good enough. Some think their tire choice is the best one based on nothing more than the feel of new tires over the old ones that are replaced.
 I am not a racer but I know what I like as a hardcore focused enthusiast that loves to push my car and enjoy  all of its aspects particularly feel. My bases of comparison is OEM and how much of it Toyota got it right. 
 
  I can tell you the best way to know which tire has stiffer side walls is to do a deep search. I used Grassroots motorsports which is a forum for AutoX event people and they talk incessantly about tire sidewall stiffness.
 I made a few mistakes choosing the wrong tires until one tire has an overwhelming consensus of having stiff side walls even by professional reviewers. This was a set of relabeled Bridgestone RE003 that is only available in Asia and Australia for some reason. If they introduced them to your market It would be a hit.
These tires feel exactly like OEM but with a little more grip and feel. I could be driving straight and still feel the suspension working which is very gokart like.

Regarding the Flevas. If they are anything like the S drive they don't have stiff side walls like the OEM however they are not so soft to complain about and make it up in having very good road feel. I actually liked them and could live with them which is saying a lot compared to many other tires I have gone though.
 

1979scotte

Re003 are well thought of in Aus no idea why they are region specific
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Free Ukraine 🇺🇦

Petrus

Quote from: 1979scotte on October 25, 2022, 17:42Re003 are well thought of in Aus no idea why they are region specific

Most likely marketing; the´green´labeling. Same reason the AD08R went AD08RS.