Roadster Restomod Build - What would a Toyota Factory 2ZZ Roaster have looked like?

Started by LeEdFollow, January 2, 2023, 09:40

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

LeEdFollow

Being a long time Toyota fan/owner I've always been tempted by a MK3 roadster. And now with the prices as they are and having started a new youtube channel with a friend it seemed like the perfect time to bag a roadster and dial everything up to 11 without it looking modified. We're going for "how would a 2ZZ MR2 Roadster have looked like from the Toyota factory"

Jobs completed as of 1st Jan 2023 -
- Replaced Leaking Cam Cover Gasket
- Service - Genuine Toyota Air Filter and Oil Filter. Fuchs Titan XTR Fully Synth Oil.
- 4x new Yokohama Advan AD08RS tyres in staggered factory 185-55R15/215-45R16 sizes
- Sony Apple CarPlay Stereo, DoubleDin Facia, wiring harness and rev camera (plus switch to control aerial)
- Replaced broken rear wheel stud
- New (fake) TRD Gearknob
- New Expansion tank cap (Was loosing coolant with the old cap)
- New Denso PreCat and PostCat Lambda Sensors
- Rust from frunk all removed, treated and Painted/Primered

Jobs to do -
- Welding on front turrets - booked for this week
- Correct surface rust on the remaining areas of the car and repaint.
- Treat the entire car to cavity wax and undersealer
- Refit all frunk plastics and relocate alarm to outside of frunk to maximise luggage space.
- MTEC Dimpled Grooved Brake Discs
- EBC YellowStuff Front/Rear Pads + new shims and calliper seals
- Braided Brake Hoses, Braided Clutch Hose and DOT 5.1 change
- Malian 2.5" Race Exhaust + Sports Cat
- Cusco Breastplate
- Cusco Front/Rear Braces
- Whiteline ARB's & new droplinks
- Change EPSF Power Steering Fluid
- KYB Shocks/Springs/Top Mounts/DustBoots
- Mevotech Front Lower Arms/Balljoints
- Replace all bushes on rear arms

Future Plans -
- Dyno whilst running factory 1ZZ-FE
- Track Day and set a lap time
- Swap in 2ZZ-GE (Already started to collect parts needed for swap)
- All new gaskets/fluids/belts/mounts/waterpump/uprated oilpump/sparks/coils etc
- Re-Dyno and re-track to see how much power we gained and see how much quicker it is around the same track.

We're already deep into the restoration of this car and if anyone would like to follow our build/progress you can find us on YouTube!

Topdownman

Sounds like a great list!

Just one question, why underseal rather than paint underneath?
"Racing" tax disc holder (binned), Poundland air freshener, (ran out), Annoying cylinder deficiency,  (sorted),
Winner of the Numb bum award 2017
Readers Ride

06 not V6 readers ride

LeEdFollow

Quote from: Topdownman on January  2, 2023, 10:02Sounds like a great list!

Just one question, why underseal rather than paint underneath?

Yes I will be re-painting underneath before undersealing. Sorry I didn't make that clear (modified original post). Always best to put the underseal over paint rather than bare metal if you want it to last.

Gaz2405

1zz turbo. Home built and home mapped.

Now 2zz turbo. Home built and home mapped

Build thread https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=67004.0

puma2

:) that what we like to see some building work going on there.
nice that you have it at in the open on the tube.
hope you enjoy the journey that will never finish  :))  :))  :)) 

LeEdFollow

Quote from: puma2 on January  2, 2023, 10:30:) that what we like to see some building work going on there.
nice that you have it at in the open on the tube.
hope you enjoy the journey that will never finish  :))  :))  :))

Cheers :)

I have to finish it this year I'm afraid as I already have my eye on my next project after this :) lol

Famous last words...

Petrus

Quote from: LeEdFollow on January  2, 2023, 09:40- running factory 1ZZ-FE
- Track Day and set a lap time

- Swap in 2ZZ-GE
- re-track to see how much power we gained and see how much quicker it is around the same track


Thát will be  8)  to see.

JB21

1zz v 2zz laps times wouldn't be as dramatic as you would think for the average track dayer. I'd say <5s at longer tracks like Donington GP and Oulton Park. This gap would come down further at shorter more technical tracks like Three Sisters and Blyton Park.

Just look at the lap times the top 5 1ZZ race series lads are putting in, only a couple of seconds in it versus what I can push out in my 2zz, albeit they are seasoned racing drivers and dont have to drive their cars home, but still its very impressive given the 40-50hp disadvantage, plus they can only run 195F/205R R888's vs what I run of 205F/225R A052's.

tricky1138

Welcome.

Great that you're getting stuck in so quick.

Another read would be to look at @tommyzoom99 readers ride as he has both a highly tuned 1ZZ and 2ZZ car. I'm sure he said the 1ZZ was quicker!
2004 FL, Black, Matt Brace, Team Dynamics Monza R, Tein Springs, TTE Exhaust, heated black leather seats, black leather armrest,  Zunsport grills, Midship front badge,  TRD spoiler, Halo DRLs with LED fogs, large clear wind defector, Krissg kick panels,  small mongos.

threepot

Quote from: JB21 on January  4, 2023, 13:56Just look at the lap times the top 5 1ZZ race series lads are putting in, only a couple of seconds in it versus what I can push out in my 2zz

Maybe it makes a 2 minute lap in a 2zz a bit embarrassing  :))  ;)  Maybe this is fighting talk, but 1:55 has to be possible  :-X  I'd best put my money where my mouth is this summer  :-[

I've often wondered if Mr Danny DC2 Sylvester would try a 2zz car round Oulton, as he had that K swapped car, then raced the MR2's. I'd let him bang some hot laps in my car, but would dent my ego I suspect  :'(

Quote from: LeEdFollow on January  2, 2023, 09:40- MTEC Dimpled Grooved Brake Discs
- EBC BlueStuff Front Pads and Yellowstuff Rear Pads + new shims and calliper seals
- Braided Brake Hoses, Braided Clutch Hose and DOT 5.1 change

You'll find if you dig on here that style of braking combination is what many of us do at first thinking it's good, but then after experience you realise that 70% if the braking is done on the rear of an MR2. If you actually track it, the EBC pads go all melty and don't last very long at all, maybe 2 track days at best. I find the best brakes are just plain disks like Blueprint/Febi, but run some meaty pads like the Carbotech XP's etc. You get considerable more braking power, and the wear rate is only 20% of an EBC yellow so they last ages. There is a braking thread on here where @JB21 tries another brand of performance pad that's a bit cheaper than the carbotechs. Drilled and grooved are blingy style, but they do nothing from what I can tell other than chew up pads and make noise. But I'm only on my 3rd set of braking combination so not exactly a guru on the matter.

LeEdFollow

I did a lot of back to back testing of flat vs grooved vs drilled discs years ago on Evo's, Supra's, Celica GT4's etc and now pretty much swear by grooved discs.

Yes they eat pads faster and generate more heat but you can easily replace pads when at the track (i've toasted a set of pads by the end of a track day morning and fitted new pads for the afternoon before now) and if you can manage the temperatures then I find they have much more bite and a lot less judder.

I know EBC aren't ideal pads for track, but I heard good things about the bluestuff (only ever tried green/red/yellow before and with the exception of yellow they sucked) so I thought i'd start at the bottom, give them a go and work my way up through the pads.

MR2 pads do seem to be surprisingly expensive to me. My DS3000's on my GT86 are massively cheaper than most hardcore MR2 pads lol I guess you dont really see many roadsters out on track days as its not the obvious choice, so they aren't big money spinners for pad manufacturers which pushes up the price of those few hardcore brands.

threepot

With mickey mouse max power pads a groove will probably keep the pad cooler, and scrape away the burnt crusty debris giving a benefit. But once you get into the type of pads with a compound that survive nuclear fallout or space shuttle re-entry temperatures the grooves are just a reduction in disc surface area thus pad contact patch, and also become the focus/concentration point to start the crack.

Pad price is a supply and demand thing... we are the small market niche weirdos.

The (barely used) front pads are cheap because they fit yaris, celica, prius etc so they manufacture them in bulk. Thus you can get blues etc.

Rears are just for us midship rodgering 2 weirdos, and their isn't many of us about. Most MR2's are toodled about by retired folk, someones mum, or hair dressers. (even someones retired mum who is a hairdresser)

jvanzyl

I seem to remember the Spirit MR-S video showing that they didn't bother with anything other than stock discs but got nice pads.. these cars are so light they don't really eat pads/ discs the way the bigger heavier powerful cars do.
01 Silver 1ZZ<br />The Smile Machine: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=59837

JB21

I've always used MTEC dimpled/grooved discs and never had an issue and they last at least 2 years/10-15 track days.

They are cheaper than the likes of Pagid plain discs which I'll only use for plain discs having had bad experiences with budget brands.

I'm now using PBS pro race pads all round and at £250 a full set seem decent value.

I'll be putting them to the test on the 4th of February at Donington GP, then Oulton 11th February.

LeEdFollow

Quote from: threepot on January  4, 2023, 15:59once you get into the type of pads with a compound that survive nuclear fallout or space shuttle re-entry temperatures the grooves are just a reduction in disc surface area thus pad contact patch, and also become the focus/concentration point to start the crack.

If surface divits were for show only then all serious racing big brake kits would not come drilled or grooved or dimpled.

You just need to look at any of the Porsche GT3, Aston Martin GT3 or Ferrari GT3 cars. All have dimpled/grooved etc discs. All Brembo and AP Racing Competition kits are either dimpled/grooved/j-hooked or slotted in some way.

Going back about 8 years ago I was doing lots of disc testing with Carbotech and Performance Friction pads on my Monaro VXR. And even then you could feel the difference between flat surface discs and grooved/slotted/drilled etc. Not massively different on the road (except for noise) but night and day on track. If you dont mind replacing pads more often, the slotted rotors just stopped you noticeably faster and that's probably a combination of biting the pad surface and taking away the gasses created between the pad and disc.

I agree about cracking, but thats only ever happened to me once on drilled discs and for that reason i'd avoid them. But dimpled/slotted i've never had an issue with.

But I'm no expert nor a professional driver. Just a track day nut with heavy feet and probably not enough fear lol

threepot

You are 100% correct, scraping a pad with grooves etc will chew off the glazed surface slightly increasing its friction co-efficiency. BUT at the cost of probably doubling the wear rate of the pad, you say it yourself - "ruthless on pads". Which at almost £500 for a set of carbotech pads is a serious disadvantage to my track day!

I'm aiming for 20 to 25 track days this year, the rate I was wearing yellow stuff rear pads on them grooved dimpled discs (I gave away here free https://www.mr2roc.org/index.php?topic=73532.0 ) , this year I'd be spending close to £1000 just on rear yellow pads alone. But mostly, they stopped pretty shit thus the desire to ante up.

Non of this is fact nor f(r)iction, it's horses for courses.... the carbotechs are not very good brakes from cold - stopping at the end of my driveway the EBC are probably better at occasional use road temperatures. If I were a running yellows sort of user, a grooved disk driving round town isn't going to make any impact other than ascetically on an MR2.

Your example about Porsches, Brembo kits etc... things need to look fast to sell, all the big carbon wings on slow going fast cars in the paddock are plain to see! Painting the calipers red, leaving all the Javelin stickers on the windscreen etc. We've all been and overtook the slow boat rich boys in german lease cars that go pop pop bang bang. It would be hard to sell a £3000 brake kit with boring looking discs. F1 and GTE class cars carbon fibre discs have no grooves.

Your compound upgrade to DS3000 might be having a far greater fricton increase than the effect of the slotted discs that are turning them into dust.

LeEdFollow

Understand what you're saying but even in a full year of track days and touristenfahrten I don't spend £500 on brake pads so happy to let the slotted discs eat them up in exchange for better stopping power.

Alex Knight

Quote from: LeEdFollow on January  4, 2023, 22:51Understand what you're saying but even in a full year of track days and touristenfahrten I don't spend £500 on brake pads so happy to let the slotted discs eat them up in exchange for better stopping power.

That's mental. I couldn't agree less with this philosophy. You must have money to burn.

QuoteCons:

There are not many cons to having a blank rotor. Some drivers have a misconception that they should choose slotted or drilled rotors over blank rotors for superior performance.

https://www.r1concepts.com/blog/how-to-choose-the-right-brake-rotor-pattern-blank-vs-drilled-and-slotted-vs-drilled-only-vs-slotted-only/

LeEdFollow

Quote from: Alex Knight on January  4, 2023, 23:47That's mental. I couldn't agree less with this philosophy. You must have money to burn.

https://www.r1concepts.com/blog/how-to-choose-the-right-brake-rotor-pattern-blank-vs-drilled-and-slotted-vs-drilled-only-vs-slotted-only/

How so? Did you think I was saying I spend £500 a year on pads? Not at all. It was a response to threepot saying a set of carbotech are £500. I dont use carbotech and certainly would never spent so much on brake pads.

I go through on average 1.5-2 sets of quality pads per year across 10-20 track sessions. We're probably talking £200 of pads in exchange for excellent stopping power. I wouldn't say thats "money to burn" when the track days themselves are usually around £200. Seems quite reasonable to me. You spend more than that on fuel just driving to the Nurburgring and back.

Also lets be fair the quote you shared from that link was out of context as you only shared part of that paragraph. The same article goes on to tell you why you would buy slotted/grooved over blank. Here is that full quote -

"There are not many cons to having a blank rotor. Some drivers have a misconception that they should choose slotted or drilled rotors over blank rotors for superior performance. This is not necessarily true, so do not feel the need to select a particular type of brake rotor over the misunderstanding that it is better than another style of brake rotor. It all depends on how you drive your vehicle and how you would like it to stop"

& again same page telling you the benefits of grooved/slotted discs -

"This style of brake rotor delivers improved consistency with every stop, by reducing the friction in the brake pads. Over the long run the slotted rotors also perform well: As the slots shave down glaze from overheated brake pads, they expose fresh material every time you brake. As a result, you can rely on these pads to deliver effective braking even in heavy duty vehicles."

Everyone is welcome to their own opinions of course and no single setup is going to be the best for everyone. But I've done my own hours testing/researching on track and for me I'll always use slotted discs on my track cars as I want maximum stopping power, which I feel I can only get from slotted rotors. Others may choose to use flat/solid discs out on track and that's their choice. But there is science for and against all options :)

shnazzle

I did like the scraping effect that the grooved had. 
I didn't mind because I ran MTEC's finest at 168gbp for a full set of pads and discs.
When I switched to EBC Yellowstuff, it made a hell of a mess! More than other people were saying their yellows would. So I can only assume it was because of the grooved discs.

On one of our other mr2s we put yellows on plain discs. Barely any dust.

Very unscientific and small sample set but it did clearly show a difference between grooved and plain on the same pads and car. I changed pads a lot when I used the MTEC set. Probably once a year. That's a lot to me. 

I didn't mind the yellowstuff. They were great on the road. Never tracked them.

I never had a grooved disc crack, fail, chip. I never had a dimpled fail. Never had a grooved AND dimpled fail.

I never used it on track but to be fair... The way I drove a few years ago I didn't need to. No call for that shit... :)  Good thing I grew up. 
...neutiquam erro.

LeEdFollow

Thanks for the feedback. Sounds like the yellowstuff I bought for the rear of my car wont last long at all.

I'm taking it to Brand Hatch next month (first track day of the year and first one out in the Roadster) so I am now fully expecting the yellow stuff to need replacing after that :) lol

Petrus

btw Lee, you máy be a bit on the optimistic side with 950 kg. for your FL. It is most likely around 1050 depending on how much fuel you have sloshing about.
A simple and clear answer is put it on scales.
The 2ZZ being heavier will ´compensate´ for lightness added.  As to lap times, the gear box is thé crux: The 2ZZ power curve is basically the same as the 1ZZ witch a chunk added, the engine does not realy come into its own on the for it rather long legged 1ZZ gearing.

The restriction in the OEM exhaust is not the bends actually; it is a deliberate constriction in the entry of the flexi 2 - 1 of the mid pipe.

Also you want to think about the intake side. For the 1ZZ, the OEM is best; just replace the elbow/horn at the filter box entry.

For the rest HAVE FUN!!!!

Petrus

Quote from: shnazzle on January  5, 2023, 08:46I never used it on track but to be fair... The way I drove a few years ago I didn't need to. No call for that shit... :)  Good thing I grew up.

HAH... growing up ... no fun in that  :o
Stopped after 23 years of racing when the wife died in an accident. Stopped enduro riding when the gf got pregnant. Then started rallying with the kid as co-pilot. Now waintimg for the third titanium bearing replacement and only going sideways on the local industrial estate. Well, mainly  O:-)
I am not a religeous man but I do remember something at Sunday school about children inheriting The Kingdom of God  :))
Just don´t molest others and dont get caught  ;) 

JB21

Quote from: LeEdFollow on January  5, 2023, 08:51Thanks for the feedback. Sounds like the yellowstuff I bought for the rear of my car wont last long at all.

I'm taking it to Brand Hatch next month (first track day of the year and first one out in the Roadster) so I am now fully expecting the yellow stuff to need replacing after that :) lol

Yellows lasted ages on the rear of mine coupled to MTEC grooved/dimpled discs. Easily 5 days and 500+ road miles and that was running slicks on track. I then changed to Stopetch sport rears and they lasted even longer and had better coefficient, plus they were cheaper.

Everyone's braking style is different hence all the mixed reviews, for me less braking means faster laps hence the pad longevity, others will hang onto the brakes longer creating more heat, thus more wear. There's no right or wrong way to brake, whatever suits your own style.

LeEdFollow

Quote from: JB21 on January  5, 2023, 09:36Yellows lasted ages on the rear of mine coupled to MTEC grooved/dimpled discs. Easily 5 days and 500+ road miles and that was running slicks on track.

Ah ok that sounds promising :) Will see how they hold up and fingers cross they do the business.

Same here on braking style, once I learn a track layout I look to be on the brakes a little as possible but when I am on the brakes at the end of straights I'm on them late and hard lol

Will certainly take me some time to get that confidence in the Roadster. 99% of all my car history is FR, only MR cars I've owned before the Roadster was a Lotus Esprit HC Turbo and an AW11 which both tried to kill me on many occasions lol My brain isn't wired correctly when it comes to anticipating the weight transfer of a car with the engine behind me lol