Wideband controllers - plugging into Emanage Ultimate - how much to spend

Started by jvanzyl, December 12, 2022, 16:22

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jvanzyl

Hi Folks,
I have myself am innovate LSU 4.9 Wideband, and the old emanage Ultimate. What I need is a controller.

Anyone out there have any experience with LD performance:
https://ldperformance.co.uk/product/wideband-controller-for-bosch-lsu49/

or do you have to spend big bucks on these things:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Innovate-3877-Digital-Wideband-Controller/dp/B00FFTAJPC

As long as the LD Performance one can do what it says on the label, I'm not too sure what I'd be spending all the extra cash on for the Innovate one?
01 Silver 1ZZ<br />The Smile Machine: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=59837

Call the midlife!

For the similar price as the Innovate you can get an AEM complete with gauge, can't see a gauge on the one you linked to?
I imagine the cheaper one will do just what it says on the tin, spend more and you get more features such as limits alarms etc but it depends what you're after.
60% of the time it works everytime...

thetyrant

Do you just have a Wideband 02 sensor that goes in the exhaust but nothing else ?   

Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

Gaz2405

1zz turbo. Home built and home mapped.

Now 2zz turbo. Home built and home mapped

Build thread https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=67004.0

jvanzyl

Quote from: Call the midlife! on December 12, 2022, 16:53For the similar price as the Innovate you can get an AEM complete with gauge, can't see a gauge on the one you linked to?
I imagine the cheaper one will do just what it says on the tin, spend more and you get more features such as limits alarms etc but it depends what you're after.

So here's the thing- if I were to spend that level of cash I'd try and combine it like GFB have here:
https://turbozentrum.co.uk/GFB-G-FORCE-III-electronic-boost-controller-Go-Fast-Bits?gclid=Cj0KCQiA4uCcBhDdARIsAH5jyUmHWHV7CNWiNkBMNVrmwgg-6-_jVRMP4GiWkyVxEgSAC5pldnUP0YkaAs_nEALw_wcB

Basically it's a boost controller that can cut boost when it detects afr going awry.. I'd still need the wide band controller mind.. so I'd end up with the cheap one still!

Quote from: thetyrant on December 13, 2022, 10:10Do you just have a Wideband 02 sensor that goes in the exhaust but nothing else ?   



Yup that's all I have currently.. I've got the cable that goes from the controller to the Emanage as well.

Quote from: Gaz2405 on December 13, 2022, 11:22Does the emanage have a voltage input for the wideband?

Yes- signal and ground. From what I understand I can then use the auto tune functionality.
01 Silver 1ZZ<br />The Smile Machine: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=59837

Gaz2405

I'm not up in the emanage, but the EMU black uses either an on board controller or a 0-5v input (which I use).

The AEM wideband with gauge has a 0-5v output from the back of the gauge, so you get the gauge and a feed to the ECU
1zz turbo. Home built and home mapped.

Now 2zz turbo. Home built and home mapped

Build thread https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=67004.0

thetyrant

I guess it depends how far you want to go but as a minimum you could get away with the controller from LD @ £59 to power up your wideband sensor and connect its 0-5v output to the Emanage input, i would probably add the AFR display for £29 so you can see the AFR live in front of you while driving.

I would not rely on Autotune but datalog and review/change map from that, some Autotune setups can work ok but it has a narrow window usually and often make crazy changes to map due to lack of brain power, so for example for tuning idle fuel mixture or steady cruising maybe it could be ok but its just not really clever enough for normal variable driving even at much higher price point Ecu's than the emanage.

Enjoy :)
Ex-2005 roadster  owner, i will be back :D

threepot

AEM Gauge is very good, and it has the 0-5v analogue output for the linear 10:1 to 20:0... see page 7 of the manual here for the calibration values https://www.aemelectronics.com/files/instructions/30-4110NS%20Digital%20Wideband%20UEGO%20Gauge%20No%20Sensor.pdf

But its the only one I've messed with so take my rating as inexperienced!

I've never messed with a Greddy E-Manage, but you want to look at the software/pdfs to see how the AFR input works on that ECU. See if you can calibrate an ECU input channel to suit the gauges output scaling. You really want to connect the ECU to the wideband as it will make your closed loop control totally peachy - well as long as the exhaust has no leaks etc.

There is alot of hate to the autotune in the industry... but the Ecu Master EMU's autotune/estimated VE tables from data logging function is pretty good! I've seen many more fudged tables done by "experienced pro tuners". The devil is in the detail, getting the initial config correct, calibrating the sensor curves correctly, no leaks etc - tuning around defects is common but makes for poor outcomes.

Call the midlife!

Just bear in mind the looms on the AEM will need extending and you'll need pins for the Emanage terminals possibly as well.
60% of the time it works everytime...

jvanzyl

Quote from: Call the midlife! on December 14, 2022, 10:32Just bear in mind the looms on the AEM will need extending and you'll need pins for the Emanage terminals possibly as well.

Cool ok - I've got the cable that goes from the wideband controller to the emanage

Quote from: thetyrant on December 14, 2022, 10:04I guess it depends how far you want to go but as a minimum you could get away with the controller from LD £59 to power up your wideband sensor and connect its 0-5v output to the Emanage input, i would probably add the AFR display for £29 so you can see the AFR live in front of you while driving.

I would not rely on Autotune but datalog and review/change map from that, some Autotune setups can work ok but it has a narrow window usually and often make crazy changes to map due to lack of brain power, so for example for tuning idle fuel mixture or steady cruising maybe it could be ok but its just not really clever enough for normal variable driving even at much higher price point Ecu's than the emanage.

Enjoy :)

Yeah I'm completely new to tuning... so it's basically going to be a nice learning curve for me. I did like the fail safe thing that the GFB would give by cutting boost if AFR went wrong.. but that is more money..

Quote from: threepot on December 14, 2022, 10:24AEM Gauge is very good, and it has the 0-5v analogue output for the linear 10:1 to 20:0... see page 7 of the manual here for the calibration values https://www.aemelectronics.com/files/instructions/30-4110NS%20Digital%20Wideband%20UEGO%20Gauge%20No%20Sensor.pdf

But its the only one I've messed with so take my rating as inexperienced!

I've never messed with a Greddy E-Manage, but you want to look at the software/pdfs to see how the AFR input works on that ECU. See if you can calibrate an ECU input channel to suit the gauges output scaling. You really want to connect the ECU to the wideband as it will make your closed loop control totally peachy - well as long as the exhaust has no leaks etc.

There is alot of hate to the autotune in the industry... but the Ecu Master EMU's autotune/estimated VE tables from data logging function is pretty good! I've seen many more fudged tables done by "experienced pro tuners". The devil is in the detail, getting the initial config correct, calibrating the sensor curves correctly, no leaks etc - tuning around defects is common but makes for poor outcomes.

Thanks for this, will give it a good go!
01 Silver 1ZZ<br />The Smile Machine: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=59837

threepot

Now this is coming back from way in my mental archive.... the innovate LM-1 has a magic output mode on it where it can simulate a narrow band sensor output, e.g. 0-1v, with the stoich swing in the middle. So it very much has that simulation mode output on its side, which may be helpful to your cause if the E-manage doesn't support wideband inputs. I don't know what Greddy Ultimate can or cannot do. Simulation mode is handy as you can ditch the factory sensor for the original ECU, and thus simulate it instead. No extra boss required.

I'd suggest getting the Greddy Software up and running on a laptop, and have a look at how you configure the oxygen/AFR sensor stuff. Because one may be more useful than the other.

On the other hand, you already have a lambda sensor on the factory ECU which runs a real time closed loop trim, so if the Greddy also ends up with a closed loop trim on a the go, you might find some very weird double echos go on with the two feedback loops. Really before you go too deep down a rabbit hole like this, finding someone who has put the hours in tuning these Greddy piggybacks would tell you the best way to go.

Piggie backs are pretty, erm.. jankie, quirkie, I'm not sure what the best way to describe it?! I don't want to insult them, as they work and used by many. But it's like having one adjustable ECU get back seat driven by another preset factory ECU. There are limitations of what is possible. Sometimes the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.


Carolyn

At the risk of stating the obvious, you're also in need of an Inlet Air Temperature sensor and a Mahifold Air Pressure sensor.
Perry Byrnes Memorial Award 2016, 2018.  Love this club. 
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